Burnet (OCT, 1900) · Fowler (1925)
Fowler (1925)
257a ΣΩ.Ἦ πολλὴν χάριν ὀφείλω σοι τῆς Θεαιτήτου γνωρίσεως,
ὦ Θεόδωρε, ἅμα καὶ τῆς τοῦ ξένου.
Soc.Really I am greatly indebted to you, Theodorus, for my acquaintance with Theaetetus and with the Stranger, too.
ΘΕΟ.Τάχα δέ [γε], ὦ Σώκρατες, ὀφειλήσεις ταύτης
τριπλασίαν· ἐπειδὰν τόν τε πολιτικὸν ἀπεργάσωνταί σοι
καὶ τὸν φιλόσοφον.
Theo.Presently, Socrates, you will be three times as much indebted, when they have worked out the statesman and the philosopher for you.
ΣΩ.Εἶεν· οὕτω τοῦτο, ὦ φίλε Θεόδωρε, φήσομεν
ἀκηκοότες εἶναι τοῦ περὶ λογισμοὺς καὶ τὰ γεωμετρικὰ
κρατίστου;
Soc.Indeed! My dear Theodorus, can I believe my ears? Were those really the words of the great calculator and geometrician?
257b ΘΕΟ.Πῶς, ὦ Σώκρατες;
Theo.Why, what do you mean, Socrates?
ΣΩ.Τῶν ἀνδρῶν ἕκαστον θέντος τῆς ἴσης ἀξίας, οἳ τῇ
τιμῇ πλέον ἀλλήλων ἀφεστᾶσιν ἢ κατὰ τὴν ἀναλογίαν τὴν
τῆς ὑμετέρας τέχνης.
Soc.When you rated sophist, statesman, and philosopher at the same value, though they are farther apart in worth than your mathematical proportion can express.
ΘΕΟ.Εὖ γε νὴ τὸν ἡμέτερον θεόν, ὦ Σώκρατες, τὸν
Ἄμμωνα, καὶ δικαίως, καὶ πάνυ μὲν οὖν μνημονικῶς ἐπέπληξάς
μοι τὸ περὶ τοὺς λογισμοὺς ἁμάρτημα. καὶ σὲ μὲν
ἀντὶ τούτων εἰς αὖθις μέτειμι· σὺ δ' ἡμῖν, ὦ ξένε, μηδαμῶς
ἀποκάμῃς χαριζόμενος, ἀλλ' ἑξῆς, εἴτε τὸν πολιτικὸν ἄνδρα
257c πρότερον εἴτε τὸν φιλόσοφον προαιρῇ, προελόμενος διέξελθε.
Theo.By Ammon, our special divinity, that is a good hit, Socrates; evidently you haven’t forgotten your mathematics, and you are quite right in, finding fault with my bad arithmetic. I will get even with you at some other time; but now, Stranger, I turn to you. Do not grow tired of being kind to us, but go on and tell us about the statesman or the philosopher, whichever you prefer to take first.
ΞΕ.Ταῦτ', ὦ Θεόδωρε, ποιητέον· ἐπείπερ ἅπαξ γε
ἐγκεχειρήκαμεν, [καὶ] οὐκ ἀποστατέον πρὶν ἂν αὐτῶν πρὸς
τὸ τέλος ἔλθωμεν. ἀλλὰ γὰρ περὶ Θεαιτήτου τοῦδε τί
χρὴ δρᾶν με;
Str.That is the thing to do, Theodorus, since we have once begun, and we must not stop until we have finished with them. But what shall I do about Theaetetus here?
ΘΕΟ.Τοῦ πέρι;
Theo.In what respect?
ΞΕ.Διαναπαύσωμεν αὐτὸν μεταλαβόντες αὐτοῦ τὸν
συγγυμναστὴν τόνδε Σωκράτη; ἢ πῶς συμβουλεύεις;
Str.Shall we give him a rest and take his schoolmate here, the young Socrates, in his place? What is your advice?
ΘΕΟ.Καθάπερ εἶπες, μεταλάμβανε· νέω γὰρ ὄντε ῥᾷον
οἴσετον πάντα πόνον ἀναπαυομένω.
Theo.Make the change as you suggest. They are young, and if they have a chance to rest by turns, they will bear any labor better.
257d ΣΩ.Καὶ μὴν κινδυνεύετον, ὦ ξένε, ἄμφω ποθὲν ἐμοὶ
συγγένειαν ἔχειν τινά. τὸν μέν γε οὖν ὑμεῖς κατὰ τὴν τοῦ
προσώπου φύσιν ὅμοιον ἐμοὶ φαίνεσθαί φατε, τοῦ δ' ἡμῖν ἡ
258a κλῆσις ὁμώνυμος οὖσα καὶ ἡ πρόσρησις παρέχεταί τινα
οἰκειότητα. δεῖ δὴ τούς γε συγγενεῖς ἡμᾶς ἀεὶ προθύμως
διὰ λόγων ἀναγνωρίζειν. Θεαιτήτῳ μὲν οὖν αὐτός τε συνέμειξα
χθὲς διὰ λόγων καὶ νῦν ἀκήκοα ἀποκρινομένου, Σωκράτους
δὲ οὐδέτερα· δεῖ δὲ σκέψασθαι καὶ τοῦτον. ἐμοὶ
μὲν οὖν εἰς αὖθις, σοὶ δὲ νῦν ἀποκρινέσθω.
Soc.And besides, Stranger, it seems to me that they are both related to me after a fashion;
one of them anyhow, as you say, looks like me in his cast of countenance, and the other has the same name and appellation, which implies some sort of kinship. Of course we ought always to be eager to get acquainted with our relatives by debating with them. Now I myself had an argument with Theaetetus yesterday and have been listening to his answers just now, but I do not know Socrates in either way and must examine him, too. But let him reply to you now; my turn will come by and by.
ΞΕ.Ταῦτ' ἔσται. ὦ Σώκρατες, ἀκούεις δὴ Σωκράτους;
Str.Very well; Socrates, do you hear what Socrates says?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ναί.
Y. Soc.Yes.
ΞΕ.Συγχωρεῖς οὖν οἷς λέγει;
Str.And do you agree?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πάνυ μὲν οὖν.
Y. Soc.Certainly.
258b ΞΕ.Οὐ τὰ σὰ κωλύειν φαίνεται, δεῖ δὲ ἴσως ἔτι ἧττον
τἀμὰ διακωλύειν. ἀλλὰ δὴ μετὰ τὸν σοφιστὴν ἀναγκαῖον, ὡς
ἐμοὶ φαίνεται, πολιτικὸν [τὸν ἄνδρα] διαζητεῖν νῷν· καί μοι λέγε
πότερον τῶν ἐπιστημόνων τιν' ἡμῖν καὶ τοῦτον θετέον, ἢ πῶς;
Str.There seems to be no objection on your part, and I suppose there should be still less on mine. Well, then, after the sophist, I think it is our next duty to seek for the statesman; so please tell me: should we rank him also among those who have a science, or not?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Οὕτως.
Y. Soc.Yes.
ΞΕ.Τὰς ἐπιστήμας ἄρα διαληπτέον, ὥσπερ ἡνίκα τὸν
πρότερον ἐσκοποῦμεν;
Str.Must the sciences, then, be divided as when we were examining the sophist?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τάχ' ἄν.
Y. Soc.Perhaps.
ΞΕ.Οὐ μὲν δὴ κατὰ ταὐτόν γε, ὦ Σώκρατες, φαίνεταί
μοι τμῆμα.
Str.In that case, Socrates, I think the division will not be along the same lines.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τί μήν;
Y. Soc.How will it be?
258c ΞΕ.Κατ' ἄλλο.
Str.Along other lines.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ἔοικέν γε.
Y. Soc.Very likely.
ΞΕ.Τὴν οὖν πολιτικὴν ἀτραπὸν πῇ τις ἀνευρήσει;
δεῖ γὰρ αὐτὴν ἀνευρεῖν, καὶ χωρὶς ἀφελόντας ἀπὸ τῶν
ἄλλων ἰδέαν αὐτῇ μίαν ἐπισφραγίσασθαι, καὶ ταῖς ἄλλαις
ἐκτροπαῖς ἓν ἄλλο εἶδος ἐπισημηναμένους πάσας τὰς
ἐπιστήμας ὡς οὔσας δύο εἴδη διανοηθῆναι τὴν ψυχὴν ἡμῶν
ποιῆσαι.
Str.Where, then, shall we find the statesman’s path? For we must find it, separate it from the rest, and imprint upon it the seal of a single class; then we must set the mark of another single class upon all the other paths that lead away from this, and make our soul conceive of all sciences as of two classes.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τοῦτ' ἤδη σὸν οἶμαι τὸ ἔργον, ὦ ξένε, ἀλλ'
οὐκ ἐμὸν γίγνεται.
Y. Soc.This, Stranger, is now your affair, I think, not mine.
258d ΞΕ.Δεῖ γε μήν, ὦ Σώκρατες, αὐτὸ εἶναι καὶ σόν, ὅταν
ἐμφανὲς ἡμῖν γένηται.
Str.And yet, Socrates, it must be your affair, too, when we have found the path.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Καλῶς εἶπες.
Y. Soc.Quite true.
ΞΕ.Ἆρ' οὖν οὐκ ἀριθμητικὴ μὲν καί τινες ἕτεραι ταύτῃ
συγγενεῖς τέχναι ψιλαὶ τῶν πράξεών εἰσι, τὸ δὲ γνῶναι
παρέσχοντο μόνον;
Str.Are not arithmetic and certain other kindred arts pure sciences, without regard to practical application, which merely furnish knowledge?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ἔστιν οὕτως.
Y. Soc.Yes, they are.
ΞΕ.Αἱ δέ γε περὶ τεκτονικὴν αὖ καὶ σύμπασαν χειρουργίαν
ὥσπερ ἐν ταῖς πράξεσιν ἐνοῦσαν σύμφυτον τὴν
258e ἐπιστήμην κέκτηνται, καὶ συναποτελοῦσι τὰ γιγνόμενα ὑπ'
αὐτῶν σώματα πρότερον οὐκ ὄντα.
Str.But the science possessed by the arts relating to carpentering and to handicraft in general is inherent in their application, and with its aid they create objects which did not previously exist.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τί μήν;
Y. Soc.To be sure.
ΞΕ.Ταύτῃ τοίνυν συμπάσας ἐπιστήμας διαίρει, τὴν μὲν
πρακτικὴν προσειπών, τὴν δὲ μόνον γνωστικήν.
Str.In this way, then, divide all science into two arts, calling the one practical, and the other purely intellectual.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ἔστω σοι ταῦθ' ὡς μιᾶς ἐπιστήμης τῆς ὅλης
εἴδη δύο.
Y. Soc.Let us assume that all science is one and that these are its two forms.
ΞΕ.Πότερον οὖν τὸν πολιτικὸν καὶ βασιλέα καὶ
δεσπότην καὶ ἔτ' οἰκονόμον θήσομεν ὡς ἓν πάντα ταῦτα
προσαγορεύοντες, ἢ τοσαύτας τέχνας αὐτὰς εἶναι φῶμεν
ὅσαπερ ὀνόματα ἐρρήθη; μᾶλλον δέ μοι δεῦρο ἕπου.
Str.Shall we then assume that the statesman, king, master, and householder too, for that matter, are all one, to be grouped under one title, or shall we say that there are as many arts as names? But let me rather help you to understand in this way.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῇ;
Y. Soc.In what way?
259a ΞΕ.Τῇδε. εἴ τῴ τις τῶν δημοσιευόντων ἰατρῶν ἱκανὸς
συμβουλεύειν ἰδιωτεύων αὐτός, ἆρ' οὐκ ἀναγκαῖον αὐτῷ
προσαγορεύεσθαι τοὔνομα τῆς τέχνης ταὐτὸν ὅπερ ᾧ συμβουλεύει;
Str.By this example: If anyone, though himself in private station, is able to advise one of the public physicians, must not his art be called by the same name as that of the man whom he advises?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ναί.
Y. Soc.Yes.
ΞΕ.Τί δ'; ὅστις βασιλεύοντι χώρας ἀνδρὶ παραινεῖν
δεινὸς ἰδιώτης ὢν αὐτός, ἆρ' οὐ φήσομεν ἔχειν αὐτὸν τὴν
ἐπιστήμην ἣν ἔδει τὸν ἄρχοντα αὐτὸν κεκτῆσθαι;
Str.Well, then, if a man who is himself in private station is wise enough to advise him who is king of a country, shall we not say that he has the science which the ruler himself ought to possess?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Φήσομεν.
Y. Soc.We shall.
259b ΞΕ.Ἀλλὰ μὴν ἥ γε ἀληθινοῦ βασιλέως βασιλική;
Str.But certainly the science of a true king is kingly science?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ναί.
Y. Soc.Yes.
ΞΕ.Ταύτην δὲ ὁ κεκτημένος οὐκ, ἄντε ἄρχων ἄντε
ἰδιώτης ὢν τυγχάνῃ, πάντως κατά γε τὴν τέχνην αὐτὴν
βασιλικὸς ὀρθῶς προσρηθήσεται;
Str.And will not he who possesses this science, whether he happen to be a ruler or a private citizen, rightly be called kingly, when considered purely with reference to his art?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Δίκαιον γοῦν.
Y. Soc.At least he has a right to be.
ΞΕ.Καὶ μὴν οἰκονόμος γε καὶ δεσπότης ταὐτόν.
Str.And surely the householder and the master of a family are the same.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τί μήν;
Y. Soc.Yes, of course.
ΞΕ.Τί δέ; μεγάλης σχῆμα οἰκήσεως ἢ σμικρᾶς αὖ
πόλεως ὄγκος μῶν τι πρὸς ἀρχὴν διοίσετον;
Str.Well, so far as government is concerned, is there any difference between the grandeur of a large house and the majesty of a small state?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Οὐδέν.
Y. Soc.No.
259c ΞΕ.Οὐκοῦν, ὃ νυνδὴ διεσκοπούμεθα, φανερὸν ὡς ἐπιστήμη
μία περὶ πάντ' ἐστὶ ταῦτα· ταύτην δὲ εἴτε βασιλικὴν
εἴτε πολιτικὴν εἴτε οἰκονομικήν τις ὀνομάζει, μηδὲν αὐτῷ
διαφερώμεθα.
Str.Then as for the point we were just discussing, it is clear that all these are the objects of one science, and whether a man calls this the art of kingship or statesmanship or householding, let us not quarrel with him.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τί γάρ;
Y. Soc.By no means.
ΞΕ.Ἀλλὰ μὴν τόδε γε δῆλον, ὡς βασιλεὺς ἅπας χερσὶ
καὶ σύμπαντι τῷ σώματι σμίκρ' ἄττα εἰς τὸ κατέχειν τὴν
ἀρχὴν δύναται πρὸς τὴν τῆς ψυχῆς σύνεσιν καὶ ῥώμην.
Str.But this is plain, that any king can do little with his hands or his whole body toward holding his position, compared with what he can do with the sagacity and strength of his soul.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Δῆλον.
Y. Soc.Yes, that is plain.
ΞΕ.Τῆς δὴ γνωστικῆς μᾶλλον ἢ τῆς χειροτεχνικῆς καὶ
259d ὅλως πρακτικῆς βούλει τὸν βασιλέα φῶμεν οἰκειότερον εἶναι;
Str.Shall we say, then, that the king is more akin to the intellectual than to the manual or the practical in general?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τί μήν;
Y. Soc.Certainly.
ΞΕ.Τὴν ἄρα πολιτικὴν καὶ πολιτικὸν καὶ βασιλικὴν καὶ
βασιλικὸν εἰς ταὐτὸν ὡς ἓν πάντα ταῦτα συνθήσομεν;
Str.Shall we, therefore, put all these together as one—the political art and the statesman, the royal art and the king?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Δῆλον.
Y. Soc.Obviously.
ΞΕ.Οὐκοῦν πορευοίμεθ' ἂν ἑξῆς, εἰ μετὰ ταῦτα τὴν
γνωστικὴν διοριζοίμεθα;
Str.Then we should be proceeding in due order if we should next divide intellectual science?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πάνυ γε.
Y. Soc.Certainly.
ΞΕ.Πρόσεχε δὴ τὸν νοῦν ἂν ἄρα ἐν αὐτῇ τινα διαφυὴν
κατανοήσωμεν.
Str.Now pay attention to see if we can perceive any natural line of cleavage in it.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Φράζε ποίαν.
Y. Soc.Tell us of what sort it is.
259e ΞΕ.Τοιάνδε. λογιστική πού τις ἡμῖν ἦν τέχνη.
Str.Of this sort. We recognized a sort of art of calculation.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ναί.
Y. Soc.Yes.
ΞΕ.Τῶν γνωστικῶν γε οἶμαι παντάπασι τεχνῶν.
Str.It is, I suppose, most certainly one of the intellectual arts.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς δ' οὔ;
Y. Soc.Of course.
ΞΕ.Γνούσῃ δὴ λογιστικῇ τὴν ἐν τοῖς ἀριθμοῖς διαφορὰν
μῶν τι πλέον ἔργον δώσομεν ἢ τὰ γνωσθέντα κρῖναι;
Str.And shall we grant to the art of calculation, when it has found out the difference between numbers, any further function than that of passing judgement on them when found out?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τί μήν;
Y. Soc.No, certainly not.
ΞΕ.Καὶ γὰρ ἀρχιτέκτων γε πᾶς οὐκ αὐτὸς ἐργατικὸς
ἀλλ' ἐργατῶν ἄρχων.
Str.Every architect, too, is a ruler of workmen, not a workman himself.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ναί.
Y. Soc.Yes.
ΞΕ.Παρεχόμενός γέ που γνῶσιν ἀλλ' οὐ χειρουργίαν.
Str.As supplying knowledge, not manual labor.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Οὕτως.
Y. Soc.True.
260a ΞΕ.Δικαίως δὴ μετέχειν ἂν λέγοιτο τῆς γνωστικῆς
ἐπιστήμης.
Str.So he may fairly be said to participate in intellectual science.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πάνυ γε.
Y. Soc.Certainly.
ΞΕ.Τούτῳ δέ γε οἶμαι προσήκει κρίναντι μὴ τέλος
ἔχειν μηδ' ἀπηλλάχθαι, καθάπερ ὁ λογιστὴς ἀπήλλακτο,
προστάττειν δὲ ἑκάστοις τῶν ἐργατῶν τό γε πρόσφορον ἕως
ἂν ἀπεργάσωνται τὸ προσταχθέν.
Str.But it is his business, I suppose, not to pass judgement and be done with it and go away, as the calculator did, but to give each of the workmen the proper orders, until they have finished their appointed task.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ὀρθῶς.
Y. Soc.You are right.
ΞΕ.Οὐκοῦν γνωστικαὶ μὲν αἵ τε τοιαῦται σύμπασαι καὶ
ὁπόσαι συνέπονται τῇ λογιστικῇ, κρίσει δὲ καὶ ἐπιτάξει
260b διαφέρετον ἀλλήλοιν τούτω τὼ γένη;
Str.Then all such sciences, and all those that are in the class with calculating, are alike intellectual sciences, but these two classes differ from one another in the matter of judging and commanding. Am I right?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Φαίνεσθον.
Y. Soc.I think so.
ΞΕ.Ἆρ' οὖν συμπάσης τῆς γνωστικῆς εἰ τὸ μὲν ἐπιτακτικὸν
μέρος, τὸ δὲ κριτικὸν διαιρούμενοι προσείποιμεν,
ἐμμελῶς ἂν φαῖμεν διῃρῆσθαι;
Str.Then if we bisected intellectual science as a whole and called one part the commanding and the other the judging part, might we say we had made fitting division?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Κατά γε τὴν ἐμὴν δόξαν.
Y. Soc.Yes, in my opinion.
ΞΕ.Ἀλλὰ μὴν τοῖς γε κοινῇ τι πράττουσιν ἀγαπητὸν
ὁμονοεῖν.
Str.And surely when men are doing anything in common it is pleasant for them to agree.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς δ' οὔ;
Y. Soc.Of course it is.
ΞΕ.Τούτου τοίνυν μέχριπερ ἂν αὐτοὶ κοινωνῶμεν, ἐατέον
τά γε τῶν ἄλλων δοξάσματα χαίρειν.
Str.On this point, then, so long as we ourselves are in agreement, we need not bother about the opinions of others.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τί μήν;
Y. Soc.Of course not.
260c ΞΕ.Φέρε δή, τούτοιν τοῖν τέχναιν ἡμῖν τὸν βασιλικὸν
ἐν ποτέρᾳ θετέον; ἆρ' ἐν τῇ κριτικῇ, καθάπερ τινὰ θεατήν,
ἢ μᾶλλον τῆς ἐπιτακτικῆς ὡς ὄντα αὐτὸν τέχνης θήσομεν,
δεσπόζοντά γε;
Str.Now to which of these two classes is the kingly man to be assigned? Shall we assign him to the art of judging, as a kind of spectator, or rather to the art of commanding, inasmuch as he is a ruler?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς γὰρ οὐ μᾶλλον;
Y. Soc.Rather to the latter, of course.
ΞΕ.Τὴν ἐπιτακτικὴν δὴ τέχνην πάλιν ἂν εἴη θεατέον
εἴ πῃ διέστηκεν. καί μοι δοκεῖ τῇδέ πῃ, καθάπερ ἡ τῶν
καπήλων τέχνη τῆς τῶν αὐτοπωλῶν διώρισται τέχνης, καὶ
260d τὸ βασιλικὸν γένος ἔοικεν ἀπὸ τοῦ τῶν κηρύκων γένους
ἀφωρίσθαι.
Str.Then once more we must see whether the art of command falls into two divisions. It seems to me that it does, and I think there is much the same distinction between the kingly class and the class of heralds as between the art of men who sell what they themselves produce and that of retail dealers.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς;
Y. Soc.How so?
ΞΕ.Πωληθέντα που πρότερον ἔργα ἀλλότρια παραδεχόμενοι
δεύτερον πωλοῦσι πάλιν οἱ κάπηλοι.
Str.Retail dealers receive and sell over again the productions of others, which have generally been sold before.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πάνυ μὲν οὖν.
Y. Soc.Certainly.
ΞΕ.Οὐκοῦν καὶ τὸ κηρυκικὸν φῦλον ἐπιταχθέντ' ἀλλότρια
νοήματα παραδεχόμενον αὐτὸ δεύτερον ἐπιτάττει πάλιν
ἑτέροις.
Str.And in like manner heralds receive the purposes of others in the form of orders, and then give the orders a second time to others.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ἀληθέστατα.
Y. Soc.Very true.
ΞΕ.Τί οὖν; εἰς ταὐτὸν μείξομεν βασιλικὴν ἑρμηνευτικῇ,
260e κελευστικῇ, μαντικῇ, κηρυκικῇ, καὶ πολλαῖς ἑτέραις τούτων
τέχναις συγγενέσιν, αἳ σύμπασαι τό γ' ἐπιτάττειν ἔχουσιν;
ἢ βούλει, καθάπερ ᾐκάζομεν νυνδή, καὶ τοὔνομα παρεικάσωμεν,
ἐπειδὴ καὶ σχεδὸν ἀνώνυμον ὂν τυγχάνει τὸ τῶν αὐτεπιτακτῶν
γένος, καὶ ταύτῃ ταῦτα διελώμεθα, τὸ μὲν τῶν
βασιλέων γένος εἰς τὴν αὐτεπιτακτικὴν θέντες, τοῦ δὲ ἄλλου
παντὸς ἀμελήσαντες, ὄνομα ἕτερον αὐτοῖς παραχωρήσαντες
θέσθαι τινά; τοῦ γὰρ ἄρχοντος ἕνεκα ἡμῖν ἡ μέθοδος ἦν
261a ἀλλ' οὐχὶ τοῦ ἐναντίου.
Str.Shall we, then, join the art of the king in the same class with the art of the interpreter, the boatswain, the prophet, the herald, and many other kindred arts, all of which involve giving orders? Or, as we just now made a comparison of functions, shall we now by comparison make a name also—since the class of those who issue orders of their own is virtually nameless—and assign kings to the science of giving orders of one’s own, disregarding all the rest and leaving to someone else the task of naming them? For the object of our present quest is the ruler, not his opposite.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πάνυ μὲν οὖν.
Y. Soc.Quite right.
ΞΕ.Οὐκοῦν ἐπειδὴ τοῦτο μετρίως ἀφέστηκεν ἀπ' ἐκείνων,
ἀλλοτριότητι διορισθὲν πρὸς οἰκειότητα, τοῦτο αὐτὸ πάλιν αὖ
διαιρεῖν ἀναγκαῖον, εἴ τινα τομὴν ἔτι ἔχομεν ὑπείκουσαν ἐν
τούτῳ;
Str.Then since a reasonable distinction between this class and the rest has been made, by distinguishing the commands given as one’s own or another’s, shall we again divide this class, if there is in it any further line of section?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πάνυ γε.
Y. Soc.Certainly.
ΞΕ.Καὶ μὴν φαινόμεθα ἔχειν· ἀλλ' ἐπακολουθῶν σύντεμνε.
Str.I think there is one; please help me in making the section.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῇ;
Y. Soc.On what line?
ΞΕ.Πάντας ὁπόσους ἂν ἄρχοντας διανοηθῶμεν ἐπιτάξει
261b προσχρωμένους ἆρ' οὐχ εὑρήσομεν γενέσεώς τινος ἕνεκα
προστάττοντας;
Str.Take the case of all those whom we conceive of as rulers who give commands: shall we not find that they all issue commands for the sake of producing something?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς δ' οὔ;
Y. Soc.Of course.
ΞΕ.Καὶ μὴν τά γε γιγνόμενα πάντα δίχα διαλαβεῖν οὐ
παντάπασι χαλεπόν.
Str.Furthermore it is not at all difficult to divide all that is produced into two classes.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῇ;
Y. Soc.How?
ΞΕ.Τὰ μὲν ἄψυχα αὐτῶν ἐστί που συμπάντων, τὰ δ'
ἔμψυχα.
Str.Of the whole class, some have life and others have no life.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ναί.
Y. Soc.Yes.
ΞΕ.Τούτοις δέ γε αὐτοῖς τὸ τοῦ γνωστικοῦ μέρος
ἐπιτακτικὸν ὄν, εἴπερ βουλόμεθα τέμνειν, τεμοῦμεν.
Str.And on these same lines we may, if we like, make a division of the part of intellectual science which commands.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Κατὰ τί;
Y. Soc.In what way?
ΞΕ.Τὸ μὲν ἐπὶ ταῖς τῶν ἀψύχων γενέσεσιν αὐτοῦ τάττοντες,
261c τὸ δ' ἐπὶ <ταῖς> τῶν ἐμψύχων· καὶ πᾶν οὕτως ἤδη
διαιρήσεται δίχα.
Str.By assigning one part of it to the production of lifeless, the other to that of living objects; and in this way the whole will be divided into two parts.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Παντάπασί γε.
Y. Soc.Certainly.
ΞΕ.Τὸ μὲν τοίνυν αὐτῶν παραλίπωμεν, τὸ δ' ἀναλάβωμεν,
ἀναλαβόντες δὲ μερισώμεθα εἰς δύο τὸ σύμπαν.
Str.Let us then leave one half and take up the other, and then let us divide that entire half into two parts.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Λέγεις δ' αὐτοῖν ἀναληπτέον εἶναι πότερον;
Y. Soc.Which half shall we take up?
ΞΕ.Πάντως που τὸ περὶ τὰ ζῷα ἐπιτακτικόν. οὐ γὰρ
δὴ τό γε τῆς βασιλικῆς ἐπιστήμης ἐστί ποτε τῶν ἀψύχων
ἐπιστατοῦν, οἷον ἀρχιτεκτονικόν, ἀλλὰ γενναιότερον, ἐν τοῖς
261d ζῴοις καὶ περὶ αὐτὰ ταῦτα τὴν δύναμιν ἀεὶ κεκτημένον.
Str.That which issues commands relating to living objects, assuredly. For certainly the science of the king is not, like that of the architect, one which supervises lifeless objects; it is a nobler science, since it exercises its power among living beings and in relation to them alone.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ὀρθῶς.
Y. Soc.True.
ΞΕ.Τήν γε μὴν τῶν ζῴων γένεσιν καὶ τροφὴν τὴν μέν
τις ἂν ἴδοι μονοτροφίαν οὖσαν, τὴν δὲ κοινὴν τῶν ἐν ταῖς
ἀγέλαις θρεμμάτων ἐπιμέλειαν.
Str.Now you may notice that the breeding and nurture of living beings is sometimes the nurture of a single animal and sometimes the common care of creatures in droves.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ὀρθῶς.
Y. Soc.True.
ΞΕ.Ἀλλ' οὐ μὴν τόν γε πολιτικὸν εὑρήσομεν ἰδιοτρόφον,
ὥσπερ βοηλάτην ἤ τινα ἱπποκόμον, ἀλλ' ἱπποφορβῷ τε καὶ
βουφορβῷ μᾶλλον προσεοικότα.
Str.But we shall find that the statesman is not one who tends a single creature, like the driver of a single ox or the groom who tends a horse; he has more resemblance to a man who tends a herd of cattle or a drove of horses.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Φαίνεταί γε δὴ ῥηθὲν νῦν.
Y. Soc.That seems to be true, now that you mention it.
261e ΞΕ.Πότερον οὖν τῆς ζῳοτροφίας τὴν τῶν συμπόλλων
κοινὴν τροφὴν ἀγελαιοτροφίαν ἢ κοινοτροφικήν τινα ὀνομάζομεν;
Str.Shall we call the art of caring for many living creatures the art of tending a herd or something like community management?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ὁπότερον ἂν ἐν τῷ λόγῳ συμβαίνῃ.
Y. Soc.Whichever we happen to say.
ΞΕ.Καλῶς γε, ὦ Σώκρατες· κἂν διαφυλάξῃς τὸ μὴ
σπουδάζειν ἐπὶ τοῖς ὀνόμασιν, πλουσιώτερος εἰς τὸ γῆρας
ἀναφανήσῃ φρονήσεως. νῦν δὲ τοῦτο μέν, καθάπερ διακελεύῃ,
ποιητέον· τὴν δὲ ἀγελαιοτροφικὴν ἆρ' ἐννοεῖς πῇ
262a τις δίδυμον ἀποφήνας τὸ ζητούμενον ἐν διπλασίοισι τὰ νῦν
ἐν τοῖς ἡμίσεσιν εἰς τότε ποιήσει ζητεῖσθαι;
Str.Good, Socrates! If you preserve this attitude of indifference to mere names, you will turn out richer in wisdom when you are old. But now we will, as you suggest, not trouble ourselves about the name; but do you see a way in which a man may show that the art of herding is twofold, and may thereby cause that which is now sought among a double number of things to be sought among half as many?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Προθυμήσομαι. καί μοι δοκεῖ τῶν μὲν ἀνθρώπων
ἑτέρα τις εἶναι, τῶν δ' αὖ θηρίων ἄλλη τροφή.
Y. Soc.I am quite willing to try. I think one kind is the care of men, the other that of beasts.
ΞΕ.Παντάπασί γε προθυμότατα καὶ ἀνδρειότατα διῄρησαι·
μὴ μέντοι τοῦτό γε εἰς αὖθις κατὰ δύναμιν πάσχωμεν.
Str.You made the division with perfect willingness and courage. However, let us do our best not to fall again into your error.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τὸ ποῖον;
Y. Soc.What error?
ΞΕ.Μὴ σμικρὸν μόριον ἓν πρὸς μεγάλα καὶ πολλὰ
262b ἀφαιρῶμεν, μηδὲ εἴδους χωρίς· ἀλλὰ τὸ μέρος ἅμα εἶδος
ἐχέτω. κάλλιστον μὲν γὰρ ἀπὸ τῶν ἄλλων εὐθὺς διαχωρίζειν
τὸ ζητούμενον, ἂν ὀρθῶς ἔχῃ, καθάπερ ὀλίγον σὺ πρότερον
οἰηθεὶς ἔχειν τὴν διαίρεσιν ἐπέσπευσας τὸν λόγον, ἰδὼν ἐπ'
ἀνθρώπους πορευόμενον· ἀλλὰ γάρ, ὦ φίλε, λεπτουργεῖν οὐκ
ἀσφαλές, διὰ μέσων δὲ ἀσφαλέστερον ἰέναι τέμνοντας, καὶ
μᾶλλον ἰδέαις ἄν τις προστυγχάνοι. τοῦτο δὲ διαφέρει τὸ
262c πᾶν πρὸς τὰς ζητήσεις.
Str.We must not take a single small part, and set it off against many large ones, nor disregard species in making our division. On the contrary, the part must be also a species. It is a very fine thing to separate the object of our search at once from everything else, if the separation can be made correctly, and so, just now, you thought you had the right division and you hurried our discussion along, because you saw that it was leading towards man. But, my friend, it is not safe to whittle off shavings; it is safer to proceed by cutting through the middle, and in that way one is more likely to find classes. This makes all the difference in the conduct of research.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς, ὦ ξένε, λέγεις τοῦτο;
Y. Soc.What do you mean by that, Stranger?
ΞΕ.Πειρατέον ἔτι σαφέστερον φράζειν εὐνοίᾳ τῆς σῆς
φύσεως, ὦ Σώκρατες. ἐν τῷ μὲν οὖν παρεστηκότι τὰ νῦν
δηλῶσαι μηδὲν ἐνδεῶς ἀδύνατον· ἐπιχειρητέον δέ τι καὶ
σμικρῷ πλέον αὐτὸ προαγαγεῖν εἰς τὸ πρόσθεν σαφηνείας
ἕνεκα.
Str.I must try to speak still more clearly, Socrates, out of regard for your capacity. Just at present it is impossible to make the matter entirely plain, but I will try to lay it before you a little more fully for the sake of clearness.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ποῖον οὖν δὴ φράζεις διαιρουμένους ἡμᾶς οὐκ
ὀρθῶς ἄρτι δρᾶν;
Y. Soc.What is it, then, that you say we did wrongly in making our division just now?
ΞΕ.Τοιόνδε, οἷον εἴ τις τἀνθρώπινον ἐπιχειρήσας δίχα
262d διελέσθαι γένος διαιροῖ καθάπερ οἱ πολλοὶ τῶν ἐνθάδε διανέμουσι,
τὸ μὲν Ἑλληνικὸν ὡς ἓν ἀπὸ πάντων ἀφαιροῦντες
χωρίς, σύμπασι δὲ τοῖς ἄλλοις γένεσιν, ἀπείροις οὖσι καὶ
ἀμείκτοις καὶ ἀσυμφώνοις πρὸς ἄλληλα, βάρβαρον μιᾷ κλήσει
προσειπόντες αὐτὸ διὰ ταύτην τὴν μίαν κλῆσιν καὶ γένος
ἓν αὐτὸ εἶναι προσδοκῶσιν· ἢ τὸν ἀριθμόν τις αὖ νομίζοι
κατ' εἴδη δύο διαιρεῖν μυριάδα ἀποτεμνόμενος ἀπὸ πάντων,
262e ὡς ἓν εἶδος ἀποχωρίζων, καὶ τῷ λοιπῷ δὴ παντὶ θέμενος ἓν
ὄνομα διὰ τὴν κλῆσιν αὖ καὶ τοῦτ' ἀξιοῖ γένος ἐκείνου χωρὶς
ἕτερον ἓν γίγνεσθαι. κάλλιον δέ που καὶ μᾶλλον κατ' εἴδη
καὶ δίχα διαιροῖτ' ἄν, εἰ τὸν μὲν ἀριθμὸν ἀρτίῳ καὶ περιττῷ
τις τέμνοι, τὸ δὲ αὖ τῶν ἀνθρώπων γένος ἄρρενι καὶ θήλει,
Λυδοὺς δὲ ἢ Φρύγας ἤ τινας ἑτέρους πρὸς ἅπαντας τάττων
ἀποσχίζοι τότε, ἡνίκα ἀποροῖ γένος ἅμα καὶ μέρος εὑρίσκειν
263a ἑκάτερον τῶν σχισθέντων.
Str.It was very much as if, in undertaking to divide the human race into two parts, one should make the division as most people in this country do; they separate the Hellenic race from all the rest as one, and to all the other races, which are countless in number and have no relation in blood or language to one another, they give the single name barbarian; then, because of this single name, they think it is a single species. Or it was as if a man should think he was dividing number into two classes by cutting off a myriad from all the other numbers, with the notion that he was making one separate class, and then should give one name to all the rest, and because of that name should think that this also formed one class distinct from the other. A better division, more truly classified and more equal, would be made by dividing number into odd and even, and the human race into male and female; as for the Lydians and Phrygians and various others they could be opposed to the rest and split off from them when it was impossible to find and separate two parts, each of which formed a class.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ὀρθότατα· ἀλλὰ γὰρ τοῦτο αὐτό, ὦ ξένε, πῶς
ἄν τις γένος καὶ μέρος ἐναργέστερον γνοίη, ὡς οὐ ταὐτόν
ἐστον ἀλλ' ἕτερον ἀλλήλοιν;
Y. Soc.Very true; but that’s just the trouble, Stranger: how can we get a clearer knowledge of class and part, and see that they are not the same thing, but different?
ΞΕ.Ὦ βέλτιστε ἀνδρῶν, οὐ φαῦλον προστάττεις, Σώκρατες.
ἡμεῖς μὲν καὶ νῦν μακροτέραν τοῦ δέοντος ἀπὸ
τοῦ προτεθέντος λόγου πεπλανήμεθα, σὺ δὲ ἔτι πλέον ἡμᾶς
κελεύεις πλανηθῆναι. νῦν μὲν οὖν, ὥσπερ εἰκός, ἐπανίωμεν
263b πάλιν· ταῦτα δὲ εἰς αὖθις κατὰ σχολὴν καθάπερ ἰχνεύοντες
μέτιμεν. οὐ μὴν ἀλλὰ τοῦτό γε αὖ παντάπασιν φύλαξαι, μή
ποτε παρ' ἐμοῦ δόξῃς αὐτὸ ἐναργῶς διωρισμένον ἀκηκοέναι.
Str.Socrates, you most excellent young man, it is no small task you impose upon me. We have already strayed away from our subject more than we ought, and you wish us to wander still farther afield. So for the present let us return to our subject, as is proper; then we will go on the trail of this other matter by and by, when we have time. Only take very good care not to imagine that you ever heard me declare flatly—
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τὸ ποῖον;
Y. Soc.What?
ΞΕ.Εἶδός τε καὶ μέρος ἕτερον ἀλλήλων εἶναι.
Str.That class and part are separate from one another.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τί μήν;
Y. Soc.But what did you say?
ΞΕ.Ὡς εἶδος μὲν ὅταν ᾖ του, καὶ μέρος αὐτὸ ἀναγκαῖον
εἶναι τοῦ πράγματος ὅτουπερ ἂν εἶδος λέγηται· μέρος δὲ
εἶδος οὐδεμία ἀνάγκη. ταύτῃ με ἢ 'κείνῃ μᾶλλον, ὦ Σώκρατες,
ἀεὶ φάθι λέγειν.
Str.That when there is a class of anything, it must necessarily be a part of the thing of which it is said to be a class; but there is no necessity that a part be also a class. Please always give this, rather than the other, as my doctrine.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ταῦτ' ἔσται.
Y. Soc.I will do so.
263c ΞΕ.Φράσον δή μοι τὸ μετὰ τοῦτο.
Str.Then please go on to the next point.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ποῖον;
Y. Soc.What is it?
ΞΕ.Τὸ τῆς ἀποπλανήσεως ὁπόθεν ἡμᾶς δεῦρ' ἤγαγεν.
οἶμαι μὲν γὰρ μάλιστα, ὅθεν ἐρωτηθεὶς σὺ τὴν ἀγελαιοτροφίαν
ὅπῃ διαιρετέον εἶπες μάλα προθύμως δύ' εἶναι ζῴων
γένη, τὸ μὲν ἀνθρώπινον, ἕτερον δὲ τῶν ἄλλων συμπάντων
θηρίων ἕν.
Str.That from which our present digression started. For I think it started when you were asked how the art of herding should be divided and said with great readiness that there were two kinds of living beings, the human race and a second one, a single class, comprising all the beasts.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ἀληθῆ.
Y. Soc.True.
ΞΕ.Καὶ ἔμοιγε δὴ τότ' ἐφάνης μέρος ἀφαιρῶν ἡγεῖσθαι
καταλιπεῖν τὸ λοιπὸν αὖ πάντων γένος ἕν, ὅτι πᾶσι ταὐτὸν
263d ἐπονομάζειν ἔσχες ὄνομα, θηρία καλέσας.
Str.And it was clear to me at the time that you removed a part and then thought that the remainder was one class because you were able to call them all by the same name of beasts.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ἦν καὶ ταῦτα οὕτως.
Y. Soc.That is true, too.
ΞΕ.Τὸ δέ γε, ὦ πάντων ἀνδρειότατε, τάχ' ἄν, εἴ που
φρόνιμόν ἐστί τι ζῷον ἕτερον, οἷον δοκεῖ τὸ τῶν γεράνων,
ἤ τι τοιοῦτον ἄλλο, ὃ κατὰ ταὐτὰ ἴσως διονομάζει καθάπερ
καὶ σύ, γεράνους μὲν ἓν γένος ἀντιτιθὲν τοῖς ἄλλοις ζῴοις
καὶ σεμνῦνον αὐτὸ ἑαυτό, τὰ δὲ ἄλλα μετὰ τῶν ἀνθρώπων
συλλαβὸν εἰς ταὐτὸ οὐδὲν ἄλλο πλὴν ἴσως θηρία προσείποι.
263e πειραθῶμεν οὖν ἡμεῖς ἐξευλαβεῖσθαι πάνθ' ὁπόσα τοιαῦτα.
Str.But indeed, my most courageous young friend, perhaps, if there is any other animal capable of thought, such as the crane appears to be, or any other like creature, and it perchance gives names, just as you do, it might in its pride of self oppose cranes to all other animals, and group the rest, men included, under one head, calling them by one name, which might very well be that of beasts. Now let us try to be on our guard against all that sort of thing.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς;
Y. Soc.How can we guard against it?
ΞΕ.Μὴ πᾶν τὸ τῶν ζῴων γένος διαιρούμενοι, ἵνα ἧττον
αὐτὰ πάσχωμεν.
Str.By not dividing the whole class of living beings, that so we may avoid such errors.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Οὐδὲν γὰρ δεῖ.
Y. Soc.Well, there is no need of dividing the whole.
ΞΕ.Καὶ γὰρ οὖν καὶ τότε ἡμαρτάνετο ταύτῃ.
Str.No, certainly not, for it was in that way that we fell into our former error.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τί δή;
Y. Soc.What do you mean?
ΞΕ.Τῆς γνωστικῆς ὅσον ἐπιτακτικὸν ἡμῖν μέρος ἦν που
τοῦ ζῳοτροφικοῦ γένους, ἀγελαίων μὴν ζῴων. ἦ γάρ;
Str.That part of intellectual science which involves giving commands was a part of our animal-tending class, with especial reference to animals in herds, was it not?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ναί.
Y. Soc.Yes.
264a ΞΕ.Διῄρητο τοίνυν ἤδη καὶ τότε σύμπαν τὸ ζῷον τῷ
τιθασῷ καὶ ἀγρίῳ. τὰ μὲν γὰρ ἔχοντα τιθασεύεσθαι φύσιν
ἥμερα προσείρηται, τὰ δὲ μὴ 'θέλοντα ἄγρια.
Str.Well, even at that stage of our discussion all animals had already been divided into tame and wild. For if their nature admits of domestication they are called tame; if it does not, they are called wild.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Καλῶς.
Y. Soc.Excellent.
ΞΕ.Ἣν δέ γε θηρεύομεν ἐπιστήμην, ἐν τοῖς ἡμέροις ἦν
τε καὶ ἔστιν, ἐπὶ τοῖς ἀγελαίοις μὴν ζητητέα θρέμμασιν.
Str.But the science we are hunting for was, and is, to be sought among tame creatures, more specifically creatures in herds.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ναί.
Y. Soc.Yes.
ΞΕ.Μὴ τοίνυν διαιρώμεθα ὥσπερ τότε πρὸς ἅπαντα
ἀποβλέψαντες, μηδὲ σπεύσαντες, ἵνα δὴ ταχὺ γενώμεθα
264b πρὸς τῇ πολιτικῇ. πεποίηκε γὰρ ἡμᾶς καὶ νῦν παθεῖν τὸ
κατὰ τὴν παροιμίαν πάθος.
Str.Let us, then, not make our division as we did before, with a view to all, nor in a hurry, with the idea that we may thus reach political science quickly, for that has already brought upon us the proverbial penalty.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ποῖον;
Y. Soc.What penalty?
ΞΕ.Οὐχ ἡσύχους εὖ διαιροῦντας ἠνυκέναι βραδύτερον.
Str.The penalty of having made less speed, because we made too much haste and did not make our division right.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Καὶ καλῶς γε, ὦ ξένε, πεποίηκε.
Y. Soc.And it was a good thing for us, Stranger
ΞΕ.Ταῦτ' ἔστω. πάλιν δ' οὖν ἐξ ἀρχῆς τὴν κοινοτροφικὴν
πειρώμεθα διαιρεῖν· ἴσως γὰρ καὶ τοῦτο ὃ σὺ
προθυμῇ διαπεραινόμενος ὁ λόγος αὐτός σοι κάλλιον μηνύσει.
καί μοι φράζε.
Str.I do not deny it. So let us begin again and try to divide the art of tending animals in common; for perhaps the information you desire so much will come to you in the ordinary course of our conversation better than by other means. Tell me—
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ποῖον δή;
Y. Soc.What?
ΞΕ.Τόδε, εἴ τινων πολλάκις ἄρα διακήκοας· οὐ γὰρ δὴ
264c προστυχής γε αὐτὸς οἶδ' ὅτι γέγονας ταῖς ἐν τῷ Νείλῳ
τιθασείαις τῶν ἰχθύων καὶ τῶν ἐν ταῖς βασιλικαῖς λίμναις.
ἐν μὲν γὰρ κρήναις τάχ' ἂν ἴσως εἴης ᾐσθημένος.
Str.Whether, as I suppose, you have often heard people speak of this,— for I know you never actually saw the preserves of fish in the Nile and in the ponds of the Persian king. But perhaps you have noticed the like in fountain-pools.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πάνυ μὲν οὖν καὶ ταῦτα τεθέαμαι κἀκεῖνα
πολλῶν ἀκήκοα.
Y. Soc.Yes, I have often seen the fish in fountain-pools and have heard many tales of those foreign preserves.
ΞΕ.Καὶ μὴν χηνοβωτίας γε καὶ γερανοβωτίας, εἰ καὶ
μὴ πεπλάνησαι περὶ τὰ Θετταλικὰ πεδία, πέπυσαι γοῦν
καὶ πιστεύεις εἶναι.
Str.And surely, even if you have not wandered over the plains of Thessaly, you have heard of goose-farms and crane-farms there and you believe that they exist.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τί μήν;
Y. Soc.Yes, of course.
264d ΞΕ.Τοῦδ' ἕνεκά τοι πάντα ἠρώτησα ταῦτα, διότι
τῆς τῶν ἀγελαίων τροφῆς ἔστι μὲν ἔνυδρον, ἔστι δὲ καὶ
ξηροβατικόν.
Str.The reason why I asked you all these questions is that the rearing of flocks is in part aquatic and in part an affair of the dry land.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ἔστι γὰρ οὖν.
Y. Soc.Yes, that is true.
ΞΕ.Ἆρ' οὖν καὶ σοὶ συνδοκεῖ ταύτῃ δεῖν διχάζειν τὴν
κοινοτροφικὴν ἐπιστήμην, ἐφ' ἑκατέρῳ τούτων τὸ μέρος
αὐτῆς ἐπινέμοντας ἑκάτερον, τὸ μὲν ἕτερον ὑγροτροφικὸν
ὀνομάζοντας, τὸ δ' ἕτερον ξηροτροφικόν;
Str.Then do you agree that we ought to divide the art of tending animals in common into corresponding parts, assigning one part of it to each of these two, and calling one the art of aquatic-herding and the other the art of land-herding?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ἔμοιγε.
Y. Soc.Yes, I agree.
ΞΕ.Καὶ μὴν καὶ τὸ βασιλικὸν οὕτως οὐ ζητήσομεν
264e ὁποτέρας ἐστὶ τῆς τέχνης· δῆλον [δὴ] γὰρ παντί.
Str.And surely we shall not have to ask to which of these two arts kingship belongs, for that is clear to everyone.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς δ' οὔ;
Y. Soc.Of course.
ΞΕ.Πᾶς μὲν δὴ τό γε ξηροτροφικὸν τῆς ἀγελαιοτροφίας
διέλοιτ' ἂν φῦλον.
Str.Anybody could doubtless make a division of the art of tending herds on land.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς;
Y. Soc.What would the division be?
ΞΕ.Τῷ πτηνῷ τε καὶ πεζῷ διορισάμενος.
Str.Into the tending of flying and walking animals.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ἀληθέστατα.
Y. Soc.Very true.
ΞΕ.Τί δέ; τὸ πολιτικὸν ἦ περὶ τὸ πεζὸν ζητητέον; ἢ
οὐκ οἴει καὶ τὸν ἀφρονέστατον ὡς ἔπος εἰπεῖν δοξάζειν
οὕτως;
Str.And statesmanship is to be sought in connection with walking animals, is it not? Any fool, so to speak, would believe that, don’t you think?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ἔγωγε.
Y. Soc.Of course.
ΞΕ.Τὴν δὲ πεζονομικήν, καθάπερ ἄρτι τὸν ἀριθμόν, δεῖ
τεμνομένην δίχα ἀποφαίνειν.
Str.And the art of tending animals that walk must, like an even number, be divided in half.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Δῆλον.
Y. Soc.Evidently.
265a ΞΕ.Καὶ μὴν ἐφ' ὅ γε μέρος ὥρμηκεν ἡμῖν ὁ λόγος, ἐπ'
ἐκεῖνο δύο τινὲ καθορᾶν ὁδὼ τεταμένα φαίνεται, τὴν μὲν
θάττω, πρὸς μέγα μέρος σμικρὸν διαιρουμένην, τὴν δέ, ὅπερ
ἐν τῷ πρόσθεν ἐλέγομεν ὅτι δεῖ μεσοτομεῖν ὡς μάλιστα, τοῦτ'
ἔχουσαν μᾶλλον, μακροτέραν γε μήν. ἔξεστιν οὖν ὁποτέραν
ἂν βουληθῶμεν, ταύτην πορευθῆναι.
Str.And now I think I see two paths leading in that direction in which our argument has started: the quicker way, by separating a relatively small part and a larger, and the other way, which is more in accord with what we said a while ago about the need of making the division as nearly in the middle as we can, but is longer. So we can proceed by whichever of the two we wish.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τί δέ; ἀμφοτέρας ἀδύνατον;
Y. Soc.Can we not go by both?
ΞΕ.Ἅμα γ', ὦ θαυμαστέ· ἐν μέρει γε μὴν δῆλον ὅτι
δυνατόν.
Str.Not by both at once, silly boy; but obviously we can take them in turn.
265b ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ἐν μέρει τοίνυν ἔγωγε ἀμφοτέρας αἱροῦμαι.
Y. Soc.Then I choose both in turn.
ΞΕ.Ῥᾴδιον, ἐπειδὴ τὸ λοιπὸν βραχύ· κατ' ἀρχὰς μὴν
καὶ μεσοῦσιν ἅμα τῆς πορείας χαλεπὸν ἂν ἦν ἡμῖν τὸ πρόςταγμα.
νῦν δ', ἐπειδὴ δοκεῖ ταύτῃ, τὴν μακροτέραν πρότερον
ἴωμεν· νεαλέστεροι γὰρ ὄντες ῥᾷον αὐτὴν πορευσόμεθα. τὴν
δὲ δὴ διαίρεσιν ὅρα.
Str.That is easy enough, since we have but a short distance to go. At the beginning, certainly, or middle of our journey it would have been hard to comply with your demand. But now, since this is your wish, let us go first by the longer way, for we are fresher now and shall get along on it more easily. So attend to the division.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Λέγε.
Y. Soc.Go on.
ΞΕ.Τὰ πεζὰ ἡμῖν τῶν ἡμέρων, ὅσαπερ ἀγελαῖα, διῃρημένα
ἐστὶ φύσει δίχα.
Str.The tame walking animals which live in herds are divided by nature into two classes.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τίνι;
Y. Soc.How by nature?
ΞΕ.Τῷ τῶν μὲν τὴν γένεσιν ἄκερων εἶναι, τῶν δὲ
κερασφόρον.
Str.Because one class is naturally without horns, and the other has horns.
265c ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Φαίνεται.
Y. Soc.That is obvious.
ΞΕ.Τὴν δὴ πεζονομικὴν διελὼν ἀπόδος ἑκατέρῳ τῷ μέρει
λόγῳ χρώμενος. ἂν γὰρ ὀνομάζειν αὐτὰ βουληθῇς, ἔσται σοι
περιπεπλεγμένον μᾶλλον τοῦ δέοντος.
Str.Now divide the art of tending herds of walking animals into two parts, assigning one to each class of animals; and define the parts, for if you try to give them names, the matter will become needlessly complicated.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς οὖν χρὴ λέγειν;
Y. Soc.How shall I speak of them then?
ΞΕ.Ὧδε· τῆς πεζονομικῆς ἐπιστήμης δίχα διαιρεθείσης
τὸ μόριον θάτερον ἐπὶ τῷ κερασφόρῳ μέρει τῷ τῆς ἀγέλης
ἐπιτετάχθαι, τὸ δὲ ἕτερον ἐπὶ τῷ τῆς ἀκεράτου.
Str.In this way: say that the science which tends herds of walking animals is divided into two parts, one of which is assigned to the horned portion of the herd, the other to the hornless portion.
265d ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ταῦτ' ἔστω ταύτῃ λεχθέντα· πάντως γὰρ ἱκανῶς
δεδήλωται.
Y. Soc.Assume that I have said that; for you have made it perfectly clear.
ΞΕ.Καὶ μὴν ὅ γε βασιλεὺς ἡμῖν αὖ καταφανὴς ὅτι
κολοβὸν ἀγέλην τινὰ κεράτων νομεύει.
Str.And furthermore our king is very clearly the herdsman of a herd devoid of horns.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς γὰρ οὐ δῆλος;
Y. Soc.Of course; that is evident.
ΞΕ.Ταύτην τοίνυν καταθραύσαντες τὸ γιγνόμενον αὐτῷ
πειρώμεθα ἀποδοῦναι.
Str.Let us then try to break up this herd and give the king the part that belongs to him.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πάνυ γε.
Y. Soc.Very well.
ΞΕ.Πότερον οὖν βούλει τῷ σχιστῷ τε καὶ τῷ καλουμένῳ
μώνυχι διαιρεῖν αὐτὴν ἢ τῇ κοινογονίᾳ τε καὶ ἰδιογονίᾳ;
μανθάνεις γάρ που.
Str.Shall we make our division on the basis of having or not having cloven hoofs, or on that of mixing or not mixing the breed? You know what I mean.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τὸ ποῖον;
Y. Soc.No. What is it?
265e ΞΕ.Ὅτι τὸ μὲν τῶν ἵππων καὶ ὄνων πέφυκεν ἐξ ἀλλήλων
γεννᾶν.
Str.Why, I mean that horses and asses can breed from each other.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ναί.
Y. Soc.Oh yes.
ΞΕ.Τὸ δέ γε λοιπὸν ἔτι τῆς λείας ἀγέλης τῶν ἡμέρων
ἀμιγὲς γένει πρὸς ἄλληλα.
Str.But the rest of the herd of hornless tame animals cannot cross the breed.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς δ' οὔ;
Y. Soc.That is true, of course.
ΞΕ.Τί δ'; ὁ πολιτικὸς ἄρ' ἐπιμέλειαν ἔχειν φαίνεται
πότερα κοινογενοῦς φύσεως ἤ τινος ἰδιογενοῦς;
Str.Well then, does the statesman appear to have charge of a kind that mixes or of one that does not mix the breed?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Δῆλον ὅτι τῆς ἀμείκτου.
Y. Soc.Evidently of one that is unmixed.
ΞΕ.Ταύτην δὴ δεῖ καθάπερ τὰ ἔμπροσθεν, ὡς ἔοικεν,
ἡμᾶς δίχα διαστέλλειν.
Str.So I suppose we must proceed as we have done heretofore and divide this into two parts.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Δεῖ γὰρ οὖν.
Y. Soc.Yes, we must.
266a ΞΕ.Καὶ μὴν τό γε ζῷον, ὅσον ἥμερον καὶ ἀγελαῖον,
σχεδὸν πλὴν γενοῖν δυοῖν πᾶν ἤδη κατακεκερμάτισται. τὸ
γὰρ τῶν κυνῶν οὐκ ἐπάξιον καταριθμεῖν γένος ὡς ἐν ἀγελαίοις
θρέμμασιν.
Str.And yet tame gregarious animals have all, with the exception of about two species, been already divided; for dogs are not properly to be counted among gregarious creatures.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Οὐ γὰρ οὖν. ἀλλὰ τίνι δὴ τὼ δύο διαιροῦμεν;
Y. Soc.No, they are not. But how shall we divide the two species?
ΞΕ.Ὧιπερ καὶ δίκαιόν γε Θεαίτητόν τε καὶ σὲ διανέμειν,
ἐπειδὴ καὶ γεωμετρίας ἅπτεσθον.
Str.As you and Theaetetus ought by rights to divide them, since you are interested in geometry.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τῷ;
Y. Soc.How do you mean?
ΞΕ.Τῇ διαμέτρῳ δήπου καὶ πάλιν τῇ τῆς διαμέτρου
διαμέτρῳ.
Str.By the diameter, of course, and again by the diameter of the square of the diameter.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς εἶπες;
Y. Soc.What do you mean by that?
266b ΞΕ.Ἡ φύσις, ἣν τὸ γένος ἡμῶν τῶν ἀνθρώπων κέκτηται,
μῶν ἄλλως πως εἰς τὴν πορείαν πέφυκεν ἢ καθάπερ ἡ
διάμετρος ἡ δυνάμει δίπους;
Str.Is the nature which our human race possesses related to walking in any other way than as the diameter which is the square root of two feet?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Οὐκ ἄλλως.
Y. Soc.No.
ΞΕ.Καὶ μὴν ἥ γε τοῦ λοιποῦ γένους πάλιν ἐστὶ κατὰ
δύναμιν αὖ τῆς ἡμετέρας δυνάμεως διάμετρος, εἴπερ δυοῖν γέ
ἐστι ποδοῖν δὶς πεφυκυῖα.
Str.And the nature of the remaining species, again, considered from the point of view of the square root, is the diameter of the square of our root, if it is the nature of twice two feet.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς δ' οὐκ ἔστι; καὶ δὴ καὶ σχεδὸν ὃ βούλει
δηλοῦν μανθάνω.
Y. Soc.Of course; and now I think I almost understand what you wish to make plain.
ΞΕ.Πρὸς δὴ τούτοις ἕτερον αὖ τι τῶν πρὸς γέλωτα
266c εὐδοκιμησάντων ἄν, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἆρα καθορῶμεν ἡμῖν γεγονὸς
ἐν τοῖς διῃρημένοις;
Str.Socrates, do we see that besides this something else has turned up in these divisions of ours which would be a famous joke?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τὸ ποῖον;
Y. Soc.No. What is it?
ΞΕ.Τἀνθρώπινον ἡμῶν ἅμα γένος συνειληχὸς καὶ
συνδεδραμηκὸς γένει τῷ τῶν ὄντων γενναιοτάτῳ καὶ ἅμα
εὐχερεστάτῳ.
Str.Our human race shares the same lot and runs in the same heat as the most excellent and at the same time most easy-going race of creatures.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Καθορῶ καὶ μάλ' ἀτόπως συμβαῖνον.
Y. Soc.Yes, I see that; it is a very queer result.
ΞΕ.Τί δ'; οὐκ εἰκὸς ὕστατα ἀφικνεῖσθαι τὰ βραδύτατα;
Str.Indeed? But is it not reasonable that they arrive last, who are the slowest?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ναί, τοῦτό γε.
Y. Soc.Yes, that is true.
ΞΕ.Τόδε δὲ οὐκ ἐννοοῦμεν, ὡς ἔτι γελοιότερος ὁ βασιλεὺς
φαίνεται μετὰ τῆς ἀγέλης συνδιαθέων καὶ σύνδρομα
266d πεπορευμένος τῷ τῶν ἀνδρῶν αὖ πρὸς τὸν εὐχερῆ βίον ἄριστα
γεγυμνασμένῳ;
Str.And do we fail to notice this further point, that the king appears in a still more ridiculous light, running along with the herd and paired in the race with the man of all others who is most in training for a life of careless ease?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Παντάπασι μὲν οὖν.
Y. Soc.Certainly he does.
ΞΕ.Νῦν γάρ, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἐκεῖνό ἐστι καταφανὲς μᾶλλον
τὸ ῥηθὲν τότ' ἐν τῇ περὶ τὸν σοφιστὴν ζητήσει.
Str.For now, Socrates, we have shown more clearly the truth of that which we said yesterday in our search for the sophist.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τὸ ποῖον;
Y. Soc.What was it?
ΞΕ.Ὅτι τῇ τοιᾷδε μεθόδῳ τῶν λόγων οὔτε σεμνοτέρου
μᾶλλον ἐμέλησεν ἢ μή, τόν τε σμικρότερον οὐδὲν ἠτίμακε
πρὸ τοῦ μείζονος, ἀεὶ δὲ καθ' αὑτὴν περαίνει τἀληθέστατον.
Str.That this method of argument pays no more heed to the noble than to the ignoble, and no less honor to the small than to the great, but always goes on its own way to the most perfect truth.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ἔοικεν.
Y. Soc.So it seems.
ΞΕ.Οὐκοῦν μετὰ τοῦτο, ἵνα μή με φθῇς ἐρωτήσας τὴν
266e βραχυτέραν ὁδὸν ἥτις τότε ἦν ἐπὶ τὸν τοῦ βασιλέως ὅρον,
αὐτός σοι πρότερον ἔλθω;
Str.Then shall I now, without waiting for you to ask me, guide you of my own accord along that shorter way referred to a moment ago that leads to the definition of the king?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Σφόδρα γε.
Y. Soc.By all means.
ΞΕ.Λέγω δὴ δεῖν τότε εὐθὺς τὸ πεζὸν τῷ δίποδι πρὸς
τὸ τετράπουν γένος διανεῖμαι, κατιδόντα δὲ τἀνθρώπινον ἔτι
μόνῳ τῷ πτηνῷ συνειληχὸς τὴν δίποδα ἀγέλην πάλιν τῷ
ψιλῷ καὶ τῷ πτεροφυεῖ τέμνειν, τμηθείσης δὲ αὐτῆς καὶ
τότ' ἤδη τῆς ἀνθρωπονομικῆς δηλωθείσης τέχνης, φέροντα
τὸν πολιτικὸν καὶ βασιλικὸν οἷον ἡνίοχον εἰς αὐτὴν ἐνστήσαντα,
παραδοῦναι τὰς τῆς πόλεως ἡνίας ὡς οἰκείας καὶ
αὐτῷ ταύτης οὔσης τῆς ἐπιστήμης.
Str.I say, then, that we ought at that time to have divided walking animals immediately into biped and quadruped, then seeing that the human race falls into the same division with the feathered creatures and no others, we must again divide the biped class into featherless and feathered, and when that division is made and the art of herding human beings is made plain, we ought to take the statesmanlike and kingly man and place him as a sort of charioteer therein, handing over to him the reins of the state, because that is his own proper science.
267a ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Καλῶς καὶ καθαπερεὶ χρέος ἀπέδωκάς μοι τὸν
λόγον, προσθεὶς τὴν ἐκτροπὴν οἷον τόκον καὶ ἀναπληρώσας
αὐτόν.
Y. Soc.You have cleared up the argument finely, and as if it were a debt you were paying, you threw in the digression as interest and for good measure.
ΞΕ.Φέρε δὴ καὶ συνείρωμεν ἐπανελθόντες ἐπὶ τὴν ἀρχὴν
μέχρι τῆς τελευτῆς τὸν λόγον τοῦ ὀνόματος τῆς τοῦ πολιτικοῦ
τέχνης.
Str.Now let us go back to the beginning and join together the definition of the name of the statesman’s art link by link to the end.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πάνυ μὲν οὖν.
Y. Soc.By all means.
ΞΕ.Τῆς γνωστικῆς τοίνυν ἐπιστήμης ἡμῖν ἦν κατ' ἀρχὰς
μέρος ἐπιτακτικόν· τούτου δὲ ἀπεικασθὲν τὸ μόριον αὐτεπιτακτικὸν
267b ἐρρήθη. ζῳοτροφικὴ δὲ πάλιν αὐτεπιτακτικῆς οὐ τὸ
σμικρότατον τῶν γενῶν ἀπεσχίζετο· καὶ ζῳοτροφικῆς εἶδος
ἀγελαιοτροφικόν, ἀγελαιοτροφικοῦ δ' αὖ πεζονομικόν· τοῦ δὲ
πεζονομικοῦ μάλιστα ἀπετέμνετο τέχνη τῆς ἀκεράτου φύσεως
θρεπτική. ταύτης δ' αὖ τὸ μέρος οὐκ ἔλαττον τριπλοῦν
συμπλέκειν ἀναγκαῖον, ἂν εἰς ἕν τις αὐτὸ ὄνομα συναγαγεῖν
βουληθῇ, γενέσεως ἀμείκτου νομευτικὴν ἐπιστήμην προςαγορεύων.
267c τὸ δ' ἀπὸ τούτου τμῆμα, ἐπὶ ποίμνῃ δίποδι μέρος
ἀνθρωπονομικὸν ἔτι λειφθὲν μόνον, τοῦτ' αὐτό ἐστιν ἤδη τὸ
ζητηθέν, ἅμα βασιλικὸν ταὐτὸν κληθὲν καὶ πολιτικόν.
Str.In the first place we said that intellectual science had a part that gives commands; and a portion of this was called by a comparison the part that gives its own commands; and again the art of rearing living beings was singled out, which is by no means the smallest part of the art which gives its own commands; and a class of rearing living beings was herd-tending, and a part of this again the herding of walking animals; and from the herding of walking animals the art of rearing those without horns was divided. And of this in turn one part will have to be treated as no less than threefold, if it is to be called by one comprehensive name, and it will be called (1) the science (2) of tending herds (3) which do not cross breeds. But the only possible further subdivision of this is the art of herding human beings, and this is at last what we are looking for, the single art called both kingly and statesmanlike.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Παντάπασι μὲν οὖν.
Y. Soc.That is perfectly true.
ΞΕ.Ἆρά γ', ὦ Σώκρατες, ἀληθῶς ἡμῖν τοῦτο καθάπερ
σὺ νῦν εἴρηκας οὕτως ἐστὶ καὶ πεπραγμένον;
Str.And yet, Socrates, have we truly accomplished this, exactly as you have said?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τὸ ποῖον δή;
Y. Soc.Accomplished what?
ΞΕ.Τὸ παντάπασιν ἱκανῶς εἰρῆσθαι τὸ προτεθέν; ἢ
τοῦτ' αὐτὸ καὶ μάλιστα ἡ ζήτησις ἐλλείπει, τὸ τὸν λόγον
267d εἰρῆσθαι μέν πως, οὐ μὴν παντάπασί γε τελέως ἀπειργάσθαι;
Str.The perfectly satisfactory discussion of our subject. Or is our investigation incomplete in just this detail, that we have given a definition after a fashion, but have not perfectly completed it?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς εἶπες;
Y. Soc.What do you mean?
ΞΕ.Ἐγὼ νῷν πειράσομαι τοῦτ' αὐτὸ ὃ διανοοῦμαι νῦν
ἔτι μᾶλλον δηλῶσαι.
Str.I will try to make still plainer to us both the thought which I now have in mind.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Λέγοις ἄν.
Y. Soc.Please do so.
ΞΕ.Οὐκοῦν τῶν νομευτικῶν ἡμῖν πολλῶν φανεισῶν
ἄρτι τεχνῶν μία τις ἦν ἡ πολιτικὴ καὶ μιᾶς τινος ἀγέλης
ἐπιμέλεια;
Str.We found just now that there were many arts of herding, and one of them was the art of statesmanship, which was the care of one particular kind of herd, did we not?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ναί.
Y. Soc.Yes.
ΞΕ.Ταύτην δέ γε διώριζεν ὁ λόγος οὐχ ἵππων εἶναι τροφὸν
οὐδ' ἄλλων θηρίων, ἀλλ' ἀνθρώπων κοινοτροφικὴν ἐπιστήμην.
Str.And our argument defined this, not as the tending of horses or other beasts, but as the science of tending men in common.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Οὕτως.
Y. Soc.Yes, it did.
267e ΞΕ.Τὸ δὴ τῶν νομέων πάντων διάφορον καὶ τὸ τῶν
βασιλέων θεασώμεθα.
Str.Let us, then, observe the point of difference between kings and all other herdsmen.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τὸ ποῖον;
Y. Soc.What point of difference?
ΞΕ.Εἴ τις τῶν ἄλλων τῳ, τέχνης ἄλλης ὄνομα ἔχων,
κοινῇ τῆς ἀγέλης σύντροφος εἶναί φησι καὶ προσποιεῖται.
Str.Let us see whether anyone who is designated by the name of another art says and claims that he is fellow manager of the herd in common with any of the other kinds of herdsmen.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς φῄς;
Y. Soc.What do you mean?
ΞΕ.Οἷον οἱ ἔμποροι καὶ γεωργοὶ καὶ σιτουργοὶ πάντες,
καὶ πρὸς τούτοις γυμνασταὶ καὶ τὸ τῶν ἰατρῶν γένος, οἶσθ'
ὅτι τοῖς περὶ τὰ ἀνθρώπινα νομεῦσιν, οὓς πολιτικοὺς ἐκαλέσαμεν,
268a παντάπασι τῷ λόγῳ διαμάχοιντ' ἂν οὗτοι σύμπαντες,
ὡς σφεῖς τῆς τροφῆς ἐπιμελοῦνται τῆς ἀνθρωπίνης, οὐ μόνον
ἀγελαίων ἀνθρώπων ἀλλὰ καὶ τῆς τῶν ἀρχόντων αὐτῶν;
Str.For instance, merchants, husbandmen, and all who prepare grain for use, and also gymnastic trainers and physicians would certainly all dispute with the herdsmen of humanity, whom we have called statesmen, and would assert that they themselves take care of the tending of humanity, and not the tending of the common herd only, but even that of the rulers themselves, would they not?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Οὐκοῦν ὀρθῶς ἂν λέγοιεν;
Y. Soc.And would they be right?
ΞΕ.Ἴσως. καὶ τοῦτο μὲν ἐπισκεψόμεθα, τόδε δὲ ἴσμεν,
ὅτι βουκόλῳ γε οὐδεὶς ἀμφισβητήσει περὶ τούτων οὐδενός,
ἀλλ' αὐτὸς τῆς ἀγέλης τροφὸς ὁ βουφορβός, αὐτὸς ἰατρός,
αὐτὸς οἷον νυμφευτὴς καὶ περὶ τοὺς τῶν γιγνομένων τόκους
268b καὶ λοχείας μόνος ἐπιστήμων τῆς μαιευτικῆς. ἔτι τοίνυν
παιδιᾶς καὶ μουσικῆς ἐφ' ὅσον αὐτοῦ τὰ θρέμματα φύσει
μετείληφεν, οὐκ ἄλλος κρείττων παραμυθεῖσθαι καὶ κηλῶν
πραΰνειν, μετά τε ὀργάνων καὶ ψιλῷ τῷ στόματι τὴν τῆς
αὑτοῦ ποίμνης ἄριστα μεταχειριζόμενος μουσικήν. καὶ δὴ καὶ
τῶν ἄλλων πέρι νομέων ὁ αὐτὸς τρόπος. ἦ γάρ;
Str.Perhaps. We will examine that matter; but this we know, that no one will ever raise such a contention against any neatherd, but the herdsman himself tends the herd, he is their physician, he is their matchmaker, and he alone knows the midwife’s science of aiding at the birth of their offspring. Moreover, so far as the nature of the creatures allows them to enjoy sport or music, no one can enliven or soothe them better than he; whether with instruments or merely with his voice he performs the music best suited to his own herd; and the same applies to the other herdsmen. Is not that the case?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ὀρθότατα.
Y. Soc.You are quite right.
ΞΕ.Πῶς οὖν ἡμῖν ὁ λόγος ὀρθὸς φανεῖται καὶ ἀκέραιος
268c ὁ περὶ τοῦ βασιλέως, ὅταν αὐτὸν νομέα καὶ τροφὸν ἀγέλης
ἀνθρωπίνης θῶμεν μόνον ἐκκρίνοντες μυρίων ἄλλων ἀμφιςβητούντων;
Str.Then how can our discourse about the king be right and free from error, when we pick him out alone as herdsman and tender of the human herd, while countless others dispute his claim?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Οὐδαμῶς.
Y. Soc.It cannot possibly be right.
ΞΕ.Οὐκοῦν ὀρθῶς ὀλίγον ἔμπροσθεν ἐφοβήθημεν ὑποπτεύσαντες
μὴ λέγοντες μέν τι τυγχάνοιμεν σχῆμα βασιλικόν,
οὐ μὴν ἀπειργασμένοι γε εἶμέν πω δι' ἀκριβείας τὸν πολιτικόν,
ἕως ἂν τοὺς περικεχυμένους αὐτῷ καὶ τῆς συννομῆς
αὐτῷ ἀντιποιουμένους περιελόντες καὶ χωρίσαντες ἀπ' ἐκείνων
καθαρὸν μόνον αὐτὸν ἀποφήνωμεν;
Str.We suspected a little while ago that although we might be outlining a sort of kingly shape we had not yet perfected an accurate portrait of the statesman, and could not do so until, by removing those who crowd about him and contend with him for a share in his herdsmanship, we separated him from them and made him stand forth alone and uncontaminated. Was our fear justified?
268d ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ὀρθότατα μὲν οὖν.
Y. Soc.It certainly was.
ΞΕ.Τοῦτο τοίνυν, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἡμῖν ποιητέον, εἰ μὴ
μέλλομεν ἐπὶ τῷ τέλει καταισχῦναι τὸν λόγον.
Str.Then we must attend to that, Socrates, if we are not to end our argument in disgrace.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ἀλλὰ μὴν οὐδαμῶς τοῦτό γε δραστέον.
Y. Soc.But we certainly must not do that.
ΞΕ.Πάλιν τοίνυν ἐξ ἄλλης ἀρχῆς δεῖ καθ' ἑτέραν ὁδὸν
πορευθῆναί τινα.
Str.Then we must begin again from a new sarting-point and travel by a different road.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ποίαν δή;
Y. Soc.By what road?
ΞΕ.Σχεδὸν παιδιὰν ἐγκερασαμένους· συχνῷ γὰρ μέρει
δεῖ μεγάλου μύθου προσχρήσασθαι, καὶ τὸ λοιπὸν δή, καθάπερ
268e ἐν τοῖς πρόσθεν, μέρος ἀεὶ μέρους ἀφαιρουμένους ἐπ' ἄκρον
ἀφικνεῖσθαι τὸ ζητούμενον. οὐκοῦν χρή;
Str.By one which offers us some amusement; for there is a famous story a great part of which it is really our duty to insert into our discussion; and then after that we can proceed as before, by eliminating part after part, and in that way reach the ultimate object of our search. Shall we do that?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πάνυ μὲν οὖν.
Y. Soc.By all means.
ΞΕ.Ἀλλὰ δὴ τῷ μύθῳ μου πάνυ πρόσεχε τὸν νοῦν,
καθάπερ οἱ παῖδες· πάντως οὐ πολλὰ ἐκφεύγεις παιδιὰς
ἔτη.
Str.Then please pay careful attention to my story, just as if you were a child; and anyway you are not much too old for children’s tales.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Λέγοις ἄν.
Y. Soc.Please tell the story.
ΞΕ.Ἦν τοίνυν καὶ ἔτι ἔσται τῶν πάλαι λεχθέντων
πολλά τε ἄλλα καὶ δὴ καὶ τὸ περὶ τὴν Ἀτρέως τε καὶ
Θυέστου λεχθεῖσαν ἔριν φάσμα. ἀκήκοας γάρ που καὶ
ἀπομνημονεύεις ὅ φασι γενέσθαι τότε.
Str.Of the portents recorded in ancient tales many did happen and will happen again. Such an one is the portent connected with the tale of the quarrel between Atreus and Thyestes. You have doubtless heard of it and remember what is said to have taken place.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τὸ περὶ τῆς χρυσῆς ἀρνὸς ἴσως σημεῖον
φράζεις.
Y. Soc.You refer, I suppose, to the token of the golden lamb.
269a ΞΕ.Οὐδαμῶς, ἀλλὰ τὸ περὶ τῆς μεταβολῆς δύσεώς τε
καὶ ἀνατολῆς ἡλίου καὶ τῶν ἄλλων ἄστρων, ὡς ἄρα ὅθεν μὲν
ἀνατέλλει νῦν εἰς τοῦτον τότε τὸν τόπον ἐδύετο, ἀνέτελλε δ'
ἐκ τοῦ ἐναντίου, τότε δὲ δὴ μαρτυρήσας ἄρα ὁ θεὸς Ἀτρεῖ
μετέβαλεν αὐτὸ ἐπὶ τὸ νῦν σχῆμα.
Str.Oh no; I mean the change in the rising and setting of the sun and the other heavenly bodies, how in those times they used to set in the quarter where they now rise, and used to rise where they now set, but the god at the time of the quarrel, you recall, changed all that to the present system as a testimony in favor of Atreus.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Λέγεται γὰρ οὖν δὴ καὶ τοῦτο.
Y. Soc.Yes, I’ve heard that, too.
ΞΕ.Καὶ μὴν αὖ καὶ τήν γε βασιλείαν ἣν ἦρξε Κρόνος
πολλῶν ἀκηκόαμεν.
Str.And again we have often heard the tale of the reign of Cronus.
269b ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πλείστων μὲν οὖν.
Y. Soc.Yes, very often.
ΞΕ.Τί δέ; τὸ τοὺς ἔμπροσθεν φύεσθαι γηγενεῖς καὶ μὴ
ἐξ ἀλλήλων γεννᾶσθαι;
Str.And how about the story that the ancient folk were earthborn and not begotten of one another?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Καὶ τοῦτο ἓν τῶν πάλαι λεχθέντων.
Y. Soc.That is one of the old tales, too.
ΞΕ.Ταῦτα τοίνυν ἔστι μὲν σύμπαντα ἐκ ταὐτοῦ πάθους,
καὶ πρὸς τούτοις ἕτερα μυρία καὶ τούτων ἔτι θαυμαστότερα,
διὰ δὲ χρόνου πλῆθος τὰ μὲν αὐτῶν ἀπέσβηκε, τὰ δὲ διεσπαρμένα
εἴρηται χωρὶς ἕκαστα ἀπ' ἀλλήλων. ὃ δ' ἐστὶν πᾶσι
269c τούτοις αἴτιον τὸ πάθος οὐδεὶς εἴρηκεν, νῦν δὲ δὴ λεκτέον·
εἰς γὰρ τὴν τοῦ βασιλέως ἀπόδειξιν πρέψει ῥηθέν.
Str.Well, all these stories and others still more remarkable have their source in one and the same event, but in the lapse of ages some of them have been lost and others are told in fragmentary and disconnected fashion. But no one has told the event which is the cause of them all, and so I must tell it now; for that will help us to make clear the nature of the king.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Κάλλιστ' εἶπες, καὶ λέγε μηδὲν ἐλλείπων.
Y. Soc.Very good; just tell your tale and omit nothing.
ΞΕ.Ἀκούοις ἄν. τὸ γὰρ πᾶν τόδε τοτὲ μὲν αὐτὸς ὁ
θεὸς συμποδηγεῖ πορευόμενον καὶ συγκυκλεῖ, τοτὲ δὲ ἀνῆκεν,
ὅταν αἱ περίοδοι τοῦ προσήκοντος αὐτῷ μέτρον εἰλήφωσιν
ἤδη χρόνου, τὸ δὲ πάλιν αὐτόματον εἰς τἀναντία περιάγεται,
269d ζῷον ὂν καὶ φρόνησιν εἰληχὸς ἐκ τοῦ συναρμόσαντος αὐτὸ
κατ' ἀρχάς. τοῦτο δὲ αὐτῷ τὸ ἀνάπαλιν ἰέναι διὰ τόδ' ἐξ
ἀνάγκης ἔμφυτον γέγονε.
Str.Listen then. During a certain period God himself goes with the universe as guide in its revolving course, but at another epoch, when the cycles have at length reached the measure of his allotted time, he lets it go, and of its own accord it turns backward in the opposite direction, since it is a living creature and is endowed with intelligence by him who fashioned it in the beginning. Now this reversal of its motion is an inevitable part of its nature for the following reason.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Διὰ τὸ ποῖον δή;
Y. Soc.What reason?
ΞΕ.Τὸ κατὰ ταὐτὰ καὶ ὡσαύτως ἔχειν ἀεὶ καὶ ταὐτὸν
εἶναι τοῖς πάντων θειοτάτοις προσήκει μόνοις, σώματος
δὲ φύσις οὐ ταύτης τῆς τάξεως. ὃν δὲ οὐρανὸν καὶ
κόσμον ἐπωνομάκαμεν, πολλῶν μὲν καὶ μακαρίων παρὰ
τοῦ γεννήσαντος μετείληφεν, ἀτὰρ οὖν δὴ κεκοινώνηκέ γε
269e καὶ σώματος· ὅθεν αὐτῷ μεταβολῆς ἀμοίρῳ γίγνεσθαι διὰ
παντὸς ἀδύνατον, κατὰ δύναμίν γε μὴν ὅτι μάλιστα ἐν τῷ
αὐτῷ κατὰ ταὐτὰ μίαν φορὰν κινεῖται· διὸ τὴν ἀνακύκλησιν
εἴληχεν, ὅτι σμικροτάτην τῆς αὑτοῦ κινήσεως παράλλαξιν.
αὐτὸ δὲ ἑαυτὸ στρέφειν ἀεὶ σχεδὸν οὐδενὶ δυνατὸν πλὴν τῷ
τῶν κινουμένων αὖ πάντων ἡγουμένῳ· κινεῖν δὲ τούτῳ τοτὲ
μὲν ἄλλως, αὖθις δὲ ἐναντίως οὐ θέμις. ἐκ πάντων δὴ
τούτων τὸν κόσμον μήτε αὐτὸν χρὴ φάναι στρέφειν ἑαυτὸν
ἀεί, μήτ' αὖ ὅλον ἀεὶ ὑπὸ θεοῦ στρέφεσθαι διττὰς καὶ ἐνανίας
270a περιαγωγάς, μήτ' αὖ δύο τινὲ θεὼ φρονοῦντε ἑαυτοῖς ἐναντία
στρέφειν αὐτόν, ἀλλ' ὅπερ ἄρτι ἐρρήθη καὶ μόνον λοιπόν,
τοτὲ μὲν ὑπ' ἄλλης συμποδηγεῖσθαι θείας αἰτίας, τὸ ζῆν
πάλιν ἐπικτώμενον καὶ λαμβάνοντα ἀθανασίαν ἐπισκευαστὴν
παρὰ τοῦ δημιουργοῦ, τοτὲ δ' ὅταν ἀνεθῇ, δι' ἑαυτοῦ αὐτὸν
ἰέναι, κατὰ καιρὸν ἀφεθέντα τοιοῦτον, ὥστε ἀνάπαλιν
πορεύεσθαι πολλὰς περιόδων μυριάδας διὰ δὴ τὸ μέγιστον
ὂν καὶ ἰσορροπώτατον ἐπὶ μικροτάτου βαῖνον ποδὸς ἰέναι.
Str.Absolute and perpetual immutability is a property of only the most divine things of all, and body does not belong to this class. Now that which we call heaven and the universe has received from its creator many blessed qualities, but then, too, it partakes also of a bodily nature; therefore it is impossible for it to be entirely free from change; it moves, however, so far as it is able to do so, with a single motion in the same place and the same manner, and therefore it has acquired the reverse motion in a circle, because that involves the least deviation from its own motion. But to turn itself for ever is hardly possible except for the power that guides all moving things; and that this should turn now in one direction and now in the opposite direction is contrary to divine law.
As the result of all this, we must not say either that the universe turns itself always, or that it is always turned by God in two opposite courses, or again that two divinities opposed to one another turn it. The only remaining alternative is what I suggested a little while ago, that the universe is guided at one time by an extrinsic divine cause, acquiring the power of living again and receiving renewed immortality from the Creator, and at another time it is left to itself and then moves by its own motion, being left to itself at such a moment that it moves backwards through countless ages, because it is immensely large and most evenly balanced, and turns upon the smallest pivot.
270b ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Φαίνεται γοῦν δὴ καὶ μάλα εἰκότως εἰρῆσθαι
πάνθ' ὅσα διελήλυθας.
Y. Soc.All that account of yours appears, at any rate, very reasonable.
ΞΕ.Λογισάμενοι δὴ συννοήσωμεν τὸ πάθος ἐκ τῶν νῦν
λεχθέντων, ὃ πάντων ἔφαμεν εἶναι τῶν θαυμαστῶν αἴτιον.
ἔστι γὰρ οὖν δὴ τοῦτ' αὐτό.
Str.Then, in the light of what has been said, let us consider and gain understanding of the event which we said was the cause of all those wonderful portents; for it is really just this.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τὸ ποῖον;
Y. Soc.Just what?
ΞΕ.Τὸ τὴν τοῦ παντὸς φορὰν τοτὲ μὲν ἐφ' ἃ νῦν
κυκλεῖται φέρεσθαι, τοτὲ δ' ἐπὶ τἀναντία.
Str.The fact that at certain periods the universe has its present circular motion, and at other periods it revolves in the reverse direction.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς δή;
Y. Soc.How was this the cause?
ΞΕ.Ταύτην τὴν μεταβολὴν ἡγεῖσθαι δεῖ τῶν περὶ τὸν
270c οὐρανὸν γιγνομένων τροπῶν πασῶν εἶναι μεγίστην καὶ
τελεωτάτην τροπήν.
Str.We cannot help believing that of all the changes which take place in the heavens this reversal is the greatest and most complete.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ἔοικε γοῦν.
Y. Soc.It certainly seems to be so.
ΞΕ.Μεγίστας τοίνυν καὶ μεταβολὰς χρὴ νομίζειν γίγνεσθαι
τότε τοῖς ἐντὸς ἡμῖν οἰκοῦσιν αὐτοῦ.
Str.Therefore we must also believe that at the same time the greatest changes come upon us who dwell within the heavens.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Καὶ τοῦτο εἰκός.
Y. Soc.That is likely too.
ΞΕ.Μεταβολὰς δὲ μεγάλας καὶ πολλὰς καὶ παντοίας
συμφερομένας ἆρ' οὐκ ἴσμεν τὴν τῶν ζῴων φύσιν ὅτι χαλεπῶς
ἀνέχεται;
Str.And animals cannot well endure many great and various changes at once. That is a familiar fact, is it not?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς δ' οὔ;
Y. Soc.Of course.
ΞΕ.Φθοραὶ τοίνυν ἐξ ἀνάγκης τότε μέγισται συμβαίνουσι
τῶν τε ἄλλων ζῴων, καὶ δὴ καὶ τὸ τῶν ἀνθρώπων
270d γένος ὀλίγον τι περιλείπεται· περὶ δὲ τούτους ἄλλα τε
παθήματα πολλὰ καὶ θαυμαστὰ καὶ καινὰ συμπίπτει, μέγιςτον
δὲ τόδε καὶ συνεπόμενον τῇ τοῦ παντὸς ἀνειλίξει τότε,
ὅταν ἡ τῆς νῦν καθεστηκυίας ἐναντία γίγνηται τροπή.
Str.Inevitably, then, there is at that time great destruction of animals in general, and only a small part of the human race survives; and the survivors have many experiences wonderful and strange, the greatest of which, a consequence of the reversal of everything at the time when the world begins to turn in the direction opposed to that of its present revolution, is this.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τὸ ποῖον;
Y. Soc.What is that experience?
ΞΕ.Ἣν ἡλικίαν ἕκαστον εἶχε τῶν ζῴων, αὕτη πρῶτον
μὲν ἔστη πάντων, καὶ ἐπαύσατο πᾶν ὅσον ἦν θνητὸν ἐπὶ τὸ
γεραίτερον ἰδεῖν πορευόμενον, μεταβάλλον δὲ πάλιν ἐπὶ
270e τοὐναντίον οἷον νεώτερον καὶ ἁπαλώτερον ἐφύετο· καὶ τῶν
μὲν πρεσβυτέρων αἱ λευκαὶ τρίχες ἐμελαίνοντο, τῶν δ' αὖ
γενειώντων αἱ παρειαὶ λεαινόμεναι πάλιν ἐπὶ τὴν παρελθοῦσαν
ὥραν ἕκαστον καθίστασαν, τῶν δὲ ἡβώντων τὰ
σώματα λεαινόμενα καὶ σμικρότερα καθ' ἡμέραν καὶ νύκτα
ἑκάστην γιγνόμενα πάλιν εἰς τὴν τοῦ νεογενοῦς παιδὸς φύσιν
ἀπῄει, κατά τε τὴν ψυχὴν καὶ κατὰ τὸ σῶμα ἀφομοιούμενα·
τὸ δ' ἐντεῦθεν ἤδη μαραινόμενα κομιδῇ τὸ πάμπαν ἐξηφανίζετο.
τῶν δ' αὖ βιαίως τελευτώντων ἐν τῷ τότε χρόνῳ
τὸ τοῦ νεκροῦ σῶμα τὰ αὐτὰ ταῦτα πάσχον παθήματα διὰ
271a τάχους ἄδηλον ἐν ὀλίγαις ἡμέραις διεφθείρετο.
Str.First the age of all animals, whatever it was at the moment, stood still, and every mortal creature stopped growing older in appearance and then reversed its growth and became, as it were, younger and more tender; the hoary locks of the old men grew dark, and bearded cheeks grew smooth again as their possessors reverted to their earlier ages, and the bodies of young men grew smoother and smaller day by day and night by night, until they became as new-born babes, to which they were likened in mind and body; and then at last they wasted away entirely and wholly disappeared. And the bodies of those who died by violence in those times quickly underwent the same changes, were destroyed, and disappeared in a few days.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Γένεσις δὲ δὴ τίς τότ' ἦν, ὦ ξένε, ζῴων; καὶ
τίνα τρόπον ἐξ ἀλλήλων ἐγεννῶντο;
Y. Soc.But then, Stranger, how did animals come into existence in those days? How were they begotten of one another?
ΞΕ.Δῆλον, ὦ Σώκρατες, ὅτι τὸ μὲν ἐξ ἀλλήλων οὐκ ἦν
ἐν τῇ τότε φύσει γεννώμενον, τὸ δὲ γηγενὲς εἶναί ποτε
γένος λεχθὲν τοῦτ' ἦν τὸ κατ' ἐκεῖνον τὸν χρόνον ἐκ γῆς
πάλιν ἀναστρεφόμενον, ἀπεμνημονεύετο δὲ ὑπὸ τῶν ἡμετέρων
προγόνων τῶν πρώτων, οἳ τελευτώσῃ μὲν τῇ προτέρᾳ
271b περιφορᾷ τὸν ἑξῆς χρόνον ἐγειτόνουν, τῆσδε δὲ κατ' ἀρχὰς
ἐφύοντο· τούτων γὰρ οὗτοι κήρυκες ἐγένονθ' ἡμῖν τῶν λόγων,
οἳ νῦν ὑπὸ πολλῶν οὐκ ὀρθῶς ἀπιστοῦνται. τὸ γὰρ ἐντεῦθεν
οἶμαι χρὴ συννοεῖν. ἑπόμενον γάρ ἐστι τῷ τοὺς πρεσβύτας
ἐπὶ τὴν τοῦ παιδὸς ἰέναι φύσιν, ἐκ τῶν τετελευτηκότων
αὖ, κειμένων δὲ ἐν γῇ, πάλιν ἐκεῖ συνισταμένους καὶ ἀναβιωσκομένους,
ἕπεσθαι τῇ τροπῇ συνανακυκλουμένης εἰς
τἀναντία τῆς γενέσεως, καὶ γηγενεῖς δὴ κατὰ τοῦτον τὸν
271c λόγον ἐξ ἀνάγκης φυομένους, οὕτως ἔχειν τοὔνομα καὶ τὸν
λόγον, ὅσους μὴ θεὸς αὐτῶν εἰς ἄλλην μοῖραν ἐκόμισεν.
Str.It is clear, Socrates, that being begotten of one another was no part of the natural order of that time, but the earth-born race which, according to tradition, once existed, was the race which returned at that time out of the earth; and the memory of it was preserved by our earliest ancestors, who were born in the beginning of our period and therefore were next neighbors to the end of the previous period of the world’s revolution, with no interval between. For they were to us the heralds of these stories which are nowadays unduly disbelieved by many people. For you must, I think, consider what would result. It is a natural consequence of the return of the old to childhood that those who are dead and lying in the earth take shape and come to life again, since the process of birth is reversed along with the reversal of the world’s revolution; for this reason they are inevitably earth-born, and hence arises their name and the tradition about them, except those of them whom God removed to some other fate.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Κομιδῇ μὲν οὖν τοῦτό γε ἕπεται τοῖς ἔμπροσθεν.
ἀλλὰ δὴ τὸν βίον ὃν ἐπὶ τῆς Κρόνου φῂς εἶναι
δυνάμεως, πότερον ἐν ἐκείναις ἦν ταῖς τροπαῖς ἢ ἐν ταῖσδε;
τὴν μὲν γὰρ τῶν ἄστρων τε καὶ ἡλίου μεταβολὴν δῆλον ὡς
ἐν ἑκατέραις συμπίπτει ταῖς τροπαῖς γίγνεσθαι.
Y. Soc.Certainly that follows from what preceded. But was the life in the reign of Cronus, which you mentioned, in that previous period of revolution or in ours? For evidently the change in the course of the stars and the sun takes place in both periods.
ΞΕ.Καλῶς τῷ λόγῳ συμπαρηκολούθηκας. ὃ δ' ἤρου
271d περὶ τοῦ πάντα αὐτόματα γίγνεσθαι τοῖς ἀνθρώποις, ἥκιστα
τῆς νῦν ἐστι καθεστηκυίας φορᾶς, ἀλλ' ἦν καὶ τοῦτο τῆς
ἔμπροσθεν. τότε γὰρ αὐτῆς πρῶτον τῆς κυκλήσεως ἦρχεν
ἐπιμελούμενος ὅλης ὁ θεός, ὣς δ' αὖ κατὰ τόπους ταὐτὸν τοῦτο,
ὑπὸ θεῶν ἀρχόντων πάντ' ἦν τὰ τοῦ κόσμου μέρη διειλημμένα·
καὶ δὴ καὶ τὰ ζῷα κατὰ γένη καὶ ἀγέλας οἷον νομῆς θεῖοι
διειλήφεσαν δαίμονες, αὐτάρκης εἰς πάντα ἕκαστος ἑκάστοις
271e ὢν οἷς αὐτὸς ἔνεμεν, ὥστε οὔτ' ἄγριον ἦν οὐδὲν οὔτε ἀλλήλων
ἐδωδαί, πόλεμός τε οὐκ ἐνῆν οὐδὲ στάσις τὸ παράπαν·
ἄλλα θ' ὅσα τῆς τοιαύτης ἐστὶ κατακοσμήσεως ἑπόμενα,
μυρία ἂν εἴη λέγειν. τὸ δ' οὖν τῶν ἀνθρώπων λεχθὲν
αὐτομάτου πέρι βίου διὰ τὸ τοιόνδε εἴρηται. θεὸς ἔνεμεν
αὐτοὺς αὐτὸς ἐπιστατῶν, καθάπερ νῦν ἄνθρωποι, ζῷον ὂν
ἕτερον θειότερον, ἄλλα γένη φαυλότερα αὑτῶν νομεύουσι·
νέμοντος δὲ ἐκείνου πολιτεῖαί τε οὐκ ἦσαν οὐδὲ κτήσεις
272a γυναικῶν καὶ παίδων· ἐκ γῆς γὰρ ἀνεβιώσκοντο πάντες,
οὐδὲν μεμνημένοι τῶν πρόσθεν· ἀλλὰ τὰ μὲν τοιαῦτα ἀπῆν
πάντα, καρποὺς δὲ ἀφθόνους εἶχον ἀπό τε δένδρων καὶ
πολλῆς ὕλης ἄλλης, οὐχ ὑπὸ γεωργίας φυομένους, ἀλλ'
αὐτομάτης ἀναδιδούσης τῆς γῆς. γυμνοὶ δὲ καὶ ἄστρωτοι
θυραυλοῦντες τὰ πολλὰ ἐνέμοντο· τὸ γὰρ τῶν ὡρῶν αὐτοῖς
ἄλυπον ἐκέκρατο, μαλακὰς δὲ εὐνὰς εἶχον ἀναφυομένης ἐκ
272b γῆς πόας ἀφθόνου. τὸν δὴ βίον, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἀκούεις μὲν
τὸν τῶν ἐπὶ Κρόνου· τόνδε δ' ὃν λόγος ἐπὶ Διὸς εἶναι, τὸν
νυνί, παρὼν αὐτὸς ᾔσθησαι· κρῖναι δ' αὐτοῖν τὸν εὐδαιμονέστερον
ἆρ' ἂν δύναιό τε καὶ ἐθελήσειας;
Str.You have followed my account very well. No, the life about which you ask, when all the fruits of the earth sprang up of their own accord for men, did not belong at all to the present period of revolution, but this also belonged to the previous one. For then, in the beginning, God ruled and supervised the whole revolution, and so again, in the same way, all the parts of the universe were divided by regions among gods who ruled them, and, moreover, the animals were distributed by species and flocks among inferior deities as divine shepherds, each of whom was in all respects the independent guardian of the creatures under his own care, so that no creature was wild, nor did they eat one another, and there was no war among them, nor any strife whatsoever. To tell all the other consequences of such an order of the world would be an endless task. But the reason for the story of the spontaneous life of mankind is as follows:
God himself was their shepherd, watching over them, just as man, being an animal of different and more divine nature than the rest, now tends the lower species of animals. And under his care there were no states, nor did men possess wives or children; for they all came to life again out of the earth, with no recollection of their former lives. So there were no states or families, but they had fruits in plenty from the trees and other plants, which the earth furnished them of its own accord, without help from agriculture. And they lived for the most part in the open air, without clothing or bedding; for the climate was tempered for their comfort, and the abundant grass that grew up out of the earth furnished them soft couches. That, Socrates, was the life of men in the reign of Cronus; but the life of the present age, which is said to be the age of Zeus, you know by your own experience. Would you be able and willing to decide which of them is the more blessed?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Οὐδαμῶς.
Y. Soc.Certainly not.
ΞΕ.Βούλει δῆτα ἐγώ σοι τρόπον τινὰ διακρίνω;
Str.Shall I, then, make some sort of a judgement for you?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πάνυ μὲν οὖν.
Y. Soc.Do so, by all means.
ΞΕ.Εἰ μὲν τοίνυν οἱ τρόφιμοι τοῦ Κρόνου, παρούσης
αὐτοῖς οὕτω πολλῆς σχολῆς καὶ δυνάμεως πρὸς τὸ μὴ μόνον
ἀνθρώποις ἀλλὰ καὶ θηρίοις διὰ λόγων δύνασθαι συγγίγνεσθαι,
272c κατεχρῶντο τούτοις σύμπασιν ἐπὶ φιλοσοφίαν, μετά
τε θηρίων καὶ μετ' ἀλλήλων ὁμιλοῦντες, καὶ πυνθανόμενοι
παρὰ πάσης φύσεως εἴ τινά τις ἰδίαν δύναμιν ἔχουσα ᾔσθετό
τι διάφορον τῶν ἄλλων εἰς συναγυρμὸν φρονήσεως, εὔκριτον
ὅτι τῶν νῦν οἱ τότε μυρίῳ πρὸς εὐδαιμονίαν διέφερον· εἰ δ'
ἐμπιμπλάμενοι σίτων ἅδην καὶ ποτῶν διελέγοντο πρὸς ἀλλήλους
καὶ τὰ θηρία [μύθους] οἷα δὴ καὶ τὰ νῦν περὶ αὐτῶν
272d λέγονται, καὶ τοῦτο, ὥς γε κατὰ τὴν ἐμὴν δόξαν ἀποφήνασθαι,
καὶ μάλ' εὔκριτον. ὅμως δ' οὖν ταῦτα μὲν ἀφῶμεν, ἕως ἂν
ἡμῖν μηνυτής τις ἱκανὸς φανῇ, ποτέρως οἱ τότε τὰς ἐπιθυμίας
εἶχον περί τε ἐπιστημῶν καὶ τῆς τῶν λόγων χρείας·
οὗ δ' ἕνεκα τὸν μῦθον ἠγείραμεν, τοῦτο λεκτέον, ἵνα τὸ
μετὰ τοῦτο εἰς τὸ πρόσθεν περαίνωμεν. ἐπειδὴ γὰρ πάντων
τούτων χρόνος ἐτελεώθη καὶ μεταβολὴν ἔδει γίγνεσθαι καὶ
272e δὴ καὶ τὸ γήινον ἤδη πᾶν ἀνήλωτο γένος, πάσας ἑκάστης
τῆς ψυχῆς τὰς γενέσεις ἀποδεδωκυίας, ὅσα ἦν ἑκάστῃ προςταχθὲν
τοσαῦτα εἰς γῆν σπέρματα πεσούσης, τότε δὴ τοῦ
παντὸς ὁ μὲν κυβερνήτης, οἷον πηδαλίων οἴακος ἀφέμενος,
εἰς τὴν αὑτοῦ περιωπὴν ἀπέστη, τὸν δὲ δὴ κόσμον πάλιν
ἀνέστρεφεν εἱμαρμένη τε καὶ σύμφυτος ἐπιθυμία. πάντες
οὖν οἱ κατὰ τοὺς τόπους συνάρχοντες τῷ μεγίστῳ δαίμονι
θεοί, γνόντες ἤδη τὸ γιγνόμενον, ἀφίεσαν αὖ τὰ μέρη τοῦ
273a κόσμου τῆς αὑτῶν ἐπιμελείας· ὁ δὲ μεταστρεφόμενος καὶ
συμβάλλων, ἀρχῆς τε καὶ τελευτῆς ἐναντίαν ὁρμὴν ὁρμηθείς,
σεισμὸν πολὺν ἐν ἑαυτῷ ποιῶν ἄλλην αὖ φθορὰν ζῴων
παντοίων ἀπηργάσατο. μετὰ δὲ ταῦτα προελθόντος ἱκανοῦ
χρόνου, θορύβων τε καὶ ταραχῆς ἤδη παυόμενος καὶ τῶν
σεισμῶν γαλήνης ἐπιλαβόμενος εἴς τε τὸν εἰωθότα δρόμον
τὸν ἑαυτοῦ κατακοσμούμενος ᾔει, ἐπιμέλειαν καὶ κράτος ἔχων
273b αὐτὸς τῶν ἐν αὑτῷ τε καὶ ἑαυτοῦ, τὴν τοῦ δημιουργοῦ καὶ
πατρὸς ἀπομνημονεύων διδαχὴν εἰς δύναμιν. κατ' ἀρχὰς
μὲν οὖν ἀκριβέστερον ἀπετέλει, τελευτῶν δὲ ἀμβλύτερον·
τούτων δὲ αὐτῷ τὸ σωματοειδὲς τῆς συγκράσεως αἴτιον, τὸ
τῆς πάλαι ποτὲ φύσεως σύντροφον, ὅτι πολλῆς ἦν μετέχον
ἀταξίας πρὶν εἰς τὸν νῦν κόσμον ἀφικέσθαι. παρὰ μὲν γὰρ
τοῦ συνθέντος πάντα καλὰ κέκτηται· παρὰ δὲ τῆς ἔμπροσθεν
273c ἕξεως, ὅσα χαλεπὰ καὶ ἄδικα ἐν οὐρανῷ γίγνεται, ταῦτα ἐξ
ἐκείνης αὐτός τε ἔχει καὶ τοῖς ζῴοις ἐναπεργάζεται. μετὰ
μὲν οὖν τοῦ κυβερνήτου τὰ ζῷα τρέφων ἐν αὑτῷ σμικρὰ μὲν
φλαῦρα, μεγάλα δὲ ἐνέτικτεν ἀγαθά· χωριζόμενος δὲ ἐκείνου
τὸν ἐγγύτατα χρόνον ἀεὶ τῆς ἀφέσεως κάλλιστα πάντα
διάγει, προϊόντος δὲ τοῦ χρόνου καὶ λήθης ἐγγιγνομένης ἐν
αὐτῷ μᾶλλον καὶ δυναστεύει τὸ τῆς παλαιᾶς ἀναρμοστίας
273d πάθος, τελευτῶντος δὲ ἐξανθεῖ τοῦ χρόνου καὶ σμικρὰ μὲν
τἀγαθά, πολλὴν δὲ τὴν τῶν ἐναντίων κρᾶσιν ἐπεγκεραννύμενος
ἐπὶ διαφθορᾶς κίνδυνον αὑτοῦ τε ἀφικνεῖται καὶ τῶν
ἐν αὑτῷ. διὸ δὴ καὶ τότ' ἤδη θεὸς ὁ κοσμήσας αὐτόν, καθορῶν
ἐν ἀπορίαις ὄντα, κηδόμενος ἵνα μὴ χειμασθεὶς ὑπὸ
ταραχῆς διαλυθεὶς εἰς τὸν τῆς ἀνομοιότητος ἄπειρον ὄντα
273e πόντον δύῃ, πάλιν ἔφεδρος αὐτοῦ τῶν πηδαλίων γιγνόμενος,
τὰ νοσήσαντα καὶ λυθέντα ἐν τῇ καθ' ἑαυτὸν προτέρᾳ περιόδῳ
στρέψας, κοσμεῖ τε καὶ ἐπανορθῶν ἀθάνατον αὐτὸν καὶ
ἀγήρων ἀπεργάζεται. τοῦτο μὲν οὖν τέλος ἁπάντων εἴρηται·
τὸ δ' ἐπὶ τὴν τοῦ βασιλέως ἀπόδειξιν ἱκανὸν ἐκ τοῦ πρόσθεν
ἁπτομένοις τοῦ λόγου· στρεφθέντος γὰρ αὖ τοῦ κόσμου τὴν
ἐπὶ τὴν νῦν γένεσιν ὁδὸν τὸ τῆς ἡλικίας αὖ πάλιν ἵστατο
καὶ καινὰ τἀναντία ἀπεδίδου τοῖς τότε. τὰ μὲν γὰρ ὑπὸ
σμικρότητος ὀλίγου δέοντα ἠφανίσθαι τῶν ζῴων ηὐξάνετο,
τὰ δ' ἐκ γῆς νεογενῆ σώματα πολιὰ φύντα πάλιν ἀποθνῄσκοντα
εἰς γῆν κατῄει. καὶ τἆλλά τε πάντα μετέβαλλε,
274a ἀπομιμούμενα καὶ συνακολουθοῦντα τῷ τοῦ παντὸς παθήματι,
καὶ δὴ καὶ τὸ τῆς κυήσεως καὶ γεννήσεως καὶ τροφῆς μίμημα
συνείπετο τοῖς πᾶσιν ὑπ' ἀνάγκης· οὐ γὰρ ἐξῆν ἔτ' ἐν γῇ δι'
ἑτέρων συνιστάντων φύεσθαι ζῷον, ἀλλὰ καθάπερ τῷ κόσμῳ
προσετέτακτο αὐτοκράτορα εἶναι τῆς αὑτοῦ πορείας, οὕτω δὴ
κατὰ ταὐτὰ καὶ τοῖς μέρεσιν αὐτοῖς δι' αὑτῶν, καθ' ὅσον οἷόν
τ' ἦν, φύειν τε καὶ γεννᾶν καὶ τρέφειν προσετάττετο ὑπὸ τῆς
274b ὁμοίας ἀγωγῆς. οὗ δὲ ἕνεκα ὁ λόγος ὥρμηκε πᾶς, ἐπ' αὐτῷ
νῦν ἐσμὲν ἤδη. περὶ μὲν γὰρ τῶν ἄλλων θηρίων πολλὰ ἂν
καὶ μακρὰ διεξελθεῖν γίγνοιτο, ἐξ ὧν ἕκαστα καὶ δι' ἃς αἰτίας
μεταβέβληκε· περὶ δὲ ἀνθρώπων βραχύτερα καὶ μᾶλλον
προσήκοντα. τῆς γὰρ τοῦ κεκτημένου καὶ νέμοντος ἡμᾶς
δαίμονος ἀπερημωθέντες ἐπιμελείας, τῶν πολλῶν αὖ θηρίων,
ὅσα χαλεπὰ τὰς φύσεις ἦν, ἀπαγριωθέντων, αὐτοὶ δὲ ἀσθενεῖς
ἄνθρωποι καὶ ἀφύλακτοι γεγονότες διηρπάζοντο ὑπ'
274c αὐτῶν, καὶ ἔτ' ἀμήχανοι καὶ ἄτεχνοι κατὰ τοὺς πρώτους
ἦσαν χρόνους, ἅτε τῆς μὲν αὐτομάτης τροφῆς ἐπιλελοιπυίας,
πορίζεσθαι δὲ οὐκ ἐπιστάμενοί πω διὰ τὸ μηδεμίαν αὐτοὺς
χρείαν πρότερον ἀναγκάζειν. ἐκ τούτων πάντων ἐν μεγάλαις
ἀπορίαις ἦσαν. ὅθεν δὴ τὰ πάλαι λεχθέντα παρὰ
θεῶν δῶρα ἡμῖν δεδώρηται μετ' ἀναγκαίας διδαχῆς καὶ παιδεύσεως,
πῦρ μὲν παρὰ Προμηθέως, τέχναι δὲ παρ' Ἡφαίστου
274d καὶ τῆς συντέχνου, σπέρματα δὲ αὖ καὶ φυτὰ παρ'
ἄλλων· καὶ πάνθ' ὁπόσα τὸν ἀνθρώπινον βίον συγκατεσκεύακεν
ἐκ τούτων γέγονεν, ἐπειδὴ τὸ μὲν ἐκ θεῶν, ὅπερ
ἐρρήθη νυνδή, τῆς ἐπιμελείας ἐπέλιπεν ἀνθρώπους, δι' ἑαυτῶν
τε ἔδει τήν τε διαγωγὴν καὶ τὴν ἐπιμέλειαν αὐτοὺς αὑτῶν
ἔχειν καθάπερ ὅλος ὁ κόσμος, ᾧ συμμιμούμενοι καὶ συνεπόμενοι
τὸν ἀεὶ χρόνον νῦν μὲν οὕτως, τοτὲ δὲ ἐκείνως ζῶμέν
274e τε καὶ φυόμεθα. καὶ τὸ μὲν δὴ τοῦ μύθου τέλος ἐχέτω,
χρήσιμον δὲ αὐτὸν ποιησόμεθα πρὸς τὸ κατιδεῖν ὅσον ἡμάρτομεν
ἀποφηνάμενοι τὸν βασιλικόν τε καὶ πολιτικὸν ἐν τῷ
πρόσθε λόγῳ.
Str.Well, then, if the foster children of Cronus, having all this leisure and the ability to converse not only with human beings but also with beasts, made full use of all these opportunities with a view to philosophy, talking with the animals and with one another and learning from every creature that, through possession of some peculiar power he may have had in any respect beyond his fellows perceptions tending towards an increase of wisdom, it would be easy to decide that the people of those old times were immeasurably happier than those of our epoch. Or if they merely ate and drank till they were full and gossiped with each other and the animals, telling such stories as are even now told about them, in that case, too, it would, in my opinion, be very easy to reach a decision. However, let us pass those matters by, so long as there is no one capable of reporting to us what the desires of the people in those days were in regard to knowledge and the employment of speech. The reason why we revived this legend must be told, in order that we may get ahead afterwards. For when the time of all those conditions was accomplished and the change was to take place and all the earth-born race had at length been used up, since every soul had fulfilled all its births by falling into the earth as seed its prescribed number of times, then the helmsman of the universe dropped the tiller and withdrew to his place of outlook, and fate and innate desire made the earth turn backwards.
So, too, all the gods who share, each in his own sphere, the rule of the Supreme Spirit, promptly perceiving what was taking place, let go the parts of the world which were under their care. And as the universe was turned back and there came the shock of collision, as the beginning and the end rushed in opposite directions, it produced a great earthquake within itself and caused a new destruction of all sorts of living creatures. But after that, when a sufficient time had elapsed, there was rest now from disturbance and confusion, calm followed the earthquakes, and the world went on its own accustomed course in orderly fashion, exercising care and rule over itself and all within itself, and remembering and practising the teachings of the Creator and Father to the extent of its power, at first more accurately and at last more carelessly; and the reason for this was the material element in its composition, because this element, which was inherent in the primeval nature, was infected with great disorder before the attainment of the existing orderly universe. For from its Composer the universe has received only good things; but from its previous condition it retains in itself and creates in the animals all the elements of harshness and injustice which have their origin in the heavens. Now as long as the world was nurturing the animals within itself under the guidance of the Pilot, it produced little evil and great good; but in becoming separated from him it always got on most excellently during the time immediately after it was let go, but as time went on and it grew forgetful, the ancient condition of disorder prevailed more and more and towards the end of the time reached its height, and the universe, mingling but little good with much of the opposite sort, was in danger of destruction for itself and those within it. Therefore at that moment God, who made the order of the universe, perceived that it was in dire trouble, and fearing that it might founder in the tempest of confusion and sink in the boundless sea of diversity, he took again his place as its helmsman, reversed whatever had become unsound and unsettled in the previous period when the world was left to itself, set the world in order, restored it and made it immortal and ageless. So now the whole tale is told; but for our purpose of exhibiting the nature of the king it will be enough to revert to the earlier part of the story. For when the universe was turned again into the present path of generation, the age of individuals came again to a stop, and that led to new processes, the reverse of those which had gone before. For the animals which had grown so small as almost to disappear grew larger, and those newly born from the earth with hoary hair died and passed below the earth again.
And all other things changed, imitating the condition of the universe and conforming to it, and so too pregnancy and birth and nurture necessarily imitated and conformed to the rest; for no living creature could any longer come into being by the union of other elements, but just as the universe was ordered to be the ruler of its own course, so in the same way the parts were ordered, so far as they could, to grow and beget and give nourishment of themselves under the same guidance. And now we have come at last to the point for the sake of which this whole discourse was begun. For much might be said, and at great length, about the other animals, their previous forms and the causes of their several changes; but about mankind there is less to say and it is more to our purpose. For men, deprived of the care of the deity who had possessed and tended us, since most of the beasts who were by nature unfriendly had grown fierce, and they themselves were feeble and unprotected, were ravaged by the beasts and were in the first ages still without resources or skill; the food which had formerly offered itself freely had failed them, and they did not yet know how to provide for themselves, because no necessity had hitherto compelled them. On all these accounts they were in great straits; and that is the reason why the gifts of the gods that are told of in the old traditions were given us with the needful information and instruction,—fire by Prometheus, the arts by Hephaestus and the goddess who is his fellow-artisan, seeds and plants by other deities. And from these has arisen all that constitutes human life, since, as I said a moment ago, the care of the gods had failed men and they had to direct their own lives and take care of themselves, like the whole universe, which we imitate and follow through all time, being born and living now in our present manner and in that other epoch in the other manner. So, then, let our tale be finished; but we will turn it to account for opening our eyes to the great error we made in the exposition of the king and the statesman in our earlier discussion.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς οὖν καὶ πόσον ἁμάρτημα φῂς εἶναι γεγονὸς
ἡμῖν;
Y. Soc.How, then, did we err, and what is the great error you say we have committed?
ΞΕ.Τῇ μὲν βραχύτερον, τῇ δὲ μάλα γενναῖον καὶ πολλῷ
μεῖζον καὶ πλέον ἢ τότε.
Str.In one way we made a comparatively slight error, in another a very important one, much greater and more far-reaching than the first.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς;
Y. Soc.How did we do that?
ΞΕ.Ὅτι μὲν ἐρωτώμενοι τὸν ἐκ τῆς νῦν περιφορᾶς καὶ
γενέσεως βασιλέα καὶ πολιτικὸν τὸν ἐκ τῆς ἐναντίας περιόδου
275a ποιμένα τῆς τότε ἀνθρωπίνης ἀγέλης εἴπομεν, καὶ ταῦτα θεὸν
ἀντὶ θνητοῦ, ταύτῃ μὲν πάμπολυ παρηνέχθημεν· ὅτι δὲ
συμπάσης τῆς πόλεως ἄρχοντα αὐτὸν ἀπεφήναμεν, ὅντινα
δὲ τρόπον οὐ διείπομεν, ταύτῃ δὲ αὖ τὸ μὲν λεχθὲν ἀληθές,
οὐ μὴν ὅλον γε οὐδὲ σαφὲς ἐρρήθη, διὸ καὶ βραχύτερον ἢ
κατ' ἐκεῖνο ἡμαρτήκαμεν.
Str.When we were asked about the king and the statesman of the present movement of the world and mode of generation, we told of the shepherd of the human flock in the time of the reverse movement, and he was a god, not a man, besides. That was a very great error. Then when we declared that he was ruler of the whole state, but did not fully tell in what manner he ruled, what we said was true, though it was not complete nor clear, and therefore our error was less in this case than in the other.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ἀληθῆ.
Y. Soc.True.
ΞΕ.Δεῖ τοίνυν τὸν τρόπον, ὡς ἔοικε, διορίσαντας τῆς
ἀρχῆς τῆς πόλεως οὕτω τελέως τὸν πολιτικὸν ἡμῖν εἰρῆσθαι
προσδοκᾶν.
Str.Apparently, then, we must expect a complete description of the statesman only when we have defined the manner of his rule over the state.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Καλῶς.
Y. Soc.Very good.
275b ΞΕ.Διὰ ταῦτα μὴν καὶ τὸν μῦθον παρεθέμεθα, ἵνα ἐνδείξαιτο
περὶ τῆς ἀγελαιοτροφίας μὴ μόνον ὡς πάντες αὐτῆς
ἀμφισβητοῦσι τῷ ζητουμένῳ τὰ νῦν, ἀλλὰ κἀκεῖνον αὐτὸν
ἐναργέστερον ἴδοιμεν, ὃν προσήκει μόνον κατὰ τὸ παράδειγμα
ποιμένων τε καὶ βουκόλων τῆς ἀνθρωπίνης ἐπιμέλειαν ἔχοντα
τροφῆς τούτου μόνον ἀξιωθῆναι τοῦ προσρήματος.
Str.And this is why I introduced the myth, not only in order to show that all men compete for the care of the flock with him whom we are now seeking, but also that we may more clearly see him who alone ought to have the care of human beings as shepherds and neatherds care for their flocks and herds, and therefore alone deserves to be honored with that appellation.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ὀρθῶς.
Y. Soc.Quite right.
ΞΕ.Οἶμαι δέ γ', ὦ Σώκρατες, τοῦτο μὲν ἔτι μεῖζον ἢ
275c κατὰ βασιλέα εἶναι τὸ σχῆμα τὸ τοῦ θείου νομέως, τοὺς δ'
ἐνθάδε νῦν ὄντας πολιτικοὺς τοῖς ἀρχομένοις ὁμοίους τε
εἶναι μᾶλλον πολὺ τὰς φύσεις καὶ παραπλησιαίτερον παιδείας
μετειληφέναι καὶ τροφῆς.
Str.I think, Socrates, that the form of the divine shepherd is greater than that of the king, whereas the statesmen who now exist here are by nature much more like their subjects, with whom they share much more nearly the same breeding and education.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πάντως που.
Y. Soc.Certainly.
ΞΕ.Ζητητέοι γε μὴν οὐδὲν ἂν εἴησαν οὔθ' ἧττον οὔτε
μᾶλλον, εἴθ' οὕτως εἴτ' ἐκείνως πεφύκασιν.
Str.And yet they would have to be investigated with precisely the same care, whether their nature be like that of their subjects or like that of the divine shepherd.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς γὰρ οὔ;
Y. Soc.Of course.
ΞΕ.Τῇδε δὴ πάλιν ἐπανέλθωμεν. ἣν γὰρ ἔφαμεν αὐτεπιτακτικὴν
μὲν εἶναι τέχνην ἐπὶ ζῴοις, οὐ μὴν ἰδίᾳ γε ἀλλὰ
275d κοινῇ τὴν ἐπιμέλειαν ἔχουσαν, καὶ προσείπομεν δὴ τότε εὐθὺς
ἀγελαιοτροφικήν—μέμνησαι γάρ;
Str.Then let us go back to this point: the art which we said gave its own orders and had to do with living beings, but had charge of them not singly but in common, and which we at once called the art of the herdsman,—do you remember?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ναί.
Y. Soc.Yes.
ΞΕ.Ταύτης τοίνυν πῃ διημαρτάνομεν. τὸν γὰρ πολιτικὸν
οὐδαμοῦ συνελάβομεν οὐδ' ὠνομάσαμεν, ἀλλ' ἡμᾶς ἔλαθεν κατὰ
τὴν ὀνομασίαν ἐκφυγών.
Str.Well, it was in connection with that, somewhere, that we made our mistake; for we never included or named the statesman; unobserved by us he slipped out of our nomenclature.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς;
Y. Soc.How so?
ΞΕ.Τοῦ τὰς ἀγέλας ἑκάστας τρέφειν τοῖς μὲν ἄλλοις
που πᾶσι μέτεστι νομεῦσι, τῷ πολιτικῷ δὲ οὐ μετὸν ἐπηνέγκαμεν
275e τοὔνομα, δέον τῶν κοινῶν ἐπενεγκεῖν τι σύμπασιν.
Str.All the other herdsmen have this in common that they feed their respective herds; but the statesman does not, yet we gave him the name of herdsman, when we ought to have given him one which is common to them all.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ἀληθῆ λέγεις, εἴπερ ἐτύγχανέ γε ὄν.
Y. Soc.True, if there were such a name.
ΞΕ.Πῶς δ' οὐκ ἦν τό γε θεραπεύειν που πᾶσι κοινόν,
μηδὲν διορισθείσης τροφῆς μηδέ τινος ἄλλης πραγματείας;
ἀλλ' ἤ τινα ἀγελαιοκομικὴν ἢ θεραπευτικὴν ἢ καί τινα
ἐπιμελητικὴν αὐτὴν ὀνομάσασιν ὡς κατὰ πάντων ἐξῆν περικαλύπτειν
καὶ τὸν πολιτικὸν ἅμα τοῖς ἄλλοις, ἐπειδὴ δεῖν
τοῦτ' ἐσήμαινεν ὁ λόγος.
Str.Is not caring for herds common to them all, with no especial mention of feeding or any other activity? If we called it an art of tending herds or caring for them or managing them, as all herdsmen do, we could wrap up the statesman with the rest, since the argument showed that we ought to do so.
276a ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ὀρθῶς. ἀλλ' ἡ μετὰ τοῦτο διαίρεσις αὖ τίνα
τρόπον ἐγίγνετ' ἄν;
Y. Soc.Quite right; but how would the next division be made?
ΞΕ.Κατὰ ταὐτὰ καθ' ἅπερ ἔμπροσθεν διῃρούμεθα τὴν
ἀγελαιοτροφικὴν πεζοῖς τε καὶ ἀπτῆσι, καὶ ἀμείκτοις τε καὶ
ἀκεράτοις, τοῖς αὐτοῖς ἄν που τούτοις διαιρούμενοι καὶ τὴν
ἀγελαιοκομικὴν τήν τε νῦν καὶ τὴν ἐπὶ Κρόνου βασιλείαν
περιειληφότες ἂν ἦμεν ὁμοίως ἐν τῷ λόγῳ.
Str.Just as we divided the art of feeding herds before by distinguishing between those that go on foot and the winged, and the unmixed breeds and the hornless, we might divide the art of tending herds by these same distinctions, embracing in the word both the kingship of the present time and that of the time of Cronus.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Φαίνεται· ζητῶ δὲ αὖ τί τὸ μετὰ τοῦτο.
Y. Soc.Evidently; but again I wonder what the next step is.
ΞΕ.Δῆλον ὅτι λεχθέντος οὕτω τοῦ τῆς ἀγελαιοκομικῆς
276b ὀνόματος οὐκ ἄν ποτε ἐγένεθ' ἡμῖν τό τινας ἀμφισβητεῖν
ὡς οὐδ' ἐπιμέλεια τὸ παράπαν ἐστίν, ὥσπερ τότε δικαίως
ἠμφεσβητήθη μηδεμίαν εἶναι τέχνην ἐν ἡμῖν ἀξίαν τούτου τοῦ
θρεπτικοῦ προσρήματος, εἰ δ' οὖν τις εἴη, πολλοῖς πρότερον
αὐτῆς καὶ μᾶλλον προσήκειν ἤ τινι τῶν βασιλέων.
Str.It Is clear that if we had used the word tending herds, we should never have met with the contention that there is no caring for them at all in statesmanship, though the earlier contention was justified that there is no art in the case of human beings that deserves the name of feeding, and if there be such an art, it belongs much more to many others than to the king.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ὀρθῶς.
Y. Soc.Quite right.
ΞΕ.Ἐπιμέλεια δέ γε ἀνθρωπίνης συμπάσης κοινωνίας
οὐδεμία ἂν ἐθελήσειεν ἑτέρα μᾶλλον καὶ προτέρα τῆς βασιλικῆς
276c φάναι καὶ κατὰ πάντων ἀνθρώπων ἀρχῆς εἶναι τέχνη.
Str.But no other art would advance a stronger claim than that of kingship to be the art of caring for the whole human community and ruling all mankind.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Λέγεις ὀρθῶς.
Y. Soc.You are right.
ΞΕ.Μετὰ ταῦτα δέ γε, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἆρ' ἐννοοῦμεν ὅτι
πρὸς αὐτῷ δὴ τῷ τέλει συχνὸν αὖ διημαρτάνετο;
Str.And after all this, Socrates, do we see that another great error was committed at the very end?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τὸ ποῖον;
Y. Soc.What was it?
ΞΕ.Τόδε, ὡς ἄρ' εἰ καὶ διενοήθημεν ὅτι μάλιστα τῆς
δίποδος ἀγέλης εἶναί τινα θρεπτικὴν τέχνην, οὐδέν τι
μᾶλλον ἡμᾶς ἔδει βασιλικὴν αὐτὴν εὐθὺς καὶ πολιτικὴν ὡς
ἀποτετελεσμένην προσαγορεύειν.
Str.Why, it was this: No matter how strong our belief that there was an art of feeding the biped herd, we ought not to have called it kingship and statecraft on the spot, as if it were all quite settled.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τί μήν;
Y. Soc.What ought we to have done, then?
ΞΕ.Πρῶτον μέν, ὃ λέγομεν, τοὔνομα μετασκευωρήσασθαι,
276d πρὸς τὴν ἐπιμέλειαν μᾶλλον προσαγαγόντας ἢ
τὴν τροφήν, ἔπειτα ταύτην τέμνειν· οὐ γὰρ σμικρὰς ἂν ἔχοι
τμήσεις ἔτι.
Str.In the first place, as we said, we ought to have remodelled the name, making it denote care, rather than feeding, and then we ought to have divided the art, for it may still admit of not unimportant divisions.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ποίας;
Y. Soc.What are they?
ΞΕ.Ἧι τε τὸν θεῖον ἄν που διειλόμεθα νομέα χωρὶς καὶ
τὸν ἀνθρώπινον ἐπιμελητήν.
Str.There is one by which we might have divided the divine shepherd from the human caretaker.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ὀρθῶς.
Y. Soc.Quite right.
ΞΕ.Αὖθις δέ γε τὴν ἀπονεμηθεῖσαν ἐπιμελητικὴν δίχα
τέμνειν ἀναγκαῖον ἦν.
Str.And again it was essential that the art of caretaking thus isolated and assigned to man be divided into two parts.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τίνι;
Y. Soc.On what line of division?
ΞΕ.Τῷ βιαίῳ τε καὶ ἑκουσίῳ.
Str.On that of compulsory and voluntary.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τί δή;
Y. Soc.Why is that?
276e ΞΕ.Καὶ ταύτῃ που τὸ πρότερον ἁμαρτάνοντες εὐηθέστερα
τοῦ δέοντος εἰς ταὐτὸν βασιλέα καὶ τύραννον συνέθεμεν,
ἀνομοιοτάτους ὄντας αὐτούς τε καὶ τὸν τῆς ἀρχῆς ἑκατέρου
τρόπον.
Str.Because this was about the point at which we made our mistake before; we were more simple-minded than we should have been, and we put the king and the tyrant together, whereas they and their respective modes of ruling are quite unlike.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ἀληθῆ.
Y. Soc.True.
ΞΕ.Νῦν δέ γε πάλιν ἐπανορθούμενοι, καθάπερ εἶπον,
τὴν ἀνθρωπίνην ἐπιμελητικὴν δίχα διαιρώμεθα, τῷ βιαίῳ τε
καὶ ἑκουσίῳ;
Str.But now shall we, as I said, correct ourselves and divide the care of humanity into two parts, by the criterion of the compulsory and the voluntary?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πάνυ μὲν οὖν.
Y. Soc.By all means.
ΞΕ.Καὶ τὴν μέν γέ που τῶν βιαίων τυραννικήν, τὴν
δὲ ἑκούσιον καὶ ἑκουσίων διπόδων ἀγελαιοκομικὴν ζῴων
προσειπόντες πολιτικήν, τὸν ἔχοντα αὖ τέχνην ταύτην καὶ
ἐπιμέλειαν ὄντως ὄντα βασιλέα καὶ πολιτικὸν ἀποφαινώμεθα;
Str.And if we call the art of those who use compulsion tyrannical or something of the sort and the voluntary care of voluntary bipeds political, may we not declare that he who possesses this latter art of caretaking is really the true king and statesman?
277a ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Καὶ κινδυνεύει γε, ὦ ξένε, τελέως ἂν ἡμῖν οὕτως
ἔχειν ἡ περὶ τὸν πολιτικὸν ἀπόδειξις.
Y. Soc.Well, Stranger, it looks as though our account of the statesman were complete now.
ΞΕ.Καλῶς ἄν, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἡμῖν ἔχοι. δεῖ δὲ μὴ σοὶ
μόνῳ ταῦτα, ἀλλὰ κἀμοὶ μετὰ σοῦ κοινῇ συνδοκεῖν. νῦν δὲ
κατά γε τὴν ἐμὴν οὔπω φαίνεται τέλεον ὁ βασιλεὺς ἡμῖν
σχῆμα ἔχειν, ἀλλὰ καθάπερ ἀνδριαντοποιοὶ παρὰ καιρὸν
ἐνίοτε σπεύδοντες πλείω καὶ μείζω τοῦ δέοντος ἕκαστα τῶν
277b ἔργων ἐπεμβαλλόμενοι βραδύνουσι, καὶ νῦν ἡμεῖς, ἵνα δὴ
πρὸς τῷ ταχὺ καὶ μεγαλοπρεπῶς δηλώσαιμεν τὸ τῆς ἔμπροσθεν
ἁμάρτημα διεξόδου, τῷ βασιλεῖ νομίσαντες πρέπειν
μεγάλα παραδείγματα ποιεῖσθαι, θαυμαστὸν ὄγκον ἀράμενοι
τοῦ μύθου, μείζονι τοῦ δέοντος ἠναγκάσθημεν αὐτοῦ μέρει
προσχρήσασθαι· διὸ μακροτέραν τὴν ἀπόδειξιν πεποιήκαμεν
καὶ πάντως τῷ μύθῳ τέλος οὐκ ἐπέθεμεν, ἀλλ' ἀτεχνῶς ὁ
277c λόγος ἡμῖν ὥσπερ ζῷον τὴν ἔξωθεν μὲν περιγραφὴν ἔοικεν
ἱκανῶς ἔχειν, τὴν δὲ οἷον τοῖς φαρμάκοις καὶ τῇ συγκράσει
τῶν χρωμάτων ἐνάργειαν οὐκ ἀπειληφέναι πω. γραφῆς δὲ
καὶ συμπάσης χειρουργίας λέξει καὶ λόγῳ δηλοῦν πᾶν ζῷον
μᾶλλον πρέπει τοῖς δυναμένοις ἕπεσθαι· τοῖς δ' ἄλλοις διὰ
χειρουργιῶν.
Str.That would be a fine thing for us, Socrates. But not you alone must think so; I must think so, too, in agreement with you. As a matter of fact, however, in my opinion our figure of the king is not yet perfect, but like statue-makers who sometimes in their misapplied enthusiasm make too numerous and too large additions and thus delay the completion of their several works, we too, at this time, wishing to make quick progress, and also to make clear in a grand style the error of our previous course, and, moreover, fancying that the use of great illustrations was proper in the case of a king, have taken up a marvellous mass of myth and have consequently been obliged to use a greater part of it than we should. So we have made our discourse too long and after all have never made an end of the tale, but our talk, just like a picture of a living creature, seems to have a good enough outline, but not yet to have received the clearness that comes from pigments and the blending of colors. And yet it is more fitting to portray any living being by speech and argument than by painting or any handicraft whatsoever to persons who are able to follow argument; but to others it is better to do it by means of works of craftsmanship.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τοῦτο μὲν ὀρθῶς· ὅπῃ δὲ ἡμῖν οὔπω φῂς ἱκανῶς
εἰρῆσθαι δήλωσον.
Y. Soc.That is true; but explain wherein you think our exposition is still deficient.
277d ΞΕ.Χαλεπόν, ὦ δαιμόνιε, μὴ παραδείγμασι χρώμενον
ἱκανῶς ἐνδείκνυσθαί τι τῶν μειζόνων. κινδυνεύει γὰρ ἡμῶν
ἕκαστος οἷον ὄναρ εἰδὼς ἅπαντα πάντ' αὖ πάλιν ὥσπερ ὕπαρ
ἀγνοεῖν.
Str.It is difficult, my dear fellow, to set forth any of the greater ideas, except by the use of examples; for it would seem that each of us knows everything that he knows as if in a dream and then again, when he is as it were awake, knows nothing of it all.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς τοῦτ' εἶπες;
Y. Soc.What do you mean by that?
ΞΕ.Καὶ μάλ' ἀτόπως ἔοικά γε ἐν τῷ παρόντι κινήσας
τὸ περὶ τῆς ἐπιστήμης πάθος ἐν ἡμῖν.
Str.I seem at present in absurd fashion to have touched upon our experience in regard to knowledge.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τί δή;
Y. Soc.In what respect?
ΞΕ.Παραδείγματος, ὦ μακάριε, αὖ μοι καὶ τὸ παράδειγμα
αὐτὸ δεδέηκεν.
Str.Why, my friend, the very example I employ requires another example.
277e ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τί οὖν; λέγε μηδὲν ἐμοῦ γε ἕνεκα ἀποκνῶν.
Y. Soc.Indeed? What is it? Don’t hesitate to tell on my account.
ΞΕ.Λεκτέον ἐπειδὴ καὶ σύ γε ἕτοιμος ἀκολουθεῖν.
τοὺς γάρ που παῖδας ἴσμεν, ὅταν ἄρτι γραμμάτων ἔμπειροι
γίγνωνται—
Str.I will tell, since you on your part are prepared to listen. We know that children, when they are just getting some knowledge of letters—
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τὸ ποῖον;
Y. Soc.Well?
ΞΕ.Ὅτι τῶν στοιχείων ἕκαστον ἐν ταῖς βραχυτάταις
καὶ ῥᾴσταις τῶν συλλαβῶν ἱκανῶς διαισθάνονται, καὶ τἀληθῆ
φράζειν περὶ ἐκεῖνα δυνατοὶ γίγνονται.
Str.Recognize the several letters well enough in the short and easy syllables, and can make correct statements about them.
278a ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς γὰρ οὔ;
Y. Soc.Yes, of course.
ΞΕ.Ταὐτὰ δέ γε ταῦτα ἐν ἄλλαις ἀμφιγνοοῦντες πάλιν
δόξῃ τε ψεύδονται καὶ λόγῳ.
Str.And then again in other syllables they are in doubt about those same letters, and err in opinion and speech about them.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πάνυ μὲν οὖν.
Y. Soc.Yes, certainly.
ΞΕ.Ἆρ' οὖν οὐχ ὧδε ῥᾷστον καὶ κάλλιστον ἐπάγειν
αὐτοὺς ἐπὶ τὰ μήπω γιγνωσκόμενα;
Str.Would not the easiest and best way to lead them to the letters which they do not yet know be this?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς;
Y. Soc.What?
ΞΕ.Ἀνάγειν πρῶτον ἐπ' ἐκεῖνα ἐν οἷς ταὐτὰ ταῦτα
ὀρθῶς ἐδόξαζον, ἀναγαγόντας δὲ τιθέναι παρὰ τὰ μήπω
278b γιγνωσκόμενα, καὶ παραβάλλοντας ἐνδεικνύναι τὴν αὐτὴν
ὁμοιότητα καὶ φύσιν ἐν ἀμφοτέραις οὖσαν ταῖς συμπλοκαῖς,
μέχριπερ ἂν πᾶσι τοῖς ἀγνοουμένοις τὰ δοξαζόμενα ἀληθῶς
παρατιθέμενα δειχθῇ, δειχθέντα δέ, παραδείγματα οὕτω γιγνόμενα,
ποιήσῃ τῶν στοιχείων ἕκαστον πάντων ἐν πάσαις
ταῖς συλλαβαῖς τὸ μὲν ἕτερον ὡς τῶν ἄλλων ἕτερον ὄν, τὸ
278c δὲ ταὐτὸν ὡς ταὐτὸν ἀεὶ κατὰ ταὐτὰ ἑαυτῷ προσαγορεύεσθαι.
Str.To lead them first to those cases in which they had correct opinions about these same letters and then to lead them and set them beside the groups which they did not yet recognize and by comparing them to show that their nature is the same in both combinations alike, and to continue until the letters about which their opinions are correct have been shown in juxtaposition with all those of which they are ignorant. Being shown in this way they become examples and bring it about that every letter is in all syllables always called by the same name, either by differentiation from the other letters, in case it is different, or because it is the same.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Παντάπασι μὲν οὖν.
Y. Soc.Certainly.
ΞΕ.Οὐκοῦν τοῦτο μὲν ἱκανῶς συνειλήφαμεν, ὅτι παραδείγματός
γ' ἐστὶ τότε γένεσις, ὁπόταν ὂν ταὐτὸν ἐν ἑτέρῳ
διεσπασμένῳ δοξαζόμενον ὀρθῶς καὶ συναχθὲν περὶ ἑκάτερον
ὡς συνάμφω μίαν ἀληθῆ δόξαν ἀποτελῇ;
Str.Is this, then, a satisfactory definition, that an example is formed when that which is the same in some second unconnected thing is rightly conceived and compared with the first, so that the two together form one true idea?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Φαίνεται.
Y. Soc.Evidently.
ΞΕ.Θαυμάζοιμεν ἂν οὖν εἰ ταὐτὸν τοῦτο ἡμῶν ἡ ψυχὴ
278d φύσει περὶ τὰ τῶν πάντων στοιχεῖα πεπονθυῖα τοτὲ μὲν ὑπ'
ἀληθείας περὶ ἓν ἕκαστον ἔν τισι συνίσταται, τοτὲ δὲ περὶ
ἅπαντα ἐν ἑτέροις αὖ φέρεται, καὶ τὰ μὲν αὐτῶν ἁμῇ γέ πῃ
τῶν συγκράσεων ὀρθῶς δοξάζει, μετατιθέμενα δ' εἰς τὰς τῶν
πραγμάτων μακρὰς καὶ μὴ ῥᾳδίους συλλαβὰς ταὐτὰ ταῦτα
πάλιν ἀγνοεῖ;
Str.Can we wonder, then, that our soul, whose nature involves it in the same uncertainty about the letters or elements of all things, is sometimes in some cases firmly grounded in the truth about every detail, and again in other cases is all at sea about everything, and somehow or other has correct opinions about some combinations, and then again is ignorant of the same things when they are transferred to the long and difficult syllables of life?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Καὶ θαυμαστόν γε οὐδέν.
Y. Soc.Surely we need not wonder at that.
ΞΕ.Πῶς γάρ, ὦ φίλε, δύναιτο ἄν τις ἀρχόμενος ἀπὸ
278e δόξης ψευδοῦς ἐπί τι τῆς ἀληθείας καὶ μικρὸν μέρος ἀφικόμενος
κτήσασθαι φρόνησιν;
Str.No; for could anyone, my friend, who begins with false opinion, ever attain to even a small part of truth and acquire wisdom?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Σχεδὸν οὐδαμῶς.
Y. Soc.No; it is hardly possible.
ΞΕ.Οὐκοῦν ταῦτα εἰ ταύτῃ πέφυκεν, οὐδὲν δὴ πλημμελοῖμεν
ἂν ἐγώ τε καὶ σὺ πρῶτον μὲν ἐπιχειρήσαντες ὅλου
παραδείγματος ἰδεῖν τὴν φύσιν ἐν σμικρῷ κατὰ μέρος ἄλλῳ
παραδείγματι, μετὰ δὲ ταῦτα μέλλοντες, ἐπὶ τὸ τοῦ βασιλέως
μέγιστον ὂν ταὐτὸν εἶδος ἀπ' ἐλαττόνων φέροντές ποθεν, διὰ
παραδείγματος ἐπιχειρεῖν αὖ τὴν τῶν κατὰ πόλιν θεραπείαν
τέχνῃ γνωρίζειν, ἵνα ὕπαρ ἀντ' ὀνείρατος ἡμῖν γίγνηται;
Str.Then if this is the case, would it be a bad thing if you and I first tried to see in another small and partial example the nature of example in general, with the intention of transferring afterwards the same figurative method from lesser things to the most exalted eminence of the king, and trying by means of an example to become acquainted in a scientific way with the management of states, in order that this may be waking knowledge for us, not dream knowledge?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πάνυ μὲν οὖν ὀρθῶς.
Y. Soc.That is a very good idea.
279a ΞΕ.Πάλιν δὴ τὸν ἔμπροσθε λόγον ἀναληπτέον, ὡς
ἐπειδὴ τῷ βασιλικῷ γένει τῆς περὶ τὰς πόλεις ἐπιμελείας
ἀμφισβητοῦσι μυρίοι, δεῖ δὴ πάντας ἀποχωρίζειν τούτους
καὶ μόνον ἐκεῖνον λείπειν καὶ πρὸς τοῦτο δὴ παραδείγματος
ἔφαμεν δεῖν τινος ἡμῖν.
Str.Then we must take up our former argument again, and since there are countless others who contend that they, rather than the royal class, have the care of states, we must accordingly remove all these and isolate the king; and, as we said, to accomplish this we need an example.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Καὶ μάλα.
Y. Soc.Certainly.
ΞΕ.Τί δῆτα παράδειγμά τις ἄν, ἔχον τὴν αὐτὴν πολιτικῇ
πραγματείαν, σμικρότατον παραθέμενος ἱκανῶς ἂν εὕροι τὸ
279b ζητούμενον; βούλει πρὸς Διός, ὦ Σώκρατες, εἰ μή τι πρόχειρον
ἕτερον ἔχομεν, ἀλλ' οὖν τήν γε ὑφαντικὴν προελώμεθα;
καὶ ταύτην, εἰ δοκεῖ, μὴ πᾶσαν; ἀποχρήσει γὰρ ἴσως ἡ περὶ
τὰ ἐκ τῶν ἐρίων ὑφάσματα· τάχα γὰρ ἂν ἡμῖν καὶ τοῦτο τὸ
μέρος αὐτῆς μαρτυρήσειε προαιρεθὲν ὃ βουλόμεθα.
Str.What example could we apply which is very small, but has the same kind of activity as statesmanship and would enable us satisfactorily to discover that which we seek? What do you say, Socrates, if we have nothing else at hand, to taking at random the art of weaving, and, if you please, not the whole of that? For I fancy the art of weaving wool will be enough; if we choose that part only it will probably furnish us with the illustration we desire.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τί γὰρ οὔ;
Y. Soc.Agreed.
ΞΕ.Τί δῆτα οὐ, καθάπερ ἐν τοῖς ἔμπροσθε τέμνοντες
μέρη μερῶν ἕκαστον διῃρούμεθα, καὶ νῦν περὶ ὑφαντικὴν
279c ταὐτὸν τοῦτ' ἐδράσαμεν, καὶ κατὰ δύναμιν ὅτι μάλιστα διὰ
βραχέων ταχὺ πάντ' ἐπελθόντες πάλιν ἤλθομεν ἐπὶ τὸ νῦν
χρήσιμον;
Str.Then just as we divided each subject before by cutting off parts from parts, why not now apply the same process to the art of weaving and, by going through all the steps as briefly as we possibly can, arrive quickly at that which serves our present purpose?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς λέγεις;
Y. Soc.What do you mean?
ΞΕ.Αὐτὴν τὴν διέξοδον ἀπόκρισίν σοι ποιήσομαι.
Str.I will answer you by actually going through the process.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Κάλλιστ' εἶπες.
Y. Soc.Excellent
ΞΕ.Ἔστι τοίνυν πάντα ἡμῖν ὁπόσα δημιουργοῦμεν καὶ
κτώμεθα, τὰ μὲν ἕνεκα τοῦ ποιεῖν τι, τὰ δὲ τοῦ μὴ πάσχειν
ἀμυντήρια· καὶ τῶν ἀμυντηρίων τὰ μὲν ἀλεξιφάρμακα καὶ
279d θεῖα καὶ ἀνθρώπινα, τὰ δὲ προβλήματα· τῶν δὲ προβλημάτων
τὰ μὲν πρὸς τὸν πόλεμον ὁπλίσματα, τὰ δὲ φράγματα· καὶ
τῶν φραγμάτων τὰ μὲν παραπετάσματα, τὰ δὲ πρὸς χειμῶνας
καὶ καύματα ἀλεξητήρια· τῶν δὲ ἀλεξητηρίων τὰ μὲν στεγάσματα,
τὰ δὲ σκεπάσματα· καὶ τῶν σκεπασμάτων ὑποπετάσματα
μὲν ἄλλα, περικαλύμματα δὲ ἕτερα· περικαλυμμάτων
δὲ τὰ μὲν ὁλόσχιστα, σύνθετα δὲ ἕτερα· τῶν δὲ συνθέτων
279e τὰ μὲν τρητά, τὰ δὲ ἄνευ τρήσεως συνδετά· καὶ τῶν ἀτρήτων
τὰ μὲν νεύρινα φυτῶν ἐκ γῆς, τὰ δὲ τρίχινα· τῶν δὲ
τριχίνων τὰ μὲν ὕδασι καὶ γῇ κολλητά, τὰ δὲ αὐτὰ αὑτοῖς
συνδετά. τούτοισι δὴ τοῖς ἐκ τῶν ἑαυτοῖς συνδουμένων
ἐργασθεῖσιν ἀμυντηρίοις καὶ σκεπάσμασι τὸ μὲν ὄνομα ἱμάτια
ἐκαλέσαμεν· τὴν δὲ τῶν ἱματίων μάλιστα ἐπιμελουμένην
280a τέχνην, ὥσπερ τότε τὴν τῆς πόλεως πολιτικὴν εἴπομεν,
οὕτω καὶ νῦν ταύτην προσείπωμεν ἀπ' αὐτοῦ τοῦ πράγματος
ἱματιουργικήν; φῶμεν δὲ καὶ ὑφαντικήν, ὅσον ἐπὶ τῇ τῶν
ἱματίων ἐργασίᾳ μέγιστον ἦν μόριον, μηδὲν διαφέρειν πλὴν
ὀνόματι ταύτης τῆς ἱματιουργικῆς, καθάπερ κἀκεῖ τότε τὴν
βασιλικὴν τῆς πολιτικῆς;
Str.Well, then, all things which we make or acquire are for the sake of doing something or else they are for defence against suffering; and of the defensive class some are spells and antidotes, both divine and human, and some are material defences; and of the material defences some are equipment for war and some are protections; and of protections some are screens and some are defences against heat and cold; and such defences are either shelters or coverings; and coverings are either rugs to spread under us or wrappings to wrap round us; and wrappings are either all of one piece or composed of several pieces; and of the composite garments some are stitched and others put together without stitching; and of the unstitched some are made of the fibres of plants and some are of hair; and of those made with hair some are stuck together with liquids and cement and others are fastened without any such extraneous matter. Now to these protective coverings made of materials fastened without extraneous matter we give the name of clothes; and just as we called the art statecraft which was concerned with the state, so we shall call the art concerned with clothes, from the nature of its activity, clothes-making, shall we not? And may we say further that weaving, in so far as the greatest part of it is, as we saw, concerned with the making of clothes, differs in name only from this art of clothes-making, just as in the other case the royal art differed from statecraft?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ὀρθότατά γε.
Y. Soc.That is perfectly correct.
ΞΕ.Τὸ μετὰ τοῦτο δὴ συλλογισώμεθα ὅτι τὴν ἱματίων
280b ὑφαντικὴν οὕτω ῥηθεῖσάν τις τάχ' ἂν ἱκανῶς εἰρῆσθαι δόξειεν,
μὴ δυνάμενος συννοεῖν ὅτι τῶν μὲν ἐγγὺς συνεργῶν οὔπω
διώρισται, πολλῶν δὲ ἑτέρων συγγενῶν ἀπεμερίσθη.
Str.Let us next reflect that a person might think that this description of the art of weaving was satisfactory, because he cannot understand that it has not yet been distinguished from the closely co-operative arts, though it has been separated from many other kindred arts.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ποίων, εἰπέ, συγγενῶν;
Y. Soc.What kindred arts?
ΞΕ.Οὐχ ἕσπου τοῖς λεχθεῖσιν, ὡς φαίνῃ· πάλιν οὖν
ἔοικεν ἐπανιτέον ἀρχόμενον ἀπὸ τελευτῆς. εἰ γὰρ συννοεῖς
τὴν οἰκειότητα, τὴν μὲν διετέμομεν ἀπ' αὐτῆς νυνδή,
τὴν τῶν στρωμάτων σύνθεσιν περιβολῇ χωρίζοντες καὶ
ὑποβολῇ.
Str.You do not seem to have followed what I have been saying; so I think I had better go back again and begin at the end. For if you understand what I mean by kinship, we distinguished from clothing something akin to it a moment ago when we separated rugs from it by the distinction between spreading under and wrapping round.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Μανθάνω.
Y. Soc.I understand.
280c ΞΕ.Καὶ μὴν τὴν ἐκ τῶν λίνων καὶ σπάρτων καὶ πάντων
ὁπόσα φυτῶν ἄρτι νεῦρα κατὰ λόγον εἴπομεν, δημιουργίαν
πᾶσαν ἀφείλομεν· τήν τε αὖ πιλητικὴν ἀφωρισάμεθα καὶ
τὴν τρήσει καὶ ῥαφῇ χρωμένην σύνθεσιν, ἧς ἡ πλείστη
σκυτοτομική.
Str.And we removed the entire manufacture of cloth made from flax and broom-cords and all that we just now called vegetable fibres; and then, too, we separated off the process of felting and the kind of joining that employs piercing and sewing, most important of which is the shoemaker’s art.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πάνυ μὲν οὖν.
Y. Soc.Yes, to be sure.
ΞΕ.Καὶ τοίνυν τὴν τῶν ὁλοσχίστων σκεπασμάτων θεραπείαν
δερματουργικὴν καὶ τὰς τῶν στεγασμάτων, ὅσαι τε ἐν
οἰκοδομικῇ καὶ ὅλῃ τεκτονικῇ καὶ ἐν ἄλλαις τέχναις ῥευμάτων
280d στεκτικαὶ γίγνονται, συμπάσας ἀφείλομεν, ὅσαι τε περὶ τὰς
κλοπὰς καὶ τὰς βίᾳ πράξεις διακωλυτικὰ ἔργα παρέχονται
τέχναι φραγμάτων, περί τε γένεσιν ἐπιθηματουργίας οὖσαι
καὶ τὰς τῶν θυρωμάτων πήξεις, γομφωτικῆς ἀπονεμηθεῖσαι
μόρια τέχνης· τήν τε ὁπλοποιικὴν ἀπετεμόμεθα, μεγάλης καὶ
παντοίας τῆς προβληματουργικῆς τμῆμα οὖσαν δυνάμεως·
280e καὶ δὴ καὶ τὴν μαγευτικὴν τὴν περὶ τὰ ἀλεξιφάρμακα κατ'
ἀρχὰς εὐθὺς διωρισάμεθα σύμπασαν, καὶ λελοίπαμεν, ὡς
δόξαιμεν ἄν, αὐτὴν τὴν ζητηθεῖσαν ἀμυντικὴν χειμώνων, ἐρεοῦ
προβλήματος ἐργαστικήν, ὄνομα δὲ ὑφαντικὴν λεχθεῖσαν.
Str.And we separated off the art of making coverings of leather in single pieces and all the arts of making shelters, which we find in house-building and carpentering in general and in other methods of protection against water, and all the arts which furnish protection against theft and acts of violence, the arts, that is to say, of making lids and constructing doors, which are regarded as parts of the joiner’s art; and we cut off the armorer’s art, which is a section of the great and various function of making defences; and at the very beginning we cut off the whole art of magic which is concerned with antidotes and spells, and we have left, as it would seem, just the art we were seeking, which furnishes protection from the weather, manufactures a defence of wool, and is called the art of weaving.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ἔοικε γὰρ οὖν.
Y. Soc.That seems to be the case.
ΞΕ.Ἀλλ' οὐκ ἔστι πω τέλεον, ὦ παῖ, τοῦτο λελεγμένον.
ὁ γὰρ ἐν ἀρχῇ τῆς τῶν ἱματίων ἐργασίας ἁπτόμενος τοὐναντίον
281a ὑφῇ δρᾶν φαίνεται.
Str.But, my boy, this is not yet completely stated; for the man who is engaged in the first part of the making of clothes appears to do something the opposite of weaving.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς;
Y. Soc.How so?
ΞΕ.Τὸ μὲν τῆς ὑφῆς συμπλοκή τίς ἐστί που.
Str.The process of weaving is, I take it, a kind of joining together.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ναί.
Y. Soc.Yes.
ΞΕ.Τὸ δέ γε τῶν συνεστώτων καὶ συμπεπιλημένων
διαλυτική.
Str.But the first part I refer to is a separation of what is combined and matted together.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τὸ ποῖον δή;
Y. Soc.What do you mean?
ΞΕ.Τὸ τῆς τοῦ ξαίνοντος τέχνης ἔργον. ἢ τὴν ξαντικὴν
τολμήσομεν ὑφαντικὴν καὶ τὸν ξάντην ὡς ὄντα ὑφάντην
καλεῖν;
Str.The work of the carder’s art. Or shall we have the face to say that carding is weaving and the carder is a weaver?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Οὐδαμῶς.
Y. Soc.No, certainly not.
ΞΕ.Καὶ μὴν τήν γε αὖ στήμονος ἐργαστικὴν καὶ κρόκης
εἴ τις ὑφαντικὴν προσαγορεύει, παράδοξόν τε καὶ ψεῦδος
281b ὄνομα λέγει.
Str.And surely if we say the art of making the warp or the woof is the art of weaving, we are employing an irrational and false designation.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς γὰρ οὔ;
Y. Soc.Of course.
ΞΕ.Τί δέ; κναφευτικὴν σύμπασαν καὶ τὴν ἀκεστικὴν
πότερα μηδεμίαν ἐπιμέλειαν μηδέ τινα θεραπείαν ἐσθῆτος
θῶμεν, ἢ καὶ ταύτας πάσας ὡς ὑφαντικὰς λέξομεν;
Str.Well then, shall we say that the whole arts of fulling and mending are no part of the care and treatment of clothes, or shall we declare that these also are entirely included in the art of weaving?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Οὐδαμῶς.
Y. Soc.By no means.
ΞΕ.Ἀλλὰ μὴν τῆς γε θεραπείας ἀμφισβητήσουσιν
αὗται σύμπασαι καὶ τῆς γενέσεως τῆς τῶν ἱματίων τῇ τῆς
ὑφαντικῆς δυνάμει, μέγιστον μὲν μέρος ἐκείνῃ διδοῦσαι,
μεγάλα δὲ καὶ σφίσιν αὐταῖς ἀπονέμουσαι.
Str.But surely all these will contest the claim of the art of weaving in the matter of the treatment and the production of clothes; they will grant that the part of weaving is the most important, but will claim that their own parts are of some importance, too.
281c ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πάνυ γε.
Y. Soc.Yes, certainly.
ΞΕ.Πρὸς τοίνυν ταύταις ἔτι τὰς τῶν ἐργαλείων δημιουργοὺς
τέχνας, δι' ὧν ἀποτελεῖται τὰ τῆς ὑφῆς ἔργα,
δοκεῖν χρὴ τό γε συναιτίας εἶναι προσποιήσασθαι παντὸς
ὑφάσματος.
Str.Then we must believe that besides these the arts which produce the tools by means of which the works of weaving are accomplished will claim to be collaborators in every work of weaving.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ὀρθότατα.
Y. Soc.Quite right.
ΞΕ.Πότερον οὖν ἡμῖν ὁ περὶ τῆς ὑφαντικῆς λόγος, οὗ
προειλόμεθα μέρους, ἱκανῶς ἔσται διωρισμένος, ἐὰν ἄρ' αὐτὴν
τῶν ἐπιμελειῶν ὁπόσαι περὶ τὴν ἐρεᾶν ἐσθῆτα, εἰς τὴν
281d καλλίστην καὶ μεγίστην πασῶν τιθῶμεν· ἢ λέγοιμεν μὲν ἄν
τι ἀληθές, οὐ μὴν σαφές γε οὐδὲ τέλεον, πρὶν ἂν καὶ ταύτας
αὐτῆς πάσας περιέλωμεν;
Str.Will our definition of the art of weaving (I mean the part of it we selected) be satisfactory if we say that of all the activities connected with woollen clothing it is the noblest and the greatest? Or would that, although it contains some truth, yet lack clearness and completeness until we separate from weaving all these other arts?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ὀρθῶς.
Y. Soc.You are right.
ΞΕ.Οὐκοῦν μετὰ ταῦτα ποιητέον ὃ λέγομεν, ἵν' ἐφεξῆς
ἡμῖν ὁ λόγος ἴῃ;
Str.Then shall our next move be to do this, that our discussion may proceed in due order?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς δ' οὔ;
Y. Soc.Certainly.
ΞΕ.Πρῶτον μὲν τοίνυν δύο τέχνας οὔσας περὶ πάντα
τὰ δρώμενα θεασώμεθα.
Str.First, then, let us observe that there are two arts involved in all production.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τίνας;
Y. Soc.What are they?
ΞΕ.Τὴν μὲν γενέσεως οὖσαν συναίτιον, τὴν δ' αὐτὴν αἰτίαν.
Str.The one is a contingent cause, the other is the actual cause.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς;
Y. Soc.What do you mean?
281e ΞΕ.Ὅσαι μὲν τὸ πρᾶγμα αὐτὸ μὴ δημιουργοῦσι, ταῖς
δὲ δημιουργούσαις ὄργανα παρασκευάζουσιν, ὧν μὴ παραγενομένων
οὐκ ἄν ποτε ἐργασθείη τὸ προστεταγμένον ἑκάστῃ
τῶν τεχνῶν, ταύτας μὲν συναιτίους, τὰς δὲ αὐτὸ τὸ πρᾶγμα
ἀπεργαζομένας αἰτίας.
Str.Those arts which do not produce the actual thing in question, but which supply to the arts which do produce it the tools without which no art could ever perform its prescribed work, may be called contingent causes, and those which produce the actual thing are causes.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ἔχει γοῦν λόγον.
Y. Soc.At any rate, that is reasonable.
ΞΕ.Μετὰ τοῦτο δὴ τὰς μὲν περί τε ἀτράκτους καὶ
κερκίδας καὶ ὁπόσα ἄλλα ὄργανα τῆς περὶ τὰ ἀμφιέσματα
γενέσεως κοινωνεῖ, πάσας συναιτίους εἴπωμεν, τὰς δὲ αὐτὰ
θεραπευούσας καὶ δημιουργούσας αἰτίας;
Str.Next, then, shall we designate all the arts which produce spindles, shuttles, and the various other tools that partake in the production of clothing as contingent causes, and those which treat and manufacture the clothing itself as causes?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ὀρθότατα.
Y. Soc.Quite right.
282a ΞΕ.Τῶν αἰτιῶν δὴ πλυντικὴν μὲν καὶ ἀκεστικὴν καὶ
πᾶσαν τὴν περὶ ταῦτα θεραπευτικήν, πολλῆς οὔσης τῆς
κοσμητικῆς, τοὐνταῦθα αὐτῆς μόριον εἰκὸς μάλιστα περιλαμβάνειν
ὀνομάζοντας πᾶν τῇ τέχνῃ τῇ κναφευτικῇ.
Str.And among the causal arts we may properly include washing and mending and all the care of clothing in such ways; and, since the art of adornment is a wide one, we may classify them as a part of it under the name of fulling.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Καλῶς.
Y. Soc.Good.
ΞΕ.Καὶ μὴν ξαντική γε καὶ νηστικὴ καὶ πάντα αὖ
τὰ περὶ τὴν ποίησιν αὐτὴν τῆς ἐσθῆτος ἧς λέγομεν
μέρη, μία τίς ἐστι τέχνη τῶν ὑπὸ πάντων λεγομένων,
ἡ ταλασιουργική.
Str.And, again, carding and spinning and all the processes concerned with the actual fabrication of the clothing under consideration, form collectively one art familiar to every one—the art of wool-working.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς γὰρ οὔ;
Y. Soc.Of course.
282b ΞΕ.Τῆς δὴ ταλασιουργικῆς δύο τμήματά ἐστον, καὶ
τούτοιν ἑκάτερον ἅμα δυοῖν πεφύκατον τέχναιν μέρη.
Str.And wool-working comprises two divisions, and each of these is a part of two arts at once.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς;
Y. Soc.How is that?
ΞΕ.Τὸ μὲν ξαντικὸν καὶ τὸ τῆς κερκιστικῆς ἥμισυ καὶ
ὅσα τὰ συγκείμενα ἀπ' ἀλλήλων ἀφίστησι, πᾶν τοῦτο ὡς ἓν
φράζειν τῆς τε ταλασιουργίας αὐτῆς ἐστί που, καὶ μεγάλα τινὲ
κατὰ πάντα ἡμῖν ἤστην τέχνα, ἡ συγκριτική τε καὶ διακριτική.
Str.Carding, and one half of the use of the weaver’s rod, and the other crafts which separate things that are joined—all this collectively is a part of the art of wool-working; and in all things we found two great arts, that of composition and that of division.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ναί.
Y. Soc.Yes.
ΞΕ.Τῆς τοίνυν διακριτικῆς ἥ τε ξαντικὴ καὶ τὰ νυνδὴ
282c ῥηθέντα ἅπαντά ἐστιν· ἡ γὰρ ἐν ἐρίοις τε καὶ στήμοσι διακριτική,
κερκίδι μὲν ἄλλον τρόπον γιγνομένη, χερσὶ δὲ ἕτερον,
ἔσχεν ὅσα ἀρτίως ὀνόματα ἐρρήθη.
Str.Now carding and all the other processes just mentioned are parts of the art of division; for the art of division in wool and threads, exercised in one way with the rod and in another with the hands, has all the names just mentioned.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πάνυ μὲν οὖν.
Y. Soc.Yes, certainly.
ΞΕ.Αὖθις δὴ πάλιν συγκριτικῆς μόριον ἅμα καὶ ταλασιουργίας
ἐν αὐτῇ γιγνόμενον λάβωμεν· ὅσα δὲ τῆς διακριτικῆς
ἦν αὐτόθι, μεθιῶμεν σύμπαντα, δίχα τέμνοντες τὴν
ταλασιουργίαν διακριτικῷ τε καὶ συγκριτικῷ τμήματι.
Str.Then let us again take up something which is at once a part of the arts of composition and of wool-working. Let us put aside all that belongs to division, making two parts of wool-working, by applying the principles of division and of composition.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Διῃρήσθω.
Y. Soc.Let us make that distinction.
ΞΕ.Τὸ συγκριτικὸν τοίνυν αὖ σοι καὶ ταλασιουργικὸν
282d ἅμα μόριον, ὦ Σώκρατες, διαιρετέον, εἴπερ ἱκανῶς μέλλομεν
τὴν προρρηθεῖσαν ὑφαντικὴν αἱρήσειν.
Str.The part which belongs at once to composition and to wool-working, Socrates, you must allow us to divide again, if we are to get a satisfactory concept of the aforesaid art of weaving.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Οὐκοῦν χρή.
Y. Soc.Then we must divide it.
ΞΕ.Χρὴ μὲν οὖν· καὶ λέγωμέν γε αὐτῆς τὸ μὲν εἶναι
στρεπτικόν, τὸ δὲ συμπλεκτικόν.
Str.Yes, we must; and let us call one part of it the art of twisting threads, and the other the art of intertwining them.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ἆρ' οὖν μανθάνω; δοκεῖς γάρ μοι τὸ περὶ τὴν
τοῦ στήμονος ἐργασίαν λέγειν στρεπτικόν.
Y. Soc.I am not sure I understand. By the art of twisting I think you mean the making of the warp.
ΞΕ.Οὐ μόνον γε, ἀλλὰ καὶ κρόκης· ἢ γένεσιν ἄστροφόν
τινα αὐτῆς εὑρήσομεν;
Str.Not that only, but also the making of the woof. We shall not find that the woof is made without twisting, shall we?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Οὐδαμῶς.
Y. Soc.No, of course not.
282e ΞΕ.Διόρισαι δὴ καὶ τούτοιν ἑκάτερον· ἴσως γὰρ ὁ
διορισμὸς ἔγκαιρος ἄν σοι γένοιτο.
Str.Well, just define warp and woof; perhaps the definition would serve you well at this junction.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῇ;
Y. Soc.How shall I do it?
ΞΕ.Τῇδε· τῶν περὶ ξαντικὴν ἔργων μηκυνθέν τε καὶ
σχὸν πλάτος λέγομεν εἶναι κάταγμά τι;
Str.In this way: A piece of carded wool, which is lengthened out and is wide, is said to be a lap of wool, is it not?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ναί.
Y. Soc.Yes.
ΞΕ.Τούτου δὴ τὸ μὲν ἀτράκτῳ τε στραφὲν καὶ στερεὸν
νῆμα γενόμενον στήμονα μὲν φάθι τὸ νῆμα, τὴν δὲ ἀπευθύνουσαν
αὐτὸ τέχνην εἶναι στημονονητικήν.
Str.And if any such lap of wool is twisted with a spindle and made into a hard thread, we call the thread warp, and the art which governs this process is the art of spinning the warp.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ὀρθῶς.
Y. Soc.Right.
ΞΕ.Ὅσα δέ γε αὖ τὴν μὲν συστροφὴν χαύνην λαμβάνει,
τῇ δὲ τοῦ στήμονος ἐμπλέξει πρὸς τὴν τῆς γνάψεως ὁλκὴν
ἐμμέτρως τὴν μαλακότητα ἴσχει, ταῦτ' ἄρα κρόκην μὲν τὰ
νηθέντα, τὴν δὲ ἐπιτεταγμένην αὐτοῖς εἶναι τέχνην τὴν
283a κροκονητικὴν φῶμεν.
Str.And the threads, in turn, which are more loosely twisted and have in respect to the force used in the carding a softness adapted to the interweaving with the warp we will call the woof, and the art devoted to these we will call the art of preparing the woof.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ὀρθότατα.
Y. Soc.Quite right.
ΞΕ.Καὶ μὴν τό γε τῆς ὑφαντικῆς μέρος ὃ προυθέμεθα,
παντί που δῆλον ἤδη. τὸ γὰρ συγκριτικῆς τῆς
ἐν ταλασιουργίᾳ μόριον ὅταν εὐθυπλοκίᾳ κρόκης καὶ στήμονος
ἀπεργάζηται πλέγμα, τὸ μὲν πλεχθὲν σύμπαν ἐσθῆτα
ἐρεᾶν, τὴν δ' ἐπὶ τούτῳ τέχνην οὖσαν προσαγορεύομεν
ὑφαντικήν.
Str.So now the part of the art of weaving which we chose for our discussion is clear to pretty much every understanding; for when that part of the art of composition which is included in the art of weaving forms a web by the right intertwining of woof and warp, we call the entire web a woollen garment, and the art which directs this process we call weaving.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ὀρθότατα.
Y. Soc.Quite right.
283b ΞΕ.Εἶεν· τί δή ποτε οὖν οὐκ εὐθὺς ἀπεκρινάμεθα πλεκτικὴν
εἶναι κρόκης καὶ στήμονος ὑφαντικήν, ἀλλὰ περιήλθομεν
ἐν κύκλῳ πάμπολλα διοριζόμενοι μάτην;
Str.Very good. Then why in the world did we not say at once that weaving is the intertwining of woof and warp? Why did we beat about the bush and make a host of futile distinctions?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Οὔκουν ἔμοιγε, ὦ ξένε, μάτην οὐδὲν τῶν
ῥηθέντων ἔδοξε ῥηθῆναι.
Y. Soc.For my part, I thought nothing that was said was futile, Stranger.
ΞΕ.Καὶ θαυμαστόν γε οὐδέν· ἀλλὰ τάχ' ἄν, ὦ μακάριε,
δόξειε. πρὸς δὴ τὸ νόσημα τὸ τοιοῦτον, ἂν ἄρα πολλάκις
ὕστερον ἐπίῃ—θαυμαστὸν γὰρ οὐδέν—λόγον ἄκουσόν τινα
283c προσήκοντα περὶ πάντων τῶν τοιούτων ῥηθῆναι.
Str.And no wonder; but perhaps you might change your mind. Now to avoid any such malady, in case it should, as is not unlikely, attack you frequently hereafter, I will propose a principle of procedure which is applicable to all cases of this sort.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Λέγε μόνον.
Y. Soc.Do so.
ΞΕ.Πρῶτον τοίνυν ἴδωμεν πᾶσαν τήν τε ὑπερβολὴν καὶ
τὴν ἔλλειψιν, ἵνα κατὰ λόγον ἐπαινῶμεν καὶ ψέγωμεν τὰ
μακρότερα τοῦ δέοντος ἑκάστοτε λεγόμενα καὶ τἀναντία περὶ
τὰς τοιάσδε διατριβάς.
Str.First, then, let us scrutinize the general nature of excess and deficiency, for the sake of obtaining a rational basis for any praise or blame we may bestow upon excessive length or brevity in discussions of this kind.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Οὐκοῦν χρή.
Y. Soc.Yes, that is a good thing to do.
ΞΕ.Περὶ δὴ τούτων αὐτῶν ὁ λόγος ἡμῖν οἶμαι γιγνόμενος
ὀρθῶς ἂν γίγνοιτο.
Str.Then the proper subjects for our consideration would, I fancy, be these.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τίνων;
Y. Soc.What?
ΞΕ.Μήκους τε πέρι καὶ βραχύτητος καὶ πάσης ὑπεροχῆς
283d τε καὶ ἐλλείψεως· ἡ γάρ που μετρητικὴ περὶ πάντ' ἐστὶ
ταῦτα.
Str.Length and shortness and excess and deficiency in general; for all of them may be regarded as the subjects of the art of measurement.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ναί.
Y. Soc.Yes.
ΞΕ.Διέλωμεν τοίνυν αὐτὴν δύο μέρη· δεῖ γὰρ δὴ πρὸς
ὃ νῦν σπεύδομεν.
Str.Let us, then, divide that art into two parts; that is essential for our present purpose.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Λέγοις ἂν τὴν διαίρεσιν ὅπῃ.
Y. Soc.Please tell how to make the division.
ΞΕ.Τῇδε· τὸ μὲν κατὰ τὴν πρὸς ἄλληλα μεγέθους καὶ
σμικρότητος κοινωνίαν, τὸ δὲ [τὸ] κατὰ τὴν τῆς γενέσεως
ἀναγκαίαν οὐσίαν.
Str.In this way: one part is concerned with relative greatness or smallness, the other with the something without which production would not be possible.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς λέγεις;
Y. Soc.What do you mean?
ΞΕ.Ἆρ' οὐ κατὰ φύσιν δοκεῖ σοι τὸ μεῖζον μηδενὸς
ἑτέρου δεῖν μεῖζον λέγειν ἢ τοῦ ἐλάττονος, καὶ τοὔλαττον αὖ
283e τοῦ μείζονος ἔλαττον, ἄλλου δὲ μηδενός;
Str.Do you not think that, by the nature of the case, we must say that the greater is greater than the less and than nothing else, and that the less is less than the greater and than nothing else?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ἔμοιγε.
Y. Soc.Yes.
ΞΕ.Τί δέ; τὸ τὴν τοῦ μετρίου φύσιν ὑπερβάλλον καὶ
ὑπερβαλλόμενον ὑπ' αὐτῆς ἐν λόγοις εἴτε καὶ ἐν ἔργοις ἆρ'
οὐκ αὖ λέξομεν ὡς ὄντως γιγνόμενον, ἐν ᾧ καὶ διαφέρουσι
μάλιστα ἡμῶν οἵ τε κακοὶ καὶ [οἱ] ἀγαθοί;
Str.But must we not also assert the real existence of excess beyond the standard of the mean, and of inferiority to the mean, whether in words or deeds, and is not the chief difference between good men and bad found in such excess or deficiency?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Φαίνεται.
Y. Soc.That is clear.
ΞΕ.Διττὰς ἄρα ταύτας οὐσίας καὶ κρίσεις τοῦ μεγάλου
καὶ τοῦ σμικροῦ θετέον, ἀλλ' οὐχ ὡς ἔφαμεν ἄρτι πρὸς
ἄλληλα μόνον δεῖν, ἀλλ' ὥσπερ νῦν εἴρηται μᾶλλον τὴν μὲν
πρὸς ἄλληλα λεκτέον, τὴν δ' αὖ πρὸς τὸ μέτριον· οὗ δὲ
ἕνεκα, μαθεῖν ἆρ' ἂν βουλοίμεθα;
Str.Then we must assume that there are these two kinds of great and small, and these two ways of distinguishing between them; we must not, as we did a little while ago, say that they are relative to one another only, but rather, as we have just said, that one kind is relative in that way, and the other is relative to the standard of the mean. Should we care to learn the reason for this?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τί μήν;
Y. Soc.Of course.
284a ΞΕ.Εἰ πρὸς μηδὲν ἕτερον τὴν τοῦ μείζονος ἐάσει τις
φύσιν ἢ πρὸς τοὔλαττον, οὐκ ἔσται ποτὲ πρὸς τὸ μέτριον·
ἦ γάρ;
Str.If we assert that the greater has no relation to anything except the less, it will never have any relation to the standard of the mean, will it?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Οὕτως.
Y. Soc.No.
ΞΕ.Οὐκοῦν τὰς τέχνας τε αὐτὰς καὶ τἆργα αὐτῶν σύμπαντα
διολοῦμεν τούτῳ τῷ λόγῳ, καὶ δὴ καὶ τὴν ζητουμένην
νῦν πολιτικὴν καὶ τὴν ῥηθεῖσαν ὑφαντικὴν ἀφανιοῦμεν;
ἅπασαι γὰρ αἱ τοιαῦταί που τὸ τοῦ μετρίου πλέον καὶ
ἔλαττον οὐχ ὡς οὐκ ὂν ἀλλ' ὡς ὂν χαλεπὸν περὶ τὰς πράξεις
284b παραφυλάττουσι, καὶ τούτῳ δὴ τῷ τρόπῳ τὸ μέτρον σῴζουσαι
πάντα ἀγαθὰ καὶ καλὰ ἀπεργάζονται.
Str.Will not this doctrine destroy the arts and their works one and all, and do away also with statesmanship, which we are now trying to define, and with weaving, which we did define? For all these are doubtless careful about excess and deficiency in relation to the standard of the mean; they regard them not as non-existent, but as real difficulties in actual practice, and it is in this way, when they preserve the standard of the mean, that all their works are good and beautiful.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τί μήν;
Y. Soc.Certainly.
ΞΕ.Οὐκοῦν ἂν τὴν πολιτικὴν ἀφανίσωμεν, ἄπορος ἡμῖν
ἡ μετὰ τοῦτο ἔσται ζήτησις τῆς βασιλικῆς ἐπιστήμης;
Str.And if we do away with the art of statesmanship, our subsequent search for the kingly art will be hopeless, will it not?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Καὶ μάλα.
Y. Soc.Certainly.
ΞΕ.Πότερον οὖν, καθάπερ ἐν τῷ σοφιστῇ προσηναγκάσαμεν
εἶναι τὸ μὴ ὄν, ἐπειδὴ κατὰ τοῦτο διέφυγεν ἡμᾶς
ὁ λόγος, οὕτω καὶ νῦν τὸ πλέον αὖ καὶ ἔλαττον μετρητὰ
προσαναγκαστέον γίγνεσθαι μὴ πρὸς ἄλληλα μόνον ἀλλὰ καὶ
284c πρὸς τὴν τοῦ μετρίου γένεσιν; οὐ γὰρ δὴ δυνατόν γε οὔτε
πολιτικὸν οὔτ' ἄλλον τινὰ τῶν περὶ τὰς πράξεις ἐπιστήμονα
ἀναμφισβητήτως γεγονέναι τούτου μὴ συνομολογηθέντος.
Str.Then just as in the case of the sophist we forced the conclusion that not-being exists, since that was the point at which we had lost our hold of the argument, so now we must force this second conclusion, that the greater and the less are to be measured in relation, not only to one another, but also to the establishment of the standard of the mean, must we not? For if this is not admitted, neither the statesman nor any other man who has knowledge of practical affairs can be said without any doubt to exist.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Οὐκοῦν καὶ νῦν ὅτι μάλιστα χρὴ ταὐτὸν
ποιεῖν.
Y. Soc.Then we must by all means do now the same that we did then.
ΞΕ.Πλέον, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἔτι τοῦτο τὸ ἔργον ἢ 'κεῖνο—
καίτοι κἀκείνου γε μεμνήμεθα τὸ μῆκος ὅσον ἦν—ἀλλ'
ὑποτίθεσθαι μὲν τὸ τοιόνδε περὶ αὐτῶν καὶ μάλα δίκαιον.
Str.This, Socrates, is a still greater task than that was; and yet we remember how long that took us; but it is perfectly fair to make about them some such assumption as this.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τὸ ποῖον;
Y. Soc.As what?
284d ΞΕ.Ὥς ποτε δεήσει τοῦ νῦν λεχθέντος πρὸς τὴν περὶ
αὐτὸ τἀκριβὲς ἀπόδειξιν. ὅτι δὲ πρὸς τὰ νῦν καλῶς καὶ
ἱκανῶς δείκνυται, δοκεῖ μοι βοηθεῖν μεγαλοπρεπῶς ἡμῖν οὗτος
ὁ λόγος, ὡς ἄρα ἡγητέον ὁμοίως τὰς τέχνας πάσας εἶναι,
μεῖζόν τε ἅμα καὶ ἔλαττον μετρεῖσθαι μὴ πρὸς ἄλληλα μόνον
ἀλλὰ καὶ πρὸς τὴν τοῦ μετρίου γένεσιν. τούτου τε γὰρ ὄντος
ἐκεῖνα ἔστι, κἀκείνων οὐσῶν ἔστι καὶ τοῦτο, μὴ δὲ ὄντος
ποτέρου τούτων οὐδέτερον αὐτῶν ἔσται ποτέ.
Str.That sometime we shall need this principle of the mean for the demonstration of absolute precise truth. But our belief that the demonstration is for our present purpose good and sufficient is, in my opinion, magnificently supported by this argument—that we must believe that all the arts alike exist and that the greater and the less are measured in relation not only to one another but also to the establishment of the standard of the mean. For if this exists, they exist also, and if they exist, it exists also, but neither can ever exist if the other does not.
284e ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τοῦτο μὲν ὀρθῶς· ἀλλὰ τί δὴ τὸ μετὰ τοῦτο;
Y. Soc.That is quite right. But what comes next?
ΞΕ.Δῆλον ὅτι διαιροῖμεν ἂν τὴν μετρητικήν, καθάπερ
ἐρρήθη, ταύτῃ δίχα τέμνοντες, ἓν μὲν τιθέντες αὐτῆς μόριον
συμπάσας τέχνας ὁπόσαι τὸν ἀριθμὸν καὶ μήκη καὶ βάθη
καὶ πλάτη καὶ ταχυτῆτας πρὸς τοὐναντίον μετροῦσιν, τὸ δὲ
ἕτερον, ὁπόσαι πρὸς τὸ μέτριον καὶ τὸ πρέπον καὶ τὸν καιρὸν
καὶ τὸ δέον καὶ πάνθ' ὁπόσα εἰς τὸ μέσον ἀπῳκίσθη τῶν
ἐσχάτων.
Str.We should evidently divide the science of measurement into two parts in accordance with what has been said. One part comprises all the arts which measure number, length, depth, breadth, and thickness in relation to their opposites; the other comprises those which measure them in relation to the moderate, the fitting, the opportune, the needful, and all the other standards that are situated in the mean between the extremes.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Καὶ μέγα γε ἑκάτερον τμῆμα εἶπες, καὶ πολὺ
διαφέρον ἀλλήλοιν.
Y. Soc.Both of your divisions are extensive, and there is a great difference between them.
ΞΕ.Ὃ γὰρ ἐνίοτε, ὦ Σώκρατες, οἰόμενοι δή τι σοφὸν
285a φράζειν πολλοὶ τῶν κομψῶν λέγουσιν, ὡς ἄρα μετρητικὴ
περὶ πάντ' ἐστὶ τὰ γιγνόμενα, τοῦτ' αὐτὸ τὸ νῦν λεχθὲν ὂν
τυγχάνει. μετρήσεως μὲν γὰρ δή τινα τρόπον πάνθ' ὁπόσα
ἔντεχνα μετείληφεν· διὰ δὲ τὸ μὴ κατ' εἴδη συνειθίσθαι
σκοπεῖν διαιρουμένους ταῦτά τε τοσοῦτον διαφέροντα συμβάλλουσιν
εὐθὺς εἰς ταὐτὸν ὅμοια νομίσαντες, καὶ τοὐναντίον
αὖ τούτου δρῶσιν ἕτερα οὐ κατὰ μέρη διαιροῦντες, δέον, ὅταν
285b μὲν τὴν τῶν πολλῶν τις πρότερον αἴσθηται κοινωνίαν, μὴ
προαφίστασθαι πρὶν ἂν ἐν αὐτῇ τὰς διαφορὰς ἴδῃ πάσας
ὁπόσαιπερ ἐν εἴδεσι κεῖνται, τὰς δὲ αὖ παντοδαπὰς ἀνομοιότητας,
ὅταν ἐν πλήθεσιν ὀφθῶσιν, μὴ δυνατὸν εἶναι δυσωπούμενον
παύεσθαι πρὶν ἂν σύμπαντα τὰ οἰκεῖα ἐντὸς μιᾶς
ὁμοιότητος ἕρξας γένους τινὸς οὐσίᾳ περιβάληται. ταῦτα
μὲν οὖν ἱκανῶς περί τε τούτων καὶ περὶ τῶν ἐλλείψεων καὶ
ὑπερβολῶν εἰρήσθω· φυλάττωμεν δὲ μόνον ὅτι δύο γένη
285c περὶ αὐτὰ ἐξηύρηται τῆς μετρητικῆς, καὶ ἅ φαμεν αὔτ' εἶναι
μεμνώμεθα.
Str.Yes, for what many clever persons occasionally say, Socrates, fancying that it is a wise remark, namely, that the science of measurement has to do with everything, is precisely the same as what we have just said. For in a certain way all things which are in the province of art do partake of measurement; but because people are not in the habit of considering things by dividing them into classes, they hastily put these widely different relations into the same category, thinking they are alike; and again they do the opposite of this when they fail to divide other things into parts. What they ought to do is this: when a person at first sees only the unity or common quality of many things, he must not give up until he sees all the differences in them, so far as they exist in classes; and conversely, when all sorts of dissimilarities are seen in a large number of objects he must find it impossible to be discouraged or to stop until has gathered into one circle of similarity all the things which are related to each other and has included them in some sort of class on the basis of their essential nature. No more need be said, then, about this or about deficiency and excess; let us only bear carefully in mind that two kinds of measurement which apply to them have been found, and let us remember what those kinds are.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Μεμνησόμεθα.
Y. Soc.We will remember.
ΞΕ.Μετὰ τοῦτον δὴ τὸν λόγον ἕτερον προσδεξώμεθα
περὶ αὐτῶν τε τῶν ζητουμένων καὶ περὶ πάσης τῆς ἐν τοῖς
τοιοῖσδε λόγοις διατριβῆς.
Str.Now that we have finished this discussion, let us take up another which concerns the actual objects of our inquiry and the conduct of such discussions in general.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τὸ ποῖον;
Y. Soc.What is it?
ΞΕ.Εἴ τις ἀνέροιτο ἡμᾶς τὴν περὶ γράμματα συνουσίαν
τῶν μανθανόντων, ὁπόταν τις ὁτιοῦν ὄνομα ἐρωτηθῇ τίνων
ἐστὶ γραμμάτων, πότερον αὐτῷ τότε φῶμεν γίγνεσθαι τὴν
285d ζήτησιν ἑνὸς ἕνεκα μᾶλλον τοῦ προβληθέντος ἢ τοῦ περὶ
πάντα τὰ προβαλλόμενα γραμματικωτέρῳ γίγνεσθαι;
Str.Suppose we were asked the following question about a group of pupils learning their letters: When a pupil is asked of what letters some word or other composed, is the question asked for the sake of the one particular word before him or rather to make him more learned about all words in the lesson?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Δῆλον ὅτι τοῦ περὶ ἅπαντα.
Y. Soc.Clearly to make him more learned about them all.
ΞΕ.Τί δ' αὖ νῦν ἡμῖν ἡ περὶ τοῦ πολιτικοῦ ζήτησις;
ἕνεκα αὐτοῦ τούτου προβέβληται μᾶλλον ἢ τοῦ περὶ πάντα
διαλεκτικωτέροις γίγνεσθαι;
Str.And how about our own investigation of the statesman? Has it been undertaken for the sake of his particular subject or rather to make us better thinkers about all subjects?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Καὶ τοῦτο δῆλον ὅτι τοῦ περὶ πάντα.
Y. Soc.Clearly this also is done with a view to them all.
ΞΕ.Ἦ που τὸν τῆς ὑφαντικῆς γε λόγον αὐτῆς ταύτης
ἕνεκα θηρεύειν οὐδεὶς ἂν ἐθελήσειεν νοῦν ἔχων· ἀλλ' οἶμαι
τοὺς πλείστους λέληθεν ὅτι τοῖς μὲν τῶν ὄντων ῥᾳδίως
285e καταμαθεῖν αἰσθηταί τινες ὁμοιότητες πεφύκασιν, ἃς οὐδὲν
χαλεπὸν δηλοῦν, ὅταν αὐτῶν τις βουληθῇ τῷ λόγον αἰτοῦντι
περί του μὴ μετὰ πραγμάτων ἀλλὰ χωρὶς λόγου ῥᾳδίως
ἐνδείξασθαι· τοῖς δ' αὖ μεγίστοις οὖσι καὶ τιμιωτάτοις
286a οὐκ ἔστιν εἴδωλον οὐδὲν πρὸς τοὺς ἀνθρώπους εἰργασμένον
ἐναργῶς, οὗ δειχθέντος τὴν τοῦ πυνθανομένου ψυχὴν ὁ
βουλόμενος ἀποπληρῶσαι, πρὸς τῶν αἰσθήσεών τινα προσαρμόττων,
ἱκανῶς πληρώσει. διὸ δεῖ μελετᾶν λόγον ἑκάστου
δυνατὸν εἶναι δοῦναι καὶ δέξασθαι· τὰ γὰρ ἀσώματα, κάλλιστα
ὄντα καὶ μέγιστα, λόγῳ μόνον ἄλλῳ δὲ οὐδενὶ σαφῶς δείκνυται,
τούτων δὲ ἕνεκα πάντ' ἐστὶ τὰ νῦν λεγόμενα. ῥᾴων
286b δ' ἐν τοῖς ἐλάττοσιν ἡ μελέτη παντὸς πέρι μᾶλλον ἢ περὶ
τὰ μείζω.
Str.Of course no man of sense would wish to pursue the discussion of weaving for its own sake; but most people, it seems to me, fail to notice that some things have sensible resemblances which are easily perceived; and it is not at all difficult to show them when anyone wishes, in response to a request for an explanation of some one of them, to exhibit them easily without trouble and really without explanation. But, on the other hand, the greatest and noblest conceptions have no image wrought plainly for human vision, which he who wishes to satisfy the mind of the inquirer can apply to some one of his senses and by mere exhibition satisfy the mind.
We must therefore endeavor by practice to acquire the power of giving and understanding a rational definition of each one of them; for immaterial things, which are the noblest and greatest, can be exhibited by reason only, and it is for their sake that all we are saying is said. But it is always easier to practise in small matters than in greater ones.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Κάλλιστ' εἶπες.
Y. Soc.Excellent.
ΞΕ.Ὧν τοίνυν χάριν ἅπανθ' ἡμῖν ταῦτ' ἐρρήθη περὶ
τούτων, μνησθῶμεν.
Str.Let us, then, remember the reason for all that we have said about these matters.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τίνων;
Y. Soc.What is the reason?
ΞΕ.Ταύτης τε οὐχ ἥκιστα αὐτῆς ἕνεκα τῆς δυσχερείας
ἣν περὶ τὴν μακρολογίαν τὴν περὶ τὴν ὑφαντικὴν ἀπεδεξάμεθα
δυσχερῶς, καὶ τὴν περὶ τὴν τοῦ παντὸς ἀνείλιξιν καὶ
τὴν τοῦ σοφιστοῦ πέρι τῆς τοῦ μὴ ὄντος οὐσίας, ἐννοοῦντες
ὡς ἔσχε μῆκος πλέον, καὶ ἐπὶ τούτοις δὴ πᾶσιν ἐπεπλήξαμεν
286c ἡμῖν αὐτοῖς, δείσαντες μὴ περίεργα ἅμα καὶ μακρὰ λέγοιμεν.
ἵν' οὖν εἰς αὖθις μηδὲν πάσχωμεν τοιοῦτον, τούτων ἕνεκα
πάντων τὰ πρόσθε νῷν εἰρῆσθαι φάθι.
Str.The reason is chiefly just that irritating impatience which we exhibited in relation to the long talk about weaving and the revolution of the universe and the sophist’s long talk about the existence of not-being. We felt that they were too long, and we reproached ourselves for all of them, fearing that our talk was not only long, but irrelevant. Consider, therefore, that the reason for what has just been said is my wish to avoid any such impatience in the future.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ταῦτ' ἔσται. λέγε ἑξῆς μόνον.
Y. Soc.Very well. Please go on with what you have to say.
ΞΕ.Λέγω τοίνυν ὅτι χρὴ δὴ μεμνημένους ἐμὲ καὶ σὲ
τῶν νῦν εἰρημένων τόν τε ψόγον ἑκάστοτε καὶ ἔπαινον
ποιεῖσθαι βραχύτητος ἅμα καὶ μήκους ὧν ἂν ἀεὶ πέρι
λέγωμεν, μὴ πρὸς ἄλληλα τὰ μήκη κρίνοντες ἀλλὰ κατὰ τὸ
286d τῆς μετρητικῆς μέρος ὃ τότε ἔφαμεν δεῖν μεμνῆσθαι, πρὸς
τὸ πρέπον.
Str.What I have to say, then, is that you and I, remembering what has just been said, must praise or blame the brevity or length of our several discussions, not by comparing their various lengths with one another, but with reference to that part of the science of measurement which we said before must be borne in mind; I mean the standard of fitness.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ὀρθῶς.
Y. Soc.Quite right.
ΞΕ.Οὐ τοίνυν οὐδὲ πρὸς τοῦτο πάντα. οὔτε γὰρ πρὸς
τὴν ἡδονὴν μήκους ἁρμόττοντος οὐδὲν προσδεησόμεθα, πλὴν
εἰ πάρεργόν τι· τό τε αὖ πρὸς τὴν τοῦ προβληθέντος ζήτησιν,
ὡς ἂν ῥᾷστα καὶ τάχιστα εὕροιμεν, δεύτερον ἀλλ' οὐ πρῶτον
ὁ λόγος ἀγαπᾶν παραγγέλλει, πολὺ δὲ μάλιστα καὶ πρῶτον
τὴν μέθοδον αὐτὴν τιμᾶν τοῦ κατ' εἴδη δυνατὸν εἶναι διαιρεῖν,
286e καὶ δὴ καὶ λόγον, ἄντε παμμήκης λεχθεὶς τὸν ἀκούσαντα
εὑρετικώτερον ἀπεργάζηται, τοῦτον σπουδάζειν καὶ τῷ μήκει
μηδὲν ἀγανακτεῖν, ἄντ' αὖ βραχύτερος, ὡσαύτως· ἔτι δ' αὖ
πρὸς τούτοις τὸν περὶ τὰς τοιάσδε συνουσίας ψέγοντα λόγων
μήκη καὶ τὰς ἐν κύκλῳ περιόδους οὐκ ἀποδεχόμενον, ὅτι χρὴ
τὸν τοιοῦτον μὴ [πάνυ] ταχὺ μηδ' εὐθὺς οὕτω μεθιέναι ψέξαντα
287a μόνον ὡς μακρὰ τὰ λεχθέντα, ἀλλὰ καὶ προσαποφαίνειν
οἴεσθαι δεῖν ὡς βραχύτερα ἂν γενόμενα τοὺς συνόντας
ἀπηργάζετο διαλεκτικωτέρους καὶ τῆς τῶν ὄντων λόγῳ δηλώσεως
εὑρετικωτέρους, τῶν δὲ ἄλλων καὶ πρὸς ἄλλ' ἄττα
ψόγων καὶ ἐπαίνων μηδὲν φροντίζειν μηδὲ τὸ παράπαν
ἀκούειν δοκεῖν τῶν τοιούτων λόγων. καὶ τούτων μὲν ἅλις,
εἰ καὶ σοὶ ταύτῃ συνδοκεῖ· πρὸς δὲ δὴ τὸν πολιτικὸν
287b ἴωμεν πάλιν, τῆς προρρηθείσης ὑφαντικῆς αὐτῷ φέροντες τὸ
παράδειγμα.
Str.But we must not always judge of length by fitness, either. For we shall not in the least want a length that is fitted to give pleasure, except, perhaps, as a secondary consideration; and again reason counsels us to accept fitness for the easiest and quickest completion of the inquiry in which we are engaged, not as the first, but as the second thing to be desired. By far our first and most important object should be to exalt the method itself of ability to divide by classes, and therefore, if a discourse, even though it be very long, makes the hearer better able to discover the truth, we should accept it eagerly and should not be offended by its length, or if it is short, we should judge it in the same way. And, moreover, anyone who finds fault with the length of discourses in our discussions, or objects to roundabout methods, must not merely find fault with the speeches for their length and then pass them quickly and hastily by, but he must also show that there is ground for the belief that if they had been briefer they would have made their hearers better dialecticians and quicker to discover through reason the truth of realities. About other people and the praise or blame they direct towards other qualities in discourse, we need not be concerned; we need not even appear to hear them. But enough of this, if you feel about it as I do; so let us go back to the statesman and apply to him the example of weaving that we spoke of a while ago.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Καλῶς εἶπες, καὶ ποιῶμεν ἃ λέγεις.
Y. Soc.Very well; let us do so.
ΞΕ.Οὐκοῦν ἀπό γε τῶν πολλῶν ὁ βασιλεὺς ὅσαι
σύννομοι, μᾶλλον δὲ ἀπὸ πασῶν τῶν περὶ τὰς ἀγέλας
διακεχώρισται· λοιπαὶ δέ, φαμέν, αἱ κατὰ πόλιν αὐτὴν τῶν
τε συναιτίων καὶ τῶν αἰτίων, ἃς πρώτας ἀπ' ἀλλήλων
διαιρετέον.
Str.The art of the king, then, has been separated from most of the kindred arts, or rather from all the arts that have to do with herds. There remain, however, the arts that have to do with the state itself. These are both causes and contingent causes, and our first duty is to separate them from one another.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ὀρθῶς.
Y. Soc.Quite right.
ΞΕ.Οἶσθ' οὖν ὅτι χαλεπὸν αὐτὰς τεμεῖν δίχα; τὸ δ'
287c αἴτιον, ὡς οἶμαι, προϊοῦσιν οὐχ ἧττον ἔσται καταφανές.
Str.It is not easy to divide them into halves, you know. But I think the reason will nevertheless be clear as we go on.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Οὐκοῦν χρὴ δρᾶν οὕτως.
Y. Soc.Then we had better divide in another way.
ΞΕ.Κατὰ μέλη τοίνυν αὐτὰς οἷον ἱερεῖον διαιρώμεθα,
ἐπειδὴ δίχα ἀδυνατοῦμεν. δεῖ γὰρ εἰς τὸν ἐγγύτατα ὅτι
μάλιστα τέμνειν ἀριθμὸν ἀεί.
Str.Let us divide them, then, like an animal that is sacrificed, by joints, since we cannot bisect them; for we must always divide into a number of parts as near two as possible.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς οὖν ποιῶμεν τὰ νῦν;
Y. Soc.How shall we do it in the present instance?
ΞΕ.Ὥσπερ ἔμπροσθεν, ὁπόσαι παρείχοντο ὄργανα περὶ
τὴν ὑφαντικήν, πάσας δήπου τότε ἐτίθεμεν ὡς συναιτίους.
Str.Just as in the previous case, you know, we classed all the arts which furnished tools for weaving as contingent causes.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ναί.
Y. Soc.Yes.
ΞΕ.Καὶ νῦν δὴ ταὐτὸν μὲν τοῦτο, ἔτι δὲ μᾶλλον ἢ τόθ'
287d ἡμῖν ποιητέον. ὅσαι γὰρ σμικρὸν ἢ μέγα τι δημιουργοῦσι
κατὰ πόλιν ὄργανον, θετέον ἁπάσας ταύτας ὡς οὔσας συναιτίους.
ἄνευ γὰρ τούτων οὐκ ἄν ποτε γένοιτο πόλις οὐδὲ πολιτική,
τούτων δ' αὖ βασιλικῆς ἔργον τέχνης οὐδέν που θήσομεν.
Str.So now we must do the same thing, but it is even more imperative. For all the arts which furnish any implement, great or small, for the state, must be classed as contingent causes; for without them neither state nor statesmanship could ever exist, and yet I do not suppose we shall reckon any of them as the work of the kingly art.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Οὐ γάρ.
Y. Soc.No.
ΞΕ.Καὶ μὲν δὴ χαλεπὸν ἐπιχειροῦμεν δρᾶν ἀποχωρίζοντες
τοῦτο ἀπὸ τῶν ἄλλων τὸ γένος· ὅτι γὰρ οὖν τῶν ὄντων
ἔστιν ὡς ἑνός γέ τινος ὄργανον εἰπόντα δοκεῖν εἰρηκέναι
287e τι πιθανόν. ὅμως δὲ ἕτερον αὖ τῶν ἐν πόλει κτημάτων
εἴπωμεν τόδε.
Str.We shall certainly be undertaking a hard task in separating this class from the rest; for it might be said that everything that exists is the instrument of something or other, and the statement seems plausible. But there are possessions of another kind in the state, about which I wish to say something.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τὸ ποῖον;
Y. Soc.What do you wish to say?
ΞΕ.Ὡς οὐκ ἔστι ταύτην τὴν δύναμιν ἔχον. οὐ γὰρ ἐπὶ
γενέσεως αἰτίᾳ πήγνυται, καθάπερ ὄργανον, ἀλλ' ἕνεκα τοῦ
δημιουργηθέντος σωτηρίας.
Str.That they do not possess this instrumental function. For they are not, like tools or instruments, made for the purpose of being causes of production, but exist for the preservation of that which has been produced.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τὸ ποῖον;
Y. Soc.What is this class of possessions?
ΞΕ.Τοῦτο ὃ δὴ ξηροῖς καὶ ὑγροῖς καὶ ἐμπύροις καὶ
ἀπύροις παντοδαπὸν εἶδος ἐργασθὲν ἀγγεῖον [ὃ δὴ] μιᾷ κλήσει
προσφθεγγόμεθα, καὶ μάλα γε συχνὸν εἶδος καὶ τῇ ζητουμένῃ
288a γε, ὡς οἶμαι, προσῆκον οὐδὲν ἀτεχνῶς ἐπιστήμῃ.
Str.That very various class which is made with dry and wet materials and such as are wrought by fire and without fire; it is called collectively the class of receptacles; it is a very large class and has, so far as I can see, nothing at all to do with the art we are studying.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς γὰρ οὔ;
Y. Soc.No, of course not.
ΞΕ.Τούτων δὴ τρίτον ἕτερον εἶδος κτημάτων πάμπολυ
κατοπτέον πεζὸν καὶ ἔνυδρον καὶ πολυπλανὲς καὶ ἀπλανὲς
καὶ τίμιον καὶ ἄτιμον, ἓν δὲ ὄνομα ἔχον, διότι πᾶν ἕνεκά
τινος ἐφέδρας ἐστί, θᾶκος ἀεί τινι γιγνόμενον.
Str.And there is a third very large class of possessions to be noticed, differing from these; it is found on land and on water, it wanders about and is stationary, it is honorable and without honor, but it has one name, because the whole class is always a seat for some one and exists to be sat upon.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τὸ ποῖον;
Y. Soc.What is it?
ΞΕ.Ὄχημα αὐτό που λέγομεν, οὐ πάνυ πολιτικῆς
ἔργον, ἀλλὰ μᾶλλον πολὺ τεκτονικῆς καὶ κεραμικῆς καὶ
χαλκοτυπικῆς.
Str.We call it a vehicle, and it certainly is not at all the work of statesmanship, but much rather that of the arts of carpentry, pottery and bronze-working.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Μανθάνω.
Y. Soc.I understand.
288b ΞΕ.Τί δὲ τέταρτον; ἆρ' ἕτερον εἶναι τούτων λεκτέον,
ἐν ᾧ τὰ πλεῖστά ἐστι τῶν πάλαι ῥηθέντων, ἐσθής τε σύμπασα
καὶ τῶν ὅπλων τὸ πολὺ καὶ τείχη πάντα θ' ὅσα γήινα
περιβλήματα καὶ λίθινα, καὶ μυρία ἕτερα; προβολῆς δὲ
ἕνεκα συμπάντων αὐτῶν εἰργασμένων δικαιότατ' ἂν ὅλον
προσαγορεύοιτο πρόβλημα, καὶ πολλῷ μᾶλλον τέχνης οἰκοδομικῆς
ἔργον καὶ ὑφαντικῆς τὸ πλεῖστον νομίζοιτ' ἂν
ὀρθότερον ἢ πολιτικῆς.
Str.And is there a fourth class? Shall we say that there is one, differing from those three, one to which most of the things we have mentioned belong—all clothing, most arms, all circuit walls of earth or of stone, and countless other things? And since they are all made for defence, they may most rightly be called by the collective name of defence, and this may much more properly be considered for the most part the work of the art of building or of weaving than of statesmanship.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πάνυ μὲν οὖν.
Y. Soc.Certainly.
288c ΞΕ.Πέμπτον δὲ ἆρ' ἂν ἐθέλοιμεν τὸ περὶ τὸν κόσμον
καὶ γραφικὴν θεῖναι καὶ ὅσα ταύτῃ προσχρώμενα καὶ μουσικῇ
μιμήματα τελεῖται, πρὸς τὰς ἡδονὰς μόνον ἡμῶν ἀπειργασμένα,
δικαίως δ' ἂν ὀνόματι περιληφθέντα ἑνί;
Str.And should we care to make a fifth class, of ornamentation and painting and all the imitations created by the use of painting and music solely for our pleasure and properly included under one name?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ποίῳ;
Y. Soc.What is its name?
ΞΕ.Παίγνιόν πού τι λέγεται.
Str.It is called by some such name as plaything.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τί μήν;
Y. Soc.To be sure.
ΞΕ.Τοῦτο τοίνυν τούτοις ἓν ὄνομα ἅπασι πρέψει προςαγορευθέν·
οὐ γὰρ σπουδῆς οὐδὲν αὐτῶν χάριν, ἀλλὰ παιδιᾶς
ἕνεκα πάντα δρᾶται.
Str.So this one name will properly be applied to all the members of this class; for none of them is practised for any serious purpose, but all of them merely for play.
288d ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Καὶ τοῦτο σχεδόν τι μανθάνω.
Y. Soc.I understand that pretty well, too.
ΞΕ.Τὸ δὲ πᾶσιν τούτοις σώματα παρέχον, ἐξ ὧν καὶ
ἐν οἷς δημιουργοῦσιν ὁπόσαι τῶν τεχνῶν νῦν εἴρηνται,
παντοδαπὸν εἶδος πολλῶν ἑτέρων τεχνῶν ἔκγονον ὄν, ἆρ'
οὐχ ἕκτον θήσομεν;
Str.And shall we not make a sixth class of that which furnishes to all these the materials of which and in which all the arts we have mentioned fashion their works, a very various class, the offspring of many other arts?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τὸ ποῖον δὴ λέγεις;
Y. Soc.What do you mean?
ΞΕ.Χρυσόν τε καὶ ἄργυρον καὶ πάνθ' ὁπόσα μεταλλεύεται
καὶ ὅσα δρυοτομικὴ καὶ κουρὰ σύμπασα τέμνουσα
παρέχει τεκτονικῇ καὶ πλεκτικῇ· καὶ ἔτι φλοιστικὴ φυτῶν
288e τε καὶ ἐμψύχων δέρματα σωμάτων περιαιροῦσα σκυτοτομική,
καὶ ὅσαι περὶ τὰ τοιαῦτά εἰσιν τέχναι, καὶ φελλῶν καὶ βύβλων
καὶ δεσμῶν ἐργαστικαὶ παρέσχον δημιουργεῖν σύνθετα ἐκ μὴ
συντιθεμένων εἴδη γενῶν. ἓν δὲ αὐτὸ προσαγορεύομεν πᾶν
τὸ πρωτογενὲς ἀνθρώποις κτῆμα καὶ ἀσύνθετον καὶ βασιλικῆς
ἐπιστήμης οὐδαμῶς ἔργον ὄν.
Str.Gold and silver and all the products of the mines and all the materials which tree-felling and wood-cutting in general cut and provide for carpentry and basket-weaving; and then, too, the art of stripping the bark from plants and the leather-worker’s art which takes off the skins of animals, and all the other arts which have to do with such matters, and those that make corks and paper and cords and enable us to manufacture composite classes of things from kinds that are not composite. We call all this, as one class, the primary and simple possession of man, and it is in no way the work of the kingly science.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Καλῶς.
Y. Soc.Good.
ΞΕ.Τὴν δὴ τῆς τροφῆς κτῆσιν, καὶ ὅσα εἰς τὸ σῶμα
συγκαταμειγνύμενα ἑαυτῶν μέρεσι μέρη σώματος εἰς τὸ
289a θεραπεῦσαί τινα δύναμιν εἴληχε, λεκτέον ἕβδομον ὀνομάσαντας
αὐτὸ σύμπαν ἡμῶν εἶναι τροφόν, εἰ μή τι κάλλιον
ἔχομεν ἄλλο θέσθαι· γεωργικῇ δὲ καὶ θηρευτικῇ καὶ γυμναστικῇ
καὶ ἰατρικῇ καὶ μαγειρικῇ πᾶν ὑποτιθέντες ὀρθότερον
ἀποδώσομεν ἢ τῇ πολιτικῇ.
Str.And property in food and all the things which, mingling parts of themselves with parts of the body, have any function of keeping it in health, we may say is the seventh class, and we will call it collectively our nourishment, unless we have some better name to give it. All this we can assign to the arts of husbandry, hunting, gymnastics, medicine, and cooking more properly than to that of statesmanship.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς γὰρ οὔ;
Y. Soc.Of course.
ΞΕ.Σχεδὸν τοίνυν ὅσα ἔχεται κτήσεως, πλὴν τῶν
ἡμέρων ζῴων, ἐν τούτοις ἑπτὰ οἶμαι γένεσιν εἰρῆσθαι.
σκόπει δέ· ἦν γὰρ δικαιότατα μὲν ἂν τεθὲν κατ' ἀρχὰς τὸ
289b πρωτογενὲς εἶδος, μετὰ δὲ τοῦτο ὄργανον, ἀγγεῖον, ὄχημα,
πρόβλημα, παίγνιον, θρέμμα. <ἃ> παραλείπομεν δέ, εἴ
τι μὴ μέγα λέληθεν, εἴς τι τούτων δυνατὸν ἁρμόττειν,
οἷον ἡ τοῦ νομίσματος ἰδέα καὶ σφραγίδων καὶ παντὸς
χαρακτῆρος. γένος τε γὰρ ἐν αὑτοῖς ταῦτα οὐδὲν ἔχει
μέγα σύννομον, ἀλλὰ τὰ μὲν εἰς κόσμον, τὰ δὲ εἰς ὄργανα
βίᾳ μέν, ὅμως δὲ πάντως ἑλκόμενα συμφωνήσει.
τὰ δὲ περὶ ζῴων κτῆσιν τῶν ἡμέρων, πλὴν δούλων, ἡ
289c πρότερον ἀγελαιοτροφικὴ διαμερισθεῖσα πάντ' εἰληφυῖα
ἀναφανεῖται.
Str.Now I think I have in these seven classes mentioned nearly all kinds of property except tame animals. See: there was the primary possession, which ought in justice to have been placed first, and after this the instrument, receptacle, vehicle, defence, plaything, nourishment. Whatever we have omitted, unless some important thing has been overlooked, can find its place in one of those classes; for instance, the group of coins, seals, and stamps, for there is not among these any kinship such as to form a large class, but some of them can be made to fit into the class of ornaments, others into that of instruments, though the classification is somewhat forced. All property in tame animals, except slaves, is included in the art of herding, which has already been divided into parts.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πάνυ μὲν οὖν.
Y. Soc.Yes quite true.
ΞΕ.Τὸ δὲ δὴ δούλων καὶ πάντων ὑπηρετῶν λοιπόν, ἐν
οἷς που καὶ μαντεύομαι τοὺς περὶ αὐτὸ τὸ πλέγμα ἀμφισβητοῦντας
τῷ βασιλεῖ καταφανεῖς γενήσεσθαι, καθάπερ τοῖς
ὑφάνταις τότε τοὺς περὶ τὸ νήθειν τε καὶ ξαίνειν καὶ ὅσα
ἄλλα εἴπομεν. οἱ δὲ ἄλλοι πάντες, ὡς συναίτιοι λεχθέντες,
ἅμα τοῖς ἔργοις τοῖς νυνδὴ ῥηθεῖσιν ἀνήλωνται καὶ ἀπεχωρίσθησαν
289d ἀπὸ βασιλικῆς τε καὶ πολιτικῆς πράξεως.
Str.There remains the class of slaves and servants in general, and here I prophesy that we shall find those who set up claims against the king for the very fabric of his art, just as the spinners and carders and the rest of whom we spoke advanced claims against the weavers a while ago. All the others, whom we called contingent causes, have been removed along with the works we just mentioned and have been separated from the activity of the king and the statesman.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ἐοίκασι γοῦν.
Y. Soc.That seems to be the case, at least.
ΞΕ.Ἴθι δὴ σκεψώμεθα τοὺς λοιποὺς προσελθόντες
ἐγγύθεν, ἵνα αὐτοὺς εἰδῶμεν βεβαιότερον.
Str.Come then, let us step up and look from close at hand at those who are left, that so we may know them more surely.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Οὐκοῦν χρή.
Y. Soc.Yes, that is what we should do.
ΞΕ.Τοὺς μὲν δὴ μεγίστους ὑπηρέτας, ὡς ἐνθένδε ἰδεῖν,
τοὐναντίον ἔχοντας εὑρίσκομεν οἷς ὑπωπτεύσαμεν ἐπιτήδευμα
καὶ πάθος.
Str.We shall find, then, that the greatest servants, when seen from near at hand, are in conduct and condition the opposite of that which we suspected.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τίνας;
Y. Soc.Who are they?
ΞΕ.Τοὺς ὠνητούς τε καὶ τῷ τρόπῳ τούτῳ κτητούς· οὓς
289e ἀναμφισβητήτως δούλους ἔχομεν εἰπεῖν; ἥκιστα βασιλικῆς
μεταποιουμένους τέχνης.
Str.The bought servants, acquired by purchase, whom we can without question call slaves. They make no claim to any share in the kingly art.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς δ' οὔ;
Y. Soc.Certainly not.
ΞΕ.Τί δέ; τῶν ἐλευθέρων ὅσοι τοῖς νυνδὴ ῥηθεῖσιν εἰς
ὑπηρετικὴν ἑκόντες αὑτοὺς τάττουσι, τά τε γεωργίας καὶ τὰ
τῶν ἄλλων τεχνῶν ἔργα διακομίζοντες ἐπ' ἀλλήλους καὶ
ἀνισοῦντες, οἱ μὲν κατ' ἀγοράς, οἱ δὲ πόλιν ἐκ πόλεως
ἀλλάττοντες κατὰ θάλατταν καὶ πεζῇ, νόμισμά τε πρὸς τὰ
ἄλλα καὶ αὐτὸ πρὸς αὑτὸ διαμείβοντες, οὓς ἀργυραμοιβούς τε
290a καὶ ἐμπόρους καὶ ναυκλήρους καὶ καπήλους ἐπωνομάκαμεν,
μῶν τῆς πολιτικῆς ἀμφισβητήσουσί τι;
Str.How about those free men who put themselves voluntarily in the position of servants of those whom we mentioned before? I mean the men who carry about and distribute among one another the productions of husbandry and the other arts, whether in the domestic marketplaces or by travelling from city to city by land or sea, exchanging money for wares or money for money, the men whom we call brokers, merchants, shipmasters, and peddlers; do they lay any claim to statesmanship?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τάχ' ἂν ἴσως τῆς γε τῶν ἐμπορευτικῶν.
Y. Soc.Possibly to commercial statesmanship
ΞΕ.Ἀλλ' οὐ μὴν οὕς γε ὁρῶμεν μισθωτοὺς καὶ θῆτας
πᾶσιν ἑτοιμότατα ὑπηρετοῦντας, μή ποτε βασιλικῆς μεταποιουμένους
εὕρωμεν.
Str.But certainly we shall never find laborers, whom we see only too glad to serve anybody for hire, claiming a share in the kingly art.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς γάρ;
Y. Soc.Certainly not.
ΞΕ.Τί δὲ ἄρα τοὺς τὰ τοιάδε διακονοῦντας ἡμῖν ἑκάστοτε;
Str.But there are people who perform services of another kind. How about them?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τὰ ποῖα εἶπες καὶ τίνας;
Y. Soc.What services and what men do you mean?
290b ΞΕ.Ὧν τὸ κηρυκικὸν ἔθνος, ὅσοι τε περὶ γράμματα
σοφοὶ γίγνονται πολλάκις ὑπηρετήσαντες, καὶ πόλλ' ἄττα
ἕτερα περὶ τὰς ἀρχὰς διαπονεῖσθαί τινες ἕτεροι πάνδεινοι,
τί τούτους αὖ λέξομεν;
Str.The class of heralds and those who become by long practice skilled as clerks and other clever men who perform various services in connection with public offices. What shall we call them?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ὅπερ εἶπες νῦν, ὑπηρέτας, ἀλλ' οὐκ αὐτοὺς ἐν
ταῖς πόλεσιν ἄρχοντας.
Y. Soc.What you called the others, servants; they are not themselves rulers in the states.
ΞΕ.Ἀλλὰ οὐ μὴν οἶμαί γε ἐνύπνιον ἰδὼν εἶπον ταύτῃ
πῃ φανήσεσθαι τοὺς διαφερόντως ἀμφισβητοῦντας τῆς πολιτικῆς.
καίτοι σφόδρα γε ἄτοπον ἂν εἶναι δόξειε τὸ ζητεῖν
290c τούτους ἐν ὑπηρετικῇ μοίρᾳ τινί.
Str.But surely it was no dream that made me say we should find somewhere in this region those who more than others lay claim to the art of statesmanship; and yet it would be utterly absurd to look for them in any servile position.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Κομιδῇ μὲν οὖν.
Y. Soc.Certainly.
ΞΕ.Ἔτι δὴ προσμείξωμεν ἐγγύτερον ἐπὶ τοὺς μήπω
βεβασανισμένους. εἰσὶ δὲ οἵ τε περὶ μαντικὴν ἔχοντές
τινος ἐπιστήμης διακόνου μόριον· ἑρμηνευταὶ γάρ που
νομίζονται παρὰ θεῶν ἀνθρώποις.
Str.But let us draw a little closer still to those whom we have not yet examined. There are men who have to do with divination and possess a portion of a certain menial science; for they are supposed to be interpreters of the gods to men.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ναί.
Y. Soc.Yes.
ΞΕ.Καὶ μὴν καὶ τὸ τῶν ἱερέων αὖ γένος, ὡς τὸ νόμιμόν
φησι, παρὰ μὲν ἡμῶν δωρεὰς θεοῖς διὰ θυσιῶν ἐπιστῆμόν
290d ἐστι κατὰ νοῦν ἐκείνοις δωρεῖσθαι, παρὰ δὲ ἐκείνων ἡμῖν εὐχαῖς
κτῆσιν ἀγαθῶν αἰτήσασθαι· ταῦτα δὲ διακόνου τέχνης
ἐστί που μόρια ἀμφότερα.
Str.And then, too, the priests, according to law and custom, know how to give the gods, by means of sacrifices, the gifts that please them from us and by prayers to ask for us the gain of good things from them; now these are both part of a servant’s art.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Φαίνεται γοῦν.
Y. Soc.At least they seem to be so.
ΞΕ.Ἤδη τοίνυν μοι δοκοῦμεν οἷόν γέ τινος ἴχνους ἐφ'
ὃ πορευόμεθα προσάπτεσθαι. τὸ γὰρ δὴ τῶν ἱερέων σχῆμα
καὶ τὸ τῶν μάντεων εὖ μάλα φρονήματος πληροῦται καὶ
δόξαν σεμνὴν λαμβάνει διὰ τὸ μέγεθος τῶν ἐγχειρημάτων,
ὥστε περὶ μὲν Αἴγυπτον οὐδ' ἔξεστι βασιλέα χωρὶς ἱερατικῆς
290e ἄρχειν, ἀλλ' ἐὰν ἄρα καὶ τύχῃ πρότερον ἐξ ἄλλου γένους
βιασάμενος, ὕστερον ἀναγκαῖον εἰς τοῦτο εἰστελεῖσθαι αὐτὸν
τὸ γένος· ἔτι δὲ καὶ τῶν Ἑλλήνων πολλαχοῦ ταῖς μεγίσταις
ἀρχαῖς τὰ μέγιστα τῶν περὶ τὰ τοιαῦτα θύματα εὕροι τις
ἂν προσταττόμενα θύειν. καὶ δὴ καὶ παρ' ὑμῖν οὐχ ἥκιστα
δῆλον ὃ λέγω· τῷ γὰρ λαχόντι βασιλεῖ φασιν τῇδε τὰ
σεμνότατα καὶ μάλιστα πάτρια τῶν ἀρχαίων θυσιῶν ἀποδεδόσθαι.
Str.At last, then, I think we are, as it were, on the track of our quarry. For the bearing of the priests and prophets is indeed full of pride, and they win high esteem because of the magnitude of their undertakings. In Egypt, for example, no king can rule without being a priest, and if he happens to have forced his way to the throne from some other class, he must enroll himself in the class of priests afterwards; and among the Greeks, too, you would find that in many states the performance of the greatest public sacrifices is a duty imposed upon the highest officials. Yes, among you Athenians this is very plain, for they say the holiest and most national of the ancient sacrifices are performed by the man whom the lot has chosen to be the King.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Καὶ πάνυ γε.
Y. Soc.Yes, certainly.
291a ΞΕ.Τούτους τε τοίνυν τοὺς κληρωτοὺς βασιλέας ἅμα
καὶ ἱερέας, καὶ ὑπηρέτας αὐτῶν καί τινα ἕτερον πάμπολυν
ὄχλον σκεπτέον, ὃς ἄρτι κατάδηλος νῦν ἡμῖν γέγονεν
ἀποχωρισθέντων τῶν ἔμπροσθεν.
Str.We must, then, examine these elected kings and priests and their assistants, and also another very large crowd of people which has just come in sight now that the others are out of the way.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τίνας δ' αὐτοὺς καὶ λέγεις;
Y. Soc.Who are these people?
ΞΕ.Καὶ μάλα τινὰς ἀτόπους.
Str.A very queer lot.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τί δή;
Y. Soc.How so?
ΞΕ.Πάμφυλόν τι γένος αὐτῶν, ὥς γε ἄρτι σκοπουμένῳ
φαίνεται. πολλοὶ μὲν γὰρ λέουσι τῶν ἀνδρῶν εἴξασι καὶ Κενταύροις
291b καὶ τοιούτοισιν ἑτέροις, πάμπολλοι δὲ Σατύροις καὶ
τοῖς ἀσθενέσι καὶ πολυτρόποις θηρίοις· ταχὺ δὲ μεταλλάττουσι
τάς τε ἰδέας καὶ τὴν δύναμιν εἰς ἀλλήλους. καὶ μέντοι
μοι νῦν, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἄρτι δοκῶ κατανενοηκέναι τοὺς ἄνδρας.
Str.They are of very mixed race at least they seem so now, when I can just see them. For many of them are like lions and centaurs and other fierce creatures, and very many are like satyrs and the weak and cunning beasts; and they make quick exchanges of forms and qualities with one another. Ah, but now, Socrates, I think I have just made out who they are.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Λέγοις ἄν· ἔοικας γὰρ ἄτοπόν τι καθορᾶν.
Y. Soc.Tell me; for you seem to have caught sight of something strange.
ΞΕ.Ναί· τὸ γὰρ ἄτοπον ἐξ ἀγνοίας πᾶσι συμβαίνει.
καὶ γὰρ δὴ καὶ νῦν αὐτὸς τοῦτ' ἔπαθον· ἐξαίφνης ἠμφεγνόησα
291c κατιδὼν τὸν περὶ τὰ τῶν πόλεων πράγματα χορόν.
Str.Yes, for ignorance makes things seem strange to everybody. That was what happened to me just now; when I suddenly caught sight of them I did not recognize the troop of those who busy themselves with the affairs of the state.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ποῖον;
Y. Soc.What troop?
ΞΕ.Τὸν πάντων τῶν σοφιστῶν μέγιστον γόητα καὶ
ταύτης τῆς τέχνης ἐμπειρότατον· ὃν ἀπὸ τῶν ὄντως ὄντων
πολιτικῶν καὶ βασιλικῶν καίπερ παγχάλεπον ὄντα ἀφαιρεῖν
ἀφαιρετέον, εἰ μέλλομεν ἰδεῖν ἐναργῶς τὸ ζητούμενον.
Str.That which of all the sophists is the greatest charlatan and most practised in charlatanry. This, although it is a hard thing to do, must be separated from the band of really statesmanlike and kingly men, if we are to get a clear view of the object of our search.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ἀλλὰ μὴν τοῦτό γε οὐκ ἀνετέον.
Y. Soc.But we certainly cannot give that up.
ΞΕ.Οὔκουν δὴ κατά γε τὴν ἐμήν. καί μοι φράζε τόδε.
Str.No, of course not. I agree to that. And now please answer a question.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τὸ ποῖον;
Y. Soc.What is it?
291d ΞΕ.Ἆρ' οὐ μοναρχία τῶν πολιτικῶν ἡμῖν ἀρχῶν ἐστι μία;
Str.We agree that monarchy is one of the forms of government, do we not?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ναί.
Y. Soc.Yes.
ΞΕ.Καὶ μετὰ μοναρχίαν εἴποι τις ἂν οἶμαι τὴν ὑπὸ τῶν
ὀλίγων δυναστείαν.
Str.And after monarchy one might, I should say, mention the rule of the few.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς δ' οὔ;
Y. Soc.Yes, of course.
ΞΕ.Τρίτον δὲ σχῆμα πολιτείας οὐχ ἡ τοῦ πλήθους ἀρχή,
δημοκρατία τοὔνομα κληθεῖσα;
Str.And a third form of government is the rule of the multitude, called democracy, is it not?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Καὶ πάνυ γε.
Y. Soc.Yes, certainly.
ΞΕ.Τρεῖς δ' οὖσαι μῶν οὐ πέντε τρόπον τινὰ γίγνονται,
δύ' ἐξ ἑαυτῶν ἄλλα πρὸς αὑταῖς ὀνόματα τίκτουσαι;
Str.Do not these three become after a fashion five, producing out of themselves two additional names?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ποῖα δή;
Y. Soc.What names?
291e ΞΕ.Πρὸς τὸ βίαιόν που καὶ ἑκούσιον ἀποσκοποῦντες
νῦν καὶ πενίαν καὶ πλοῦτον καὶ νόμον καὶ ἀνομίαν ἐν αὐταῖς
γιγνόμενα διπλῆν ἑκατέραν τοῖν δυοῖν διαιροῦντες μοναρχίαν
μὲν προσαγορεύουσιν ὡς δύο παρεχομένην εἴδη δυοῖν ὀνόμασι,
τυραννίδι, τὸ δὲ βασιλικῇ.
Str.People nowadays are likely to take into consideration enforced subjection and voluntary obedience, poverty and wealth, law and lawlessness as they occur in governments, and so they divide two of the forms we mentioned, giving to the two aspects of monarchy the two names tyranny and royalty.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τί μήν;
Y. Soc.Certainly.
ΞΕ.Τὴν δὲ ὑπ' ὀλίγων γε ἑκάστοτε κρατηθεῖσαν πόλιν
ἀριστοκρατίᾳ καὶ ὀλιγαρχίᾳ.
Str.And the state that is ruled by the few is called, as the case may be, aristocracy or oligarchy.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Καὶ πάνυ γε.
Y. Soc.To be sure.
ΞΕ.Δημοκρατίας γε μήν, ἐάντ' οὖν βιαίως ἐάντε ἑκουσίως
292a τῶν τὰς οὐσίας ἐχόντων τὸ πλῆθος ἄρχῃ, καὶ ἐάντε τοὺς
νόμους ἀκριβῶς φυλάττον ἐάντε μή, πάντως τοὔνομα οὐδεὶς
αὐτῆς εἴωθε μεταλλάττειν.
Str.In the case of democracy, however, whether the multitude rule those who have property by violence or with their willing consent, and whether the laws are carefully observed or not, no one ever habitually changes the name.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ἀληθῆ.
Y. Soc.True.
ΞΕ.Τί οὖν; οἰόμεθά τινα τούτων τῶν πολιτειῶν ὀρθὴν
εἶναι τούτοις τοῖς ὅροις ὁρισθεῖσαν, ἑνὶ καὶ ὀλίγοις καὶ
πολλοῖς, καὶ πλούτῳ καὶ πενίᾳ, καὶ τῷ βιαίῳ καὶ ἑκουσίῳ, καὶ
μετὰ γραμμάτων καὶ ἄνευ νόμων συμβαίνουσαν γίγνεσθαι;
Str.Now then, do we believe that any of these forms of government which are defined by the distinctions between the one, the few, and the many, or wealth and poverty, or violence and willingness, or written constitution and absence of laws, is a right one?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τί γὰρ δὴ καὶ κωλύει;
Y. Soc.I don’t see why not.
292b ΞΕ.Σκόπει δὴ σαφέστερον τῇδε ἑπόμενος.
Str.Look a bit more closely along the line I am going to point out.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῇ;
Y. Soc.What is it?
ΞΕ.Τῷ ῥηθέντι κατὰ πρώτας πότερον ἐμμενοῦμεν ἢ
διαφωνήσομεν;
Str.Shall we abide by what we said in the beginning, or dissent from it?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τῷ δὴ ποίῳ λέγεις;
Y. Soc.To what do you refer?
ΞΕ.Τὴν βασιλικὴν ἀρχὴν τῶν ἐπιστημῶν εἶναί τινα
ἔφαμεν, οἶμαι.
Str.We said, I believe, that royal power was one of the sciences.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ναί.
Y. Soc.Yes.
ΞΕ.Καὶ τούτων γε οὐχ ἁπασῶν, ἀλλὰ κριτικὴν δήπου
τινὰ καὶ ἐπιστατικὴν ἐκ τῶν ἄλλων προειλόμεθα.
Str.And not only a science, but we selected it from the rest as a science of judgement and command.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ναί.
Y. Soc.Yes.
ΞΕ.Κἀκ τῆς ἐπιστατικῆς τὴν μὲν ἐπ' ἀψύχοις ἔργοις,
292c τὴν δ' ἐπὶ ζῴοις· καὶ κατὰ τοῦτον δὴ τὸν τρόπον μερίζοντες
δεῦρ' ἀεὶ προεληλύθαμεν, ἐπιστήμης οὐκ ἐπιλανθανόμενοι, τὸ
δ' ἥτις οὐχ ἱκανῶς πω δυνάμενοι διακριβώσασθαι.
Str.And from the science of command we distinguished one part which rules inanimate works, and one which rules living beings; and so we have gone on dividing in this manner to the present moment, never forgetting that it is a science, but as yet unable to state with sufficient accuracy what science it is.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Λέγεις ὀρθῶς.
Y. Soc.You are right.
ΞΕ.Τοῦτ' αὐτὸ τοίνυν ἆρ' ἐννοοῦμεν, ὅτι τὸν ὅρον
οὐκ ὀλίγους οὐδὲ πολλούς, οὐδὲ τὸ ἑκούσιον οὐδὲ τὸ
ἀκούσιον, οὐδὲ πενίαν οὐδὲ πλοῦτον γίγνεσθαι περὶ αὐτῶν
χρεών, ἀλλά τινα ἐπιστήμην, εἴπερ ἀκολουθήσομεν τοῖς
πρόσθεν;
Str.Then is this our understanding, that the distinction between forms of government ought not to be found in the words few or many, or voluntary or unwilling, or wealth or poverty, but some science must be the distinguishing feature, if we are to be consistent with our previous statement?
292d ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ἀλλὰ μὴν τοῦτό γε ἀδύνατον μὴ ποιεῖν.
Y. Soc.Yes, indeed; it cannot be otherwise.
ΞΕ.Ἐξ ἀνάγκης δὴ νῦν τοῦτο οὕτω σκεπτέον, ἐν τίνι
ποτὲ τούτων ἐπιστήμη συμβαίνει γίγνεσθαι περὶ ἀνθρώπων
ἀρχῆς, σχεδὸν τῆς χαλεπωτάτης καὶ μεγίστης κτήσασθαι.
δεῖ γὰρ ἰδεῖν αὐτήν, ἵνα θεασώμεθα τίνας ἀφαιρετέον ἀπὸ
τοῦ φρονίμου βασιλέως, οἳ προσποιοῦνται μὲν εἶναι πολιτικοὶ
καὶ πείθουσι πολλούς, εἰσὶ δὲ οὐδαμῶς.
Str.Necessarily, then, our present duty is to inquire in which, if any, of these forms of government is engendered the science of ruling men, which is about the greatest of sciences and the most difficult to acquire. We must discover that in order to see what men are to be distinguished from the wise king—men, I mean, who pretend to be, and make many believe that they are, statesmen, but are really not such at all.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Δεῖ γὰρ δὴ ποιεῖν τοῦτο, ὡς ὁ λόγος ἡμῖν
προείρηκεν.
Y. Soc.Yes, we must do this; that is implied in what was said before.
292e ΞΕ.Μῶν οὖν δοκεῖ πλῆθός γε ἐν πόλει ταύτην τὴν
ἐπιστήμην δυνατὸν εἶναι κτήσασθαι;
Str.Does it seem at all possible that a multitude in a state could acquire this science?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Καὶ πῶς;
Y. Soc.By no means.
ΞΕ.Ἀλλ' ἆρα ἐν χιλιάνδρῳ πόλει δυνατὸν ἑκατόν τινας
ἢ καὶ πεντήκοντα αὐτὴν ἱκανῶς κτήσασθαι;
Str.But in a state of one thousand men could perhaps a hundred or as many as fifty acquire it adequately?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ῥᾴστη μεντἂν οὕτω γ' εἴη πασῶν τῶν τεχνῶν·
ἴσμεν γὰρ ὅτι χιλίων ἀνδρῶν ἄκροι πεττευταὶ τοσοῦτοι
πρὸς τοὺς ἐν τοῖς ἄλλοις Ἕλλησιν οὐκ ἂν γένοιντό ποτε,
μή τι δὴ βασιλῆς γε. δεῖ γὰρ δὴ τόν γε τὴν βασιλικὴν
ἔχοντα ἐπιστήμην, ἄν τ' ἄρχῃ καὶ ἐὰν μή, κατὰ τὸν ἔμπροσθε
293a λόγον ὅμως βασιλικὸν προσαγορεύεσθαι.
Y. Soc.No, in that case this would be the easiest of all the arts; for we know that a city of a thousand men could never produce that number of finished draught-players in comparison with those in other Greek cities, still less so many kings. For the man who possesses the kingly science, whether he rule or not, must be called kingly, as our previous argument showed.
ΞΕ.Καλῶς ἀπεμνημόνευσας. ἑπόμενον δὲ οἶμαι τούτῳ
τὴν μὲν ὀρθὴν ἀρχὴν περὶ ἕνα τινὰ καὶ δύο καὶ παντάπασιν
ὀλίγους δεῖ ζητεῖν, ὅταν ὀρθὴ γίγνηται.
Str.You did well to remind me. And in agreement with this, we must, I suppose, look for the right kind of rule in one or two or very few men, whenever such right rule occurs.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τί μήν;
Y. Soc.Certainly.
ΞΕ.Τούτους δέ γε, ἐάντε ἑκόντων ἄντ' ἀκόντων ἄρχωσιν,
ἐάντε κατὰ γράμματα ἐάντε ἄνευ γραμμάτων, καὶ
ἐὰν πλουτοῦντες ἢ πενόμενοι, νομιστέον, ὥσπερ νῦν ἡγούμεθα,
κατὰ τέχνην ἡντινοῦν ἀρχὴν ἄρχοντας. τοὺς ἰατροὺς
293b δὲ οὐχ ἥκιστα νενομίκαμεν, ἐάντε ἑκόντας ἐάντε ἄκοντας
ἡμᾶς ἰῶνται, τέμνοντες ἢ κάοντες ἤ τινα ἄλλην ἀλγηδόνα
προσάπτοντες, καὶ ἐὰν κατὰ γράμματα ἢ χωρὶς γραμμάτων,
καὶ ἐὰν πένητες ὄντες ἢ πλούσιοι, πάντως οὐδὲν ἧττον
ἰατρούς φαμεν, ἕωσπερ ἂν ἐπιστατοῦντες τέχνῃ, καθαίροντες
εἴτε ἄλλως ἰσχναίνοντες εἴτε καὶ αὐξάνοντες, ἂν μόνον ἐπ'
ἀγαθῷ τῷ τῶν σωμάτων, βελτίω ποιοῦντες ἐκ χειρόνων,
293c σῴζωσιν οἱ θεραπεύοντες ἕκαστοι τὰ θεραπευόμενα· ταύτῃ
θήσομεν, ὡς οἶμαι, καὶ οὐκ ἄλλῃ, τοῦτον ὅρον ὀρθὸν εἶναι
μόνον ἰατρικῆς καὶ ἄλλης ἡστινοσοῦν ἀρχῆς.
Str.And these men, whether they rule over willing or unwilling subjects, with or without written laws, and whether they are rich or poor, must, according to our present opinion, be supposed to exercise their rule in accordance with some art or science. And physicians offer a particularly good example of this point of view. Whether they cure us against our will or with our will, by cutting us or burning us or causing us pain in any other way, and whether they do it by written rules or without them, and whether they are rich or poor, we call them physicians just the same, so long as they exercise authority by art or science, purging us or reducing us in some other way, or even adding to our weight, provided only that they who treat their patients treat them for the benefit of their health and preserve them by making them better than they were. In this way and no other, in my opinion, shall we determine this to be the only right definition of the rule of the physician or of any other rule whatsoever.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Κομιδῇ μὲν οὖν.
Y. Soc.Very true.
ΞΕ.Ἀναγκαῖον δὴ καὶ πολιτειῶν, ὡς ἔοικε, ταύτην ὀρθὴν
διαφερόντως εἶναι καὶ μόνην πολιτείαν, ἐν ᾗ τις ἂν εὑρίσκοι
τοὺς ἄρχοντας ἀληθῶς ἐπιστήμονας καὶ οὐ δοκοῦντας μόνον,
ἐάντε κατὰ νόμους ἐάντε ἄνευ νόμων ἄρχωσι, καὶ ἑκόντων ἢ
293d ἀκόντων, καὶ πενόμενοι ἢ πλουτοῦντες, τούτων ὑπολογιστέον
οὐδὲν οὐδαμῶς εἶναι κατ' οὐδεμίαν ὀρθότητα.
Str.It is, then, a necessary consequence that among forms of government that one is preeminently right and is the only real government, in which the rulers are found to be truly possessed of science, not merely to seem to possess it, whether they rule by law or without law, whether their subjects are willing or unwilling, and whether they themselves are rich or poor—none of these things can be at all taken into account on any right method.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Καλῶς.
Y. Soc.Excellent.
ΞΕ.Καὶ ἐάντε γε ἀποκτεινύντες τινὰς ἢ καὶ ἐκβάλλοντες
καθαίρωσιν ἐπ' ἀγαθῷ τὴν πόλιν, εἴτε καὶ ἀποικίας οἷον
σμήνη μελιττῶν ἐκπέμποντές ποι σμικροτέραν ποιῶσιν, ἤ
τινας ἐπεισαγόμενοί ποθεν ἄλλους ἔξωθεν πολίτας ποιοῦντες
αὐτὴν αὔξωσιν, ἕωσπερ ἂν ἐπιστήμῃ καὶ τῷ δικαίῳ προςχρώμενοι
σῴζοντες ἐκ χείρονος βελτίω ποιῶσι κατὰ δύναμιν,
293e ταύτην τότε καὶ κατὰ τοὺς τοιούτους ὅρους ἡμῖν μόνην ὀρθὴν
πολιτείαν εἶναι ῥητέον· ὅσας δ' ἄλλας λέγομεν, οὐ γνησίας
οὐδ' ὄντως οὔσας λεκτέον, ἀλλὰ μεμιμημένας ταύτην, ἃς μὲν
ὡς εὐνόμους λέγομεν, ἐπὶ τὰ καλλίω, τὰς δὲ ἄλλας ἐπὶ τὰ
αἰσχίονα [μεμιμῆσθαι].
Str.And whether they purge the state for its good by killing or banishing some of the citizens, or make it smaller by sending out colonies somewhere, as bees swarm from the hive, or bring in citizens from elsewhere to make it larger, so long as they act in accordance with science and justice and preserve and benefit it by making it better than it was, so far as is possible, that must at that time and by such characteristics be declared to be the only right form of government. All other forms must be considered not as legitimate or really existent, but as imitating this; those states which are said to be well governed imitate it better, and the others worse.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τὰ μὲν ἄλλα, ὦ ξένε, μετρίως ἔοικεν εἰρῆσθαι·
τὸ δὲ καὶ ἄνευ νόμων δεῖν ἄρχειν χαλεπώτερον ἀκούειν ἐρρήθη.
Y. Soc.Everything else that you have said seems reasonable; but that government should be carried on without laws is a hard saying.
ΞΕ.Μικρόν γε ἔφθης με ἐρόμενος, ὦ Σώκρατες. ἔμελλον
294a γάρ σε διερωτήσειν ταῦτα πότερον ἀποδέχῃ πάντα, ἤ τι
καὶ δυσχεραίνεις τῶν λεχθέντων· νῦν δ' ἤδη φανερὸν ὅτι
τοῦτο βουλησόμεθα τὸ περὶ τῆς τῶν ἄνευ νόμων ἀρχόντων
ὀρθότητος διελθεῖν ἡμᾶς.
Str.You got ahead of me a little with your question, Socrates; for I was just going to ask whether you accepted all I have said, or were displeased with anything. But now it is clear that we shall have to discuss the question of the propriety of government without laws.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς γὰρ οὔ;
Y. Soc.Of course we shall.
ΞΕ.Τρόπον τινὰ μέντοι δῆλον ὅτι τῆς βασιλικῆς ἐστιν
ἡ νομοθετική· τὸ δ' ἄριστον οὐ τοὺς νόμους ἐστὶν ἰσχύειν
ἀλλ' ἄνδρα τὸν μετὰ φρονήσεως βασιλικόν. οἶσθ' ὅπῃ;
Str.In a sense, however, it is clear that law-making belongs to the science of kingship; but the best thing is not that the laws be in power, but that the man who is wise and of kingly nature be ruler. Do you see why?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῇ δὴ λέγεις;
Y. Soc.Why is it?
ΞΕ.Ὅτι νόμος οὐκ ἄν ποτε δύναιτο τό τε ἄριστον καὶ
294b τὸ δικαιότατον ἀκριβῶς πᾶσιν ἅμα περιλαβὼν τὸ βέλτιστον
ἐπιτάττειν· αἱ γὰρ ἀνομοιότητες τῶν τε ἀνθρώπων καὶ τῶν
πράξεων καὶ τὸ μηδέποτε μηδὲν ὡς ἔπος εἰπεῖν ἡσυχίαν
ἄγειν τῶν ἀνθρωπίνων οὐδὲν ἐῶσιν ἁπλοῦν ἐν οὐδενὶ περὶ
ἁπάντων καὶ ἐπὶ πάντα τὸν χρόνον ἀποφαίνεσθαι τέχνην
οὐδ' ἡντινοῦν. ταῦτα δὴ συγχωροῦμέν που;
Str.Because law could never, by determining exactly what is noblest and must just for one and all, enjoin upon them that which is best; for the differences of men and of actions and the fact that nothing, I may say, in human life is ever at rest, forbid any science whatsoever to promulgate any simple rule for everything and for all time. We agree to that, I suppose?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τί μήν;
Y. Soc.Yes, of course.
ΞΕ.Τὸν δέ γε νόμον ὁρῶμεν σχεδὸν ἐπ' αὐτὸ τοῦτο
294c συντείνοντα, ὥσπερ τινὰ ἄνθρωπον αὐθάδη καὶ ἀμαθῆ καὶ
μηδένα μηδὲν ἐῶντα ποιεῖν παρὰ τὴν ἑαυτοῦ τάξιν, μηδ'
ἐπερωτᾶν μηδένα, μηδ' ἄν τι νέον ἄρα τῳ συμβαίνῃ βέλτιον
παρὰ τὸν λόγον ὃν αὐτὸς ἐπέταξεν.
Str.But we see that law aims at pretty nearly this very thing, like a stubborn and ignorant man who allows no one to do anything contrary to his command, or even to ask a question, not even if something new occurs to some one, which is better than the rule he has himself ordained.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ἀληθῆ· ποιεῖ γὰρ ἀτεχνῶς καθάπερ εἴρηκας
νῦν ὁ νόμος ἡμῖν ἑκάστοις.
Y. Soc.True; the law treats each and all of us exactly as you describe.
ΞΕ.Οὐκοῦν ἀδύνατον εὖ ἔχειν πρὸς τὰ μηδέποτε ἁπλᾶ
τὸ διὰ παντὸς γιγνόμενον ἁπλοῦν;
Str.So that which is persistently simple is inapplicable to things which are never simple?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Κινδυνεύει.
Y. Soc.I suppose so.
ΞΕ.Διὰ τί δή ποτ' οὖν ἀναγκαῖον νομοθετεῖν, ἐπειδήπερ
294d οὐκ ὀρθότατον ὁ νόμος; ἀνευρετέον τούτου τὴν αἰτίαν.
Str.Why in the world, then, is it necessary to make laws, since law is not the most perfect right? We must ask the reason for this.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τί μήν;
Y. Soc.Yes, of course.
ΞΕ.Οὐκοῦν καὶ παρ' ὑμῖν εἰσί τινες οἷαι καὶ ἐν ἄλλαις
πόλεσιν ἁθρόων ἀνθρώπων ἀσκήσεις, εἴτε πρὸς δρόμον εἴτε
πρὸς ἄλλο τι, φιλονικίας ἕνεκα;
Str.Well, there are here at Athens, as in other cities, classes for practice in athletics to prepare for contests in running or the like, are there not?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Καὶ πάνυ γε πολλαί.
Y. Soc.Yes, a great many of them.
ΞΕ.Φέρε νῦν ἀναλάβωμεν πάλιν μνήμῃ τὰς τῶν τέχνῃ
γυμναζόντων ἐπιτάξεις ἐν ταῖς τοιαύταις ἀρχαῖς.
Str.Now let us recall to mind the orders given by the professional trainers when they are in charge of such classes.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τὸ ποῖον;
Y. Soc.What do you mean?
ΞΕ.Ὅτι λεπτουργεῖν οὐκ ἐγχωρεῖν ἡγοῦνται καθ' ἕνα
ἕκαστον, τῷ σώματι τὸ προσῆκον ἑκάστῳ προστάττοντες,
294e ἀλλὰ παχύτερον οἴονται δεῖν ὡς ἐπὶ τὸ πολὺ καὶ ἐπὶ πολλοὺς
τὴν τοῦ λυσιτελοῦντος τοῖς σώμασι ποιεῖσθαι τάξιν.
Str.They think they cannot go into details in individual cases and order what is best for each person’s physique; they think they must employ a rougher method and give a general rule which will be good for the physique of the majority.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Καλῶς.
Y. Soc.Good.
ΞΕ.Διὸ δή γε καὶ ἴσους πόνους νῦν διδόντες ἁθρόοις
ἅμα μὲν ἐξορμῶσιν, ἅμα δὲ καὶ καταπαύουσι δρόμου καὶ
πάλης καὶ πάντων τῶν κατὰ τὰ σώματα πόνων.
Str.And therefore they nowadays assign equal exercise to whole classes; they make them begin at the same time and stop at the same time, whether they run or wrestle or practise any other kind of bodily exercise.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ἔστι ταῦτα.
Y. Soc.That is true.
ΞΕ.Καὶ τὸν νομοθέτην τοίνυν ἡγώμεθα, τὸν ταῖσιν
ἀγέλαις ἐπιστατήσοντα τοῦ δικαίου πέρι καὶ τῶν πρὸς ἀλλήλους
295a συμβολαίων, μή ποθ' ἱκανὸν γενήσεσθαι πᾶσιν ἁθρόοις
προστάττοντα ἀκριβῶς ἑνὶ ἑκάστῳ τὸ προσῆκον ἀποδιδόναι.
Str.And so we must believe that the law-maker who is to watch over the herds and maintain justice and the obligation of contracts, will never be able by making laws for all collectively, to provide exactly that which is proper for each individual.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τὸ γοῦν εἰκός.
Y. Soc.Probably not, at any rate.
ΞΕ.Ἀλλὰ τὸ τοῖς πολλοῖς γε οἶμαι καὶ ὡς ἐπὶ τὸ πολὺ
καί πως οὑτωσὶ παχυτέρως ἑκάστοις τὸν νόμον θήσει, καὶ ἐν
γράμμασιν ἀποδιδοὺς καὶ ἐν ἀγραμμάτοις, πατρίοις δὲ ἔθεσι
νομοθετῶν.
Str.But he will, I fancy, legislate for the majority and in a general way only roughly for individuals, whether he issues written laws or his enactments follow the unwritten traditional customs.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ὀρθῶς.
Y. Soc.Quite right.
ΞΕ.Ὀρθῶς μέντοι. πῶς γὰρ ἄν τις ἱκανὸς γένοιτ' ἄν
295b ποτε, ὦ Σώκρατες, ὥστε διὰ βίου ἀεὶ παρακαθήμενος ἑκάστῳ
δι' ἀκριβείας προστάττειν τὸ προσῆκον; ἐπεὶ τοῦτ' ἂν δυνατὸς
ὤν, ὡς οἶμαι, τῶν τὴν βασιλικὴν ὁστισοῦν ὄντως ἐπιστήμην
εἰληφότων σχολῇ ποτ' ἂν ἑαυτῷ θεῖτ' ἐμποδίσματα γράφων
τοὺς λεχθέντας τούτους νόμους.
Str.Yes, quite right. For how could anyone, Socrates, sit beside each person all his life and tell him exactly what is proper for him to do? Certainly anyone who really possessed the kingly science, if he were able to do this, would hardly, I imagine, ever put obstacles in his own way by writing what we call laws.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ἐκ τῶν νῦν γοῦν, ὦ ξένε, εἰρημένων.
Y. Soc.No, at least not according to what has just been said.
ΞΕ.Μᾶλλον δέ γε, ὦ βέλτιστε, ἐκ τῶν μελλόντων
ῥηθήσεσθαι.
Str.Or rather, my friend, not according to what is going to be said.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τίνων δή;
Y. Soc.What is that?
ΞΕ.Τῶν τοιῶνδε. εἴπωμεν γὰρ δὴ πρός γε ἡμᾶς αὐτοὺς
295c ἰατρὸν μέλλοντα ἢ καί τινα γυμναστικὸν ἀποδημεῖν καὶ
ἀπέσεσθαι τῶν θεραπευομένων συχνόν, ὡς οἴοιτο, χρόνον,
μὴ μνημονεύσειν οἰηθέντα τὰ προσταχθέντα τοὺς γυμναζομένους
ἢ τοὺς κάμνοντας, ὑπομνήματα γράφειν ἂν ἐθέλειν
αὐτοῖς, ἢ πῶς;
Str.Something of this sort: Let us suppose that a physician or a gymnastic trainer is going away and expects to be a long time absent from his patients or pupils; if he thinks they will not remember his instructions, he would want to write them down, would he not?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Οὕτως.
Y. Soc.Yes.
ΞΕ.Τί δ' εἰ παρὰ δόξαν ἐλάττω χρόνον ἀποδημήσας
ἔλθοι πάλιν; ἆρ' οὐκ ἂν παρ' ἐκεῖνα τὰ γράμματα τολμήσειεν
ἄλλ' ὑποθέσθαι, συμβαινόντων ἄλλων βελτιόνων τοῖς κάμνουσι
295d διὰ πνεύματα ἤ τι καὶ ἄλλο παρὰ τὴν ἐλπίδα τῶν ἐκ
Διὸς ἑτέρως πως τῶν εἰωθότων γενόμενα, καρτερῶν δ' ἂν
ἡγοῖτο δεῖν μὴ ἐκβαίνειν τἀρχαῖά ποτε νομοθετηθέντα
μήτε αὐτὸν προστάττοντα ἄλλα μήτε τὸν κάμνοντα ἕτερα
τολμῶντα παρὰ τὰ γραφέντα δρᾶν, ὡς ταῦτα ὄντα ἰατρικὰ
καὶ ὑγιεινά, τὰ δὲ ἑτέρως γιγνόμενα νοσώδη τε καὶ οὐκ
ἔντεχνα· ἢ πᾶν τὸ τοιοῦτον ἔν γε ἐπιστήμῃ συμβαῖνον καὶ
295e ἀληθεῖ τέχνῃ περὶ ἅπαντα παντάπασι γέλως ἂν ὁ μέγιστος
γίγνοιτο τῶν τοιούτων νομοθετημάτων;
Str.What if he should come back again after a briefer absence than he expected? Would he not venture to substitute other rules for those written instructions if others happened to be better for his patients, because the winds or something else had, by act of God, changed unexpectedly from their usual course? Would he persist in the opinion that no one must transgress the old laws, neither he himself by enacting new ones nor his patient by venturing to do anything contrary to the written rules, under the conviction that these laws were medicinal and healthful and anything else was unhealthful and unscientific? If anything of that sort occurred in the realm of science and true art, would not any such regulations on any subject assuredly arouse the greatest ridicule?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Παντάπασι μὲν οὖν.
Y. Soc.Most assuredly.
ΞΕ.Τῷ δὲ τὰ δίκαια δὴ καὶ ἄδικα καὶ καλὰ καὶ αἰσχρὰ
καὶ ἀγαθὰ καὶ κακὰ γράψαντι καὶ ἄγραφα νομοθετήσαντι
ταῖς τῶν ἀνθρώπων ἀγέλαις, ὁπόσαι κατὰ πόλιν ἐν ἑκάσταις
νομεύονται κατὰ τοὺς τῶν γραψάντων νόμους, ἂν ὁ μετὰ
τέχνης γράψας ἤ τις ἕτερος ὅμοιος ἀφίκηται, μὴ ἐξέστω δὴ
296a παρὰ ταῦτα ἕτερα προστάττειν; ἢ καὶ τοῦτο τὸ ἀπόρρημα
οὐδὲν ἧττον ἂν ἐκείνου τῇ ἀληθείᾳ γελοῖον φαίνοιτο;
Str.But he who has made written or unwritten laws about the just and unjust, the honorable and disgraceful, the good and the bad for the herds of men that are tended in their several cities in accordance with the laws of the law-makers, is not to be permitted to give other laws contrary to those, if the scientific law-maker, or another like him, should come! Would not such a prohibition appear in truth as ridiculous as the other?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τί μήν;
Y. Soc.It certainly would.
ΞΕ.Οἶσθ' οὖν ἐπὶ τῷ τοιούτῳ λόγον τὸν παρὰ τῶν
πολλῶν λεγόμενον;
Str.Do you know what people in general say about such a case?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Οὐκ ἐννοῶ νῦν γ' οὕτως.
Y. Soc.I don’t recall it just now off-hand.
ΞΕ.Καὶ μὴν εὐπρεπής. φασὶ γὰρ δὴ δεῖν, εἴ τις
γιγνώσκει παρὰ τοὺς τῶν ἔμπροσθεν βελτίους νόμους, νομοθετεῖν
τὴν ἑαυτοῦ πόλιν ἕκαστον πείσαντα, ἄλλως δὲ μή.
Str.Yes, it is very plausible; for they say that if anyone has anything better than the old laws to offer, he must first persuade the state, and then he may make his laws, but not otherwise.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τί οὖν; οὐκ ὀρθῶς;
Y. Soc.And is that not right?
296b ΞΕ.Ἴσως. ἂν δ' οὖν μὴ πείθων τις βιάζηται τὸ βέλτιον,
ἀπόκριναι, τί τοὔνομα τῆς βίας ἔσται; μὴ μέντοι πω,
περὶ δὲ τῶν ἔμπροσθεν πρότερον.
Str.Perhaps. But suppose a man does not use persuasion, but makes an improvement by force. What is this force to be called? Answer me—or, no, not yet; first answer in reference to what we were talking of before.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ποῖον δὴ λέγεις;
Y. Soc.What do you mean?
ΞΕ.Ἄν τις ἄρα μὴ πείθων τὸν ἰατρευόμενον, ἔχων δὲ
ὀρθῶς τὴν τέχνην, παρὰ τὰ γεγραμμένα τὸ βέλτιον ἀναγκάζῃ
δρᾶν παῖδα ἤ τινα ἄνδρα ἢ καὶ γυναῖκα, τί τοὔνομα τῆς
βίας ἔσται ταύτης; ἆρ' οὐ πᾶν μᾶλλον ἢ τὸ παρὰ τὴν τέχνην
λεγόμενον ἁμάρτημα τὸ νοσῶδες; καὶ πάντα ὀρθῶς
296c εἰπεῖν ἔστι πρότερον τῷ βιασθέντι περὶ τὸ τοιοῦτον πλὴν
ὅτι νοσώδη καὶ ἄτεχνα πέπονθεν ὑπὸ τῶν βιασαμένων ἰατρῶν;
Str.Suppose a physician who has right knowledge of his profession does not persuade, but forces, his patient, whether man, woman, or child, to do the better thing, though it be contrary to the written precepts, what will such violence be called? The last name in the world to call it would be unscientific and baneful error, as the phrase is, would it not? And the patient so forced might rightly say anything else rather than that he had been treated in a baneful or unscientific way by the physicians who used force upon him.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ἀληθέστατα λέγεις.
Y. Soc.Very true.
ΞΕ.Τί δὲ ἡμῖν δὴ τὸ παρὰ τὴν πολιτικὴν τέχνην ἁμάρτημα
λεγόμενόν ἐστιν; ἆρ' οὐ τὸ αἰσχρὸν καὶ [τὸ] κακὸν
καὶ ἄδικον;
Str.But what can we call the unscientific error in the field of statesmanship? Is it not baseness and evil and injustice?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Παντάπασί γε.
Y. Soc.Certainly.
ΞΕ.Τῶν δὴ βιασθέντων παρὰ τὰ γεγραμμένα καὶ πάτρια
δρᾶν ἕτερα δικαιότερα καὶ ἀμείνω καὶ καλλίω τῶν ἔμπροσθεν,
296d φέρε, τὸν τῶν τοιούτων αὖ ψόγον περὶ τῆς τοιαύτης βίας,
ἆρ', εἰ μέλλει μὴ καταγελαστότατος εἶναι πάντων, πάντ'
αὐτῷ μᾶλλον λεκτέον ἑκάστοτε πλὴν ὡς αἰσχρὰ καὶ ἄδικα
καὶ κακὰ πεπόνθασιν οἱ βιασθέντες ὑπὸ τῶν βιασαμένων;
Str.Now if people are forced, contrary to the written laws and inherited traditions, to do what is juster and nobler and better than what they did before, tell me, will not anyone who blames such use of force, unless he is to be most utterly ridiculous, always say anything or everything rather than that those who have been so forced have suffered base and unjust and evil treatment at the hands of those who forced them?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ἀληθέστατα λέγεις.
Y. Soc.Very true.
ΞΕ.Ἀλλ' ἆρα ἐὰν μὲν πλούσιος ὁ βιασάμενος ᾖ, δίκαια,
ἂν δ' ἄρα πένης, ἄδικα τὰ βιασθέντα ἐστίν; ἢ κἂν πείσας
κἂν μὴ πείσας τις, πλούσιος ἢ πένης, ἢ κατὰ γράμματα ἢ
296e παρὰ γράμματα, δρᾷ [μὴ σύμφορα ἢ] σύμφορα, τοῦτον δεῖ
καὶ περὶ ταῦτα τὸν ὅρον εἶναι τόν γε ἀληθινώτατον ὀρθῆς
πόλεως διοικήσεως, ὃν ὁ σοφὸς καὶ ἀγαθὸς ἀνὴρ διοικήσει
τὸ τῶν ἀρχομένων; ὥσπερ ὁ κυβερνήτης τὸ τῆς νεὼς καὶ
297a ναυτῶν ἀεὶ συμφέρον παραφυλάττων, οὐ γράμματα τιθεὶς
ἀλλὰ τὴν τέχνην νόμον παρεχόμενος, σῴζει τοὺς συνναύτας,
οὕτω καὶ κατὰ τὸν αὐτὸν τρόπον τοῦτον παρὰ τῶν οὕτως
ἄρχειν δυναμένων ὀρθὴ γίγνοιτ' ἂν πολιτεία, τὴν τῆς τέχνης
ῥώμην τῶν νόμων παρεχομένων κρείττω; καὶ πάντα ποιοῦσι
τοῖς ἔμφροσιν ἄρχουσιν οὐκ ἔστιν ἁμάρτημα, μέχριπερ ἂν
297b ἓν μέγα φυλάττωσι, τὸ μετὰ νοῦ καὶ τέχνης δικαιότατον ἀεὶ
διανέμοντες τοῖς ἐν τῇ πόλει σῴζειν τε αὐτοὺς οἷοί τε ὦσιν
καὶ ἀμείνους ἐκ χειρόνων ἀποτελεῖν κατὰ τὸ δυνατόν;
Str.But would the violence be just if he who uses it is rich, and unjust if he is poor? Or if a man, whether rich or poor, by persuasion or by other means, in accordance with written laws or contrary to them, does what is for the good of the people, must not this be the truest criterion of right government, in accordance with which the wise and good man will govern the affairs of his subjects?
Just as the captain of a ship keeps watch for what is at any moment for the good of the vessel and the sailors, not by writing rules, but by making his science his law, and thus preserves his fellow voyagers, so may not a right government be established in the same way by men who could rule by this principle, making science more powerful than the laws? And whatever the wise rulers do, they can commit no error, so long as they maintain one great principle and by always dispensing absolute justice to them with wisdom and science are able to preserve the citizens and make them better than they were, so far as that is possible. Is not this true?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Οὐκ ἔστ' ἀντειπεῖν παρά γε ἃ νῦν εἴρηται.
Y. Soc.There is no denying the truth of what you have just said.
ΞΕ.Καὶ μὴν πρὸς ἐκεῖνα οὐδὲ ἀντιρρητέον.
Str.And those other statements cannot be denied, either.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τὰ ποῖα εἶπες;
Y. Soc.What statements?
ΞΕ.Ὡς οὐκ ἄν ποτε πλῆθος οὐδ' ὡντινωνοῦν τὴν τοιαύτην
λαβὸν ἐπιστήμην οἷόν τ' ἂν γένοιτο μετὰ νοῦ διοικεῖν
297c πόλιν, ἀλλὰ περὶ σμικρόν τι καὶ ὀλίγον καὶ τὸ ἕν ἐστι ζητητέον
τὴν μίαν ἐκείνην πολιτείαν τὴν ὀρθήν, τὰς δ' ἄλλας
μιμήματα θετέον, ὥσπερ καὶ ὀλίγον πρότερον ἐρρήθη, τὰς μὲν
ἐπὶ τὰ καλλίονα, τὰς δ' ἐπὶ τὰ αἰσχίω μιμουμένας ταύτην.
Str.That no great number of men, whoever they may be, could ever acquire political science and be able to administer a state with wisdom, but our one right form of government must be sought in some small number or one person, and all other forms are merely, as we said before, more or less successful imitations of that.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς τί τοῦτ' εἴρηκας; οὐδὲ γὰρ ἄρτι δῆθεν
κατέμαθον τὸ περὶ τῶν μιμημάτων.
Y. Soc.What do you mean by that? I did not understand about the imitations a little while ago, either.
ΞΕ.Καὶ μὴν οὐ φαῦλόν γε, ἂν κινήσας τις τοῦτον τὸν
λόγον αὐτοῦ καταβάλῃ καὶ μὴ διελθὼν ἐνδείξηται τὸ νῦν
297d γιγνόμενον ἁμάρτημα περὶ αὐτό.
Str.And yet it is quite a serious matter if after stirring up this question we drop it and do not go on and show the error which is committed in relation to it nowadays.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ποῖον δή;
Y. Soc.What is the error?
ΞΕ.Τοιόνδε τι δεῖ γε ζητεῖν, οὐ πάνυ σύνηθες οὐδὲ ῥᾴδιον
ἰδεῖν· ὅμως μὴν πειρώμεθα λαβεῖν αὐτό. φέρε γάρ· ὀρθῆς ἡμῖν
μόνης οὔσης ταύτης τῆς πολιτείας ἣν εἰρήκαμεν, οἶσθ' ὅτι τὰς
ἄλλας δεῖ τοῖς ταύτης συγγράμμασι χρωμένας οὕτω σῴζεσθαι,
δρώσας τὸ νῦν ἐπαινούμενον, καίπερ οὐκ ὀρθότατον ὄν;
Str.I will tell you what we must investigate; it is not at all familiar or easy to see, but let us try to grasp it nevertheless. Tell me this: Assuming that the form of government we have described is the only right form, don’t you see that the other forms must employ its written laws if they are to be preserved by doing that which is approved of nowadays, although it is not perfectly right?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τὸ ποῖον;
Y. Soc.What is not perfectly right?
297e ΞΕ.Τὸ παρὰ τοὺς νόμους μηδὲν μηδένα τολμᾶν ποιεῖν
τῶν ἐν τῇ πόλει, τὸν τολμῶντα δὲ θανάτῳ ζημιοῦσθαι καὶ
πᾶσι τοῖς ἐσχάτοις. καὶ τοῦτ' ἔστιν ὀρθότατα καὶ κάλλιστ'
ἔχον ὡς δεύτερον, ἐπειδὰν τὸ πρῶτόν τις μεταθῇ τὸ νυνδὴ
ῥηθέν· ᾧ δὲ τρόπῳ γεγονός ἐστι τοῦτο ὃ δὴ δεύτερον ἐφήσαμεν,
διαπερανώμεθα. ἦ γάρ;
Str.That no citizen shall dare to do anything contrary to the laws, and that he who does shall be punished by death and the most extreme penalties. And this is perfectly right and good as a second choice, as soon as you depart from the first form of which we were just speaking. Now let us tell in some detail how this which we called the second choice comes about. Shall we do so?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πάνυ μὲν οὖν.
Y. Soc.By all means.
ΞΕ.Εἰς δὴ τὰς εἰκόνας ἐπανίωμεν πάλιν, αἷς ἀναγκαῖον
ἀπεικάζειν ἀεὶ τοὺς βασιλικοὺς ἄρχοντας.
Str.Let us return once more to the images which we always have to use in portraying kingly rulers.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ποίας;
Y. Soc.What images?
ΞΕ.Τὸν γενναῖον κυβερνήτην καὶ τὸν ἑτέρων πολλῶν
ἀντάξιον ἰατρόν. κατίδωμεν γὰρ δή τι σχῆμα ἐν τούτοις
αὐτοῖς πλασάμενοι.
Str.The noble captain of a ship and the physician who is worth as much as many others. Let us make a simile of them and use it to help us to discover something.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ποῖόν τι;
Y. Soc.What is your simile?
298a ΞΕ.Τοιόνδε· οἷον εἰ πάντες περὶ αὐτῶν διανοηθεῖμεν
ὅτι δεινότατα ὑπ' αὐτῶν πάσχομεν. ὃν μὲν γὰρ ἂν ἐθελήσωσιν
ἡμῶν τούτων ἑκάτεροι σῴζειν, ὁμοίως δὴ σῴζουσιν, ὃν
δ' ἂν λωβᾶσθαι βουληθῶσιν, λωβῶνται τέμνοντες καὶ κάοντες
καὶ προστάττοντες ἀναλώματα φέρειν παρ' ἑαυτοὺς οἷον
φόρους, ὧν σμικρὰ μὲν εἰς τὸν κάμνοντα καὶ οὐδὲν ἀναλίσκουσιν,
τοῖς δ' ἄλλοις αὐτοί τε καὶ οἱ οἰκέται χρῶνται· καὶ
298b δὴ καὶ τελευτῶντες ἢ παρὰ συγγενῶν ἢ παρά τινων ἐχθρῶν
τοῦ κάμνοντος χρήματα μισθὸν λαμβάνοντες ἀποκτεινύασιν.
οἵ τ' αὖ κυβερνῆται μυρία ἕτερα τοιαῦτα ἐργάζονται, καταλείποντές
τε ἔκ τινος ἐπιβουλῆς ἐν ταῖς ἀναγωγαῖς ἐρήμους,
καὶ σφάλματα ποιοῦντες ἐν τοῖς πελάγεσιν ἐκβάλλουσιν εἰς
τὴν θάλατταν, καὶ ἕτερα κακουργοῦσιν. εἰ δὴ ταῦτα διανοηθέντες
βουλευσαίμεθα περὶ αὐτῶν βουλήν τινα, τούτων
298c τῶν τεχνῶν μηκέτι ἐπιτρέπειν ἄρχειν αὐτοκράτορι μηδετέρᾳ
μήτ' οὖν δούλων μήτ' ἐλευθέρων, συλλέξαι δ' ἐκκλησίαν
ἡμῶν αὐτῶν, ἢ σύμπαντα τὸν δῆμον ἢ τοὺς πλουσίους μόνον,
ἐξεῖναι δὲ καὶ ἰδιωτῶν καὶ τῶν ἄλλων δημιουργῶν περί τε
πλοῦ καὶ περὶ νόσων γνώμην ξυμβαλέσθαι καθ' ὅτι χρὴ
τοῖς φαρμάκοις ἡμᾶς καὶ τοῖς ἰατρικοῖς ὀργάνοις πρὸς τοὺς
κάμνοντας χρῆσθαι, καὶ δὴ καὶ τοῖς πλοίοις τε αὐτοῖς καὶ
298d τοῖς ναυτικοῖς ὀργάνοις εἰς τὴν τῶν πλοίων χρείαν καὶ περὶ
τοὺς κινδύνους τούς τε πρὸς αὐτὸν τὸν πλοῦν ἀνέμων καὶ
θαλάττης πέρι καὶ πρὸς τὰς τοῖς λῃσταῖς ἐντεύξεις, καὶ ἐὰν
ναυμαχεῖν ἄρα δέῃ που μακροῖς πλοίοις πρὸς ἕτερα τοιαῦτα·
τὰ δὲ τῷ πλήθει δόξαντα περὶ τούτων, εἴτε τινῶν ἰατρῶν καὶ
κυβερνητῶν εἴτ' ἄλλων ἰδιωτῶν συμβουλευόντων, γράψαντας
298e ἐν κύρβεσί τισι καὶ στήλαις, τὰ δὲ καὶ ἄγραφα πάτρια θεμένους
ἔθη, κατὰ ταῦτα ἤδη πάντα τὸν ἔπειτα χρόνον ναυτίλλεσθαι
καὶ τὰς τῶν καμνόντων θεραπείας ποιεῖσθαι.
Str.Something of this sort: Imagine that we all thought in regard to captains and physicians: We are most abominably treated by them. For whomsoever of us either of them wishes to save, he saves, one of them just like the other, and whomsoever he wishes to maltreat, he maltreats. They cut us up and burn us and order us to bring them payments of money, as if they were exacting tribute, of which they spend little or nothing for their patients; they themselves and their servants use the rest. And finally they are bribed by the patient’s relatives or enemies and actually bring about his death. And as for the captains, they commit countless other misdeeds they make plots and leave us deserted ashore when they put out to sea, they bring on mishaps at sea and so cast us into the water, and are guilty of other wrong-doings. Now suppose, with these thoughts in mind, we deliberated about them and decided that we would no longer allow either of these arts to rule without control over slaves or free men, but that we would call an assembly either of all the people or of the rich only, and that anyone, whether he were engaged in some other form of skilled labor or were without any special qualifications, should be free to offer an opinion about navigation and diseases, how drugs and surgical or medical instruments should be applied to the patients, and how ships and nautical instruments should be used for navigation and in meeting dangers, not only those of winds and sea that affect the voyage itself, but also those met in encounters with pirates, and if battles have to be fought between ships of war; and that whatever the majority decided about these matters, whether any physicians or ship captains or merely unskilled persons took part in the deliberations, should be inscribed upon tablets and slabs or in some instances should be adopted as unwritten ancestral customs, and that henceforth forever navigation and the care of the sick should be conducted in accordance with these provisions.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Κομιδῇ γε εἴρηκας ἄτοπα.
Y. Soc.That is a most absurd state of things that you have described.
ΞΕ.Κατ' ἐνιαυτὸν δέ γε ἄρχοντας καθίστασθαι τοῦ
πλήθους, εἴτε ἐκ τῶν πλουσίων εἴτε ἐκ τοῦ δήμου παντός,
ὃς ἂν κληρούμενος λαγχάνῃ· τοὺς δὲ καταστάντας ἄρχοντας
ἄρχειν κατὰ τὰ γράμματα κυβερνῶντας τὰς ναῦς καὶ τοὺς
κάμνοντας ἰωμένους.
Str.And suppose that rulers of the people are set up annually, whether from the rich or from the whole people, on the principle that whoever is chosen by lot should rule, and that these rulers exercise their authority in commanding the ships or treating the sick in accordance with the written rules.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ταῦτ' ἔτι χαλεπώτερα.
Y. Soc.That is still harder to imagine.
ΞΕ.Θεῶ δὴ καὶ τὸ μετὰ ταῦτα ἑπόμενον. ἐπειδὰν γὰρ
δὴ τῶν ἀρχόντων ἑκάστοις ὁ ἐνιαυτὸς ἐξέλθῃ, δεήσει δικαστήρια
καθίσαντας ἀνδρῶν, ἢ τῶν πλουσίων ἐκ προκρίσεως ἢ
299a σύμπαντος αὖ τοῦ δήμου τοὺς λαχόντας, εἰς τούτους εἰσάγειν
τοὺς ἄρξαντας καὶ εὐθύνειν, κατηγορεῖν δὲ τὸν βουλόμενον
ὡς οὐ κατὰ τὰ γράμματα τὸν ἐνιαυτὸν ἐκυβέρνησε τὰς ναῦς
οὐδὲ κατὰ τὰ παλαιὰ τῶν προγόνων ἔθη· ταὐτὰ δὲ ταῦτα
καὶ περὶ τῶν τοὺς κάμνοντας ἰωμένων· ὧν δ' ἂν καταψηφισθῇ
τιμᾶν ὅτι χρὴ παθεῖν αὐτῶν τινας ἢ ἀποτίνειν.
Str.Now consider what comes next. When the year of office has passed for each set of rulers, there will have to be sessions of courts in which the judges are chosen by lot either from a selected list of the rich or from the whole people, and the rulers will have to be brought before these courts and examined as to their conduct in office, and anyone who pleases can bring against the captains an accusation for failure to command the ships during the year in accordance with the written laws or the ancestral customs, and similarly against the physicians for their treatment of the sick; and if any of them is found guilty, the court shall decide what his punishment or his fine shall be.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Οὐκοῦν ὅ γ' ἐθέλων καὶ ἑκὼν ἐν τοῖς τοιούτοις
299b ἄρχειν δικαιότατ' ἂν ὁτιοῦν πάσχοι καὶ ἀποτίνοι.
Y. Soc.Surely anyone who consents voluntarily to hold office under such conditions would richly deserve any penalty or fine that might be imposed.
ΞΕ.Καὶ τοίνυν ἔτι δεήσει θέσθαι νόμον ἐπὶ πᾶσι τούτοις,
ἄν τις κυβερνητικὴν καὶ τὸ ναυτικὸν ἢ τὸ ὑγιεινὸν καὶ
ἰατρικῆς ἀλήθειαν περὶ πνεύματά τε καὶ θερμὰ καὶ ψυχρὰ
ζητῶν φαίνηται παρὰ τὰ γράμματα καὶ σοφιζόμενος ὁτιοῦν
περὶ τὰ τοιαῦτα, πρῶτον μὲν μήτε ἰατρικὸν αὐτὸν μήτε
κυβερνητικὸν ὀνομάζειν ἀλλὰ μετεωρολόγον, ἀδολέσχην τινὰ
σοφιστήν, εἶθ' ὡς διαφθείροντα ἄλλους νεωτέρους καὶ ἀναπείθοντα
299c ἐπιτίθεσθαι κυβερνητικῇ καὶ ἰατρικῇ μὴ κατὰ νόμους,
ἀλλ' αὐτοκράτορας ἄρχειν τῶν πλοίων καὶ τῶν νοσούντων,
γραψάμενον εἰσάγειν τὸν βουλόμενον οἷς ἔξεστιν εἰς δή τι
δικαστήριον· ἂν δὲ παρὰ τοὺς νόμους καὶ τὰ γεγραμμένα
δόξῃ πείθειν εἴτε νέους εἴτε πρεσβύτας, κολάζειν τοῖς ἐσχάτοις.
οὐδὲν γὰρ δεῖν τῶν νόμων εἶναι σοφώτερον· οὐδένα
γὰρ ἀγνοεῖν τό τε ἰατρικὸν καὶ τὸ ὑγιεινὸν οὐδὲ τὸ κυβερνητικὸν
καὶ ναυτικόν· ἐξεῖναι γὰρ τῷ βουλομένῳ μανθάνειν
299d γεγραμμένα καὶ πάτρια ἔθη κείμενα. ταῦτα δὴ περί τε ταύτας
τὰς ἐπιστήμας εἰ γίγνοιτο οὕτως ὡς λέγομεν, ὦ Σώκρατες,
καὶ στρατηγικῆς καὶ συμπάσης ἡστινοσοῦν θηρευτικῆς καὶ
γραφικῆς ἢ συμπάσης μέρος ὁτιοῦν μιμητικῆς καὶ τεκτονικῆς
καὶ συνόλης ὁποιασοῦν σκευουργίας ἢ καὶ γεωργίας καὶ τῆς
περὶ τὰ φυτὰ συνόλης τέχνης, ἢ καί τινα ἱπποφορβίαν αὖ
κατὰ συγγράμματα θεασαίμεθα γιγνομένην ἢ σύμπασαν
ἀγελαιοκομικὴν ἢ μαντικὴν ἢ πᾶν ὅτι μέρος διακονικὴ
299e περιείληφεν, ἢ πεττείαν ἢ σύμπασαν ἀριθμητικὴν ψιλὴν
εἴτε ἐπίπεδον εἴτ' ἐν βάθεσιν εἴτ' ἐν τάχεσιν οὖσάν που, —
περὶ ἅπαντα ταῦτα οὕτω πραττόμενα τί ποτ' ἂν φανείη, κατὰ
συγγράμματα γιγνόμενα καὶ μὴ κατὰ τέχνην;
Str.And then, in addition to all this, there will have to be a law that if anyone is found to be investigating the art of pilotage or navigation or the subject of health and true medical doctrine about winds and things hot and cold, contrary to the written rules, or to be indulging in any speculation whatsoever on such matters, he shall in the first place not be called a physician or a ship captain, but a star-gazer, a kind of loquacious sophist, and secondly anyone who is properly qualified may bring an accusation against him and hale him into court for corrupting the young and persuading them to attack the arts of navigation and medicine in opposition to the laws and to govern the ships and the sick according to their own will; and if he is found to be so persuading either young or old contrary to the laws and written rules, he shall suffer the most extreme penalties. Nothing, they say, ought to be wiser than the laws; for no one is ignorant of medicine and the laws of health or of the pilot’s art and navigation, since anyone who pleases can learn the existing written rules and ancestral customs. Now if these regulations which I speak of were to be applied to these sciences, Socrates, and to strategy and every part of the entire art of hunting and to painting or every kind of imitation and to carpentry including every kind of utensil-making, or even to husbandry and all the art that is concerned with plants, or if we were to see an art of horse-breeding conducted by written rules, or herdsmanship in general or prophecy or everything that is included in the art of serving, or draught-playing or the whole science of number, whether arithmetic or plane geometry or solid geometry or problems of motion—what would you think of carrying on all these in such a way, by written rules and not by knowledge?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Δῆλον ὅτι πᾶσαί τε αἱ τέχναι παντελῶς ἂν
ἀπόλοιντο ἡμῖν, καὶ οὐδ' εἰς αὖθις γένοιντ' ἄν ποτε διὰ τὸν
ἀποκωλύοντα τοῦτον ζητεῖν νόμον· ὥστε ὁ βίος, ὢν καὶ νῦν
χαλεπός, εἰς τὸν χρόνον ἐκεῖνον ἀβίωτος γίγνοιτ' ἂν τὸ
παράπαν.
Y. Soc.Clearly all the arts would be utterly ruined, nor could they ever rise again, through the operation of the law prohibiting investigation; and so life, which is hard enough now, would then become absolutely unendurable.
300a ΞΕ.Τί δὲ τόδε; εἰ κατὰ συγγράμματα μὲν ἀναγκάζοιμεν
ἕκαστον γίγνεσθαι τῶν εἰρημένων καὶ τοῖς συγγράμμασιν
ἡμῶν ἐπιστατεῖν τὸν χειροτονηθέντα ἢ λαχόντα ἐκ τύχης,
οὗτος δὲ μηδὲν φροντίζων τῶν γραμμάτων ἢ κέρδους ἕνεκέν
τινος ἢ χάριτος ἰδίας παρὰ ταῦτ' ἐπιχειροῖ δρᾶν ἕτερα, μηδὲν
γιγνώσκων, ἆρα οὐ τοῦ κακοῦ τοῦ πρόσθεν μεῖζον ἂν ἔτι
τοῦτο γίγνοιτο κακόν;
Str.Here is a further point. If we ordained that each of the aforesaid arts must be carried on by written rules and that the observance of our written rules be under the charge of the man who is elected or chosen by lot, but he should disregard the written rules and for the sake of some gain or to do a favor to some one should try to act contrary to them, without possessing any knowledge, would not this be a greater evil than the former?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ἀληθέστατά [γε].
Y. Soc.Most assuredly.
300b ΞΕ.Παρὰ γὰρ οἶμαι τοὺς νόμους τοὺς ἐκ πείρας πολλῆς
κειμένους καί τινων συμβούλων ἕκαστα χαριέντως συμβουλευσάντων
καὶ πεισάντων θέσθαι τὸ πλῆθος, ὁ παρὰ ταῦτα
τολμῶν δρᾶν, ἁμαρτήματος ἁμάρτημα πολλαπλάσιον ἀπεργαζόμενος,
ἀνατρέποι πᾶσαν ἂν πρᾶξιν ἔτι μειζόνως τῶν
συγγραμμάτων.
Str.Since the laws are made after long experience and after commissioners of some kind have carefully considered each detail with delicate skill and have persuaded the people to pass them, anyone, I fancy, who ventured to violate them would be involved in error many times greater than the first, and would cause even greater ruin than the written laws to all kinds of transactions.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς δ' οὐ μέλλει;
Y. Soc.Of course he would.
300c ΞΕ.Διὰ ταῦτα δὴ τοῖς περὶ ὁτουοῦν νόμους καὶ συγγράμματα
τιθεμένοις δεύτερος πλοῦς τὸ παρὰ ταῦτα μήτε
ἕνα μήτε πλῆθος μηδὲν μηδέποτε ἐᾶν δρᾶν μηδ' ὁτιοῦν.
Str.Therefore the next best course for those who make laws or written rules about anything whatsoever is to prohibit any violation of them whatsoever, either by one person or by a greater number.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ὀρθῶς.
Y. Soc.Right.
ΞΕ.Οὐκοῦν μιμήματα μὲν ἂν ἑκάστων ταῦτα εἴη τῆς
ἀληθείας, τὰ παρὰ τῶν εἰδότων εἰς δύναμιν εἶναι γεγραμμένα;
Str.These laws, then, written by men who know in so far as knowledge is possible, are imitations in each instance of some part of truth?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς δ' οὔ;
Y. Soc.Of course.
ΞΕ.Καὶ μὴν τόν γε εἰδότα ἔφαμεν, τὸν ὄντως πολιτικόν,
εἰ μεμνήμεθα, ποιήσειν τῇ τέχνῃ πολλὰ εἰς τὴν αὑτοῦ
πρᾶξιν τῶν γραμμάτων οὐδὲν φροντίζοντα, ὁπόταν ἄλλ' αὐτῷ
300d βελτίω δόξῃ παρὰ τὰ γεγραμμένα ὑφ' αὑτοῦ καὶ ἐπεσταλμένα
ἀποῦσίν τισιν.
Str.And yet we said, if we remember, that the man of knowledge, the real statesman, would by his art make many changes in his practice without regard to his writings, when he thought another course was better though it violated the rules he had written and sent to his absent subjects.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ἔφαμεν γάρ.
Y. Soc.Yes, we did say that.
ΞΕ.Οὐκοῦν ἀνὴρ ὁστισοῦν εἷς ἢ πλῆθος ὁτιοῦν, οἷς ἂν
νόμοι κείμενοι τυγχάνωσι, παρὰ ταῦτα ὅτι ἂν ἐπιχειρήσωσι
ποιεῖν ὡς βέλτιον ἕτερον ὄν, ταὐτὸν δρῶσι κατὰ δύναμιν
ὅπερ ὁ ἀληθινὸς ἐκεῖνος;
Str.But is it not true that any man or any number of men whatsoever who have written laws, if they undertake to make any change in those laws, thinking it is all improvement, are doing, to the best of their ability, the same thing which our true statesman does?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πάνυ μὲν οὖν.
Y. Soc.Certainly.
ΞΕ.Ἆρ' οὖν εἰ μὲν ἀνεπιστήμονες ὄντες τὸ τοιοῦτον
δρῷεν, μιμεῖσθαι μὲν ἂν ἐπιχειροῖεν τὸ ἀληθές, μιμοῖντ' ἂν
300e μέντοι παγκάκως· εἰ δ' ἔντεχνοι, τοῦτο οὐκ ἔστιν ἔτι μίμημα
ἀλλ' αὐτὸ τὸ ἀληθέστατον ἐκεῖνο;
Str.If, then, they were to do this without science, however, imitate badly in every case; but if they were scientific, then it would no longer be imitation, but the actual perfect reality of which we spoke?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πάντως που.
Y. Soc.Yes, assuredly.
ΞΕ.Καὶ μὴν ἔμπροσθέ γε ὡμολογημένον ἡμῖν κεῖται
μηδὲν πλῆθος μηδ' ἡντινοῦν δυνατὸν εἶναι λαβεῖν τέχνην.
Str.And yet we agreed definitely a while ago that no multitude is able to acquire any art whatsoever.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Κεῖται γὰρ οὖν.
Y. Soc.Yes, that is definitely agreed.
ΞΕ.Οὐκοῦν εἰ μὲν ἔστι βασιλική τις τέχνη, τὸ τῶν
πλουσίων πλῆθος καὶ ὁ σύμπας δῆμος οὐκ ἄν ποτε λάβοι
τὴν πολιτικὴν ταύτην ἐπιστήμην.
Str.Then if there is a kingly art, neither the collective body of the wealthy nor the whole people could ever acquire this science of statesmanship.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς γὰρ ἄν;
Y. Soc.No; certainly not.
ΞΕ.Δεῖ δὴ τὰς τοιαύτας γε ὡς ἔοικε πολιτείας, εἰ μέλλουσι
301a καλῶς τὴν ἀληθινὴν ἐκείνην τὴν τοῦ ἑνὸς μετὰ τέχνης
ἄρχοντος πολιτείαν εἰς δύναμιν μιμήσεσθαι, μηδέποτε κειμένων
αὐτοῖς τῶν νόμων μηδὲν ποιεῖν παρὰ τὰ γεγραμμένα
καὶ πάτρια ἔθη.
Str.Such states, then, it seems, if they are to imitate well, so far as possible, that true form of government— by a single ruler who rules with science—must never do anything in contravention of their existing written laws and ancestral customs.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Κάλλιστ' εἴρηκας.
Y. Soc.You are quite right.
ΞΕ.Ὅταν ἄρα οἱ πλούσιοι ταύτην μιμῶνται, τότε
ἀριστοκρατίαν καλοῦμεν τὴν τοιαύτην πολιτείαν· ὁπόταν δὲ
τῶν νόμων μὴ φροντίζωσιν, ὀλιγαρχίαν.
Str.Then whenever the rich imitate this government, we call such a state an aristocracy; and when they disregard the laws, we call it an oligarchy.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Κινδυνεύει.
Y. Soc.Yes, I think we do.
ΞΕ.Καὶ μὴν ὁπόταν αὖθις εἷς ἄρχῃ κατὰ νόμους, μιμούμενος
301b τὸν ἐπιστήμονα, βασιλέα καλοῦμεν, οὐ διορίζοντες
ὀνόματι τὸν μετ' ἐπιστήμης ἢ δόξης κατὰ νόμους μοναρχοῦντα.
Str.And again, when one man rules according to laws and imitates the scientific ruler, we call him a king, making no distinction in name between the single ruler who rules by science and him who rules by opinion if they both rule in accordance with laws.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Κινδυνεύομεν.
Y. Soc.Yes, I think we do.
ΞΕ.Οὐκοῦν κἄν τις ἄρα ἐπιστήμων ὄντως ὢν εἷς ἄρχῃ,
πάντως τό γε ὄνομα ταὐτὸν βασιλεὺς καὶ οὐδὲν ἕτερον
προσρηθήσεται· δι' ἃ δὴ τὰ πέντε ὀνόματα τῶν νῦν λεγομένων
πολιτειῶν ἓν μόνον γέγονεν.
Str.Accordingly, if one man who is really scientific rules, he will assuredly be called by the same name, king, and by no other; and so the five names of what are now called the forms of government have become only one.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ἔοικε γοῦν.
Y. Soc.So it seems, at least.
ΞΕ.Τί δ' ὅταν μήτε κατὰ νόμους μήτε κατὰ ἔθη πράττῃ
301c τις εἷς ἄρχων, προσποιῆται δὲ ὥσπερ ὁ ἐπιστήμων ὡς ἄρα
παρὰ τὰ γεγραμμένα τό γε βέλτιστον ποιητέον, ᾖ δέ τις
ἐπιθυμία καὶ ἄγνοια τούτου τοῦ μιμήματος ἡγουμένη, μῶν
οὐ τότε τὸν τοιοῦτον ἕκαστον τύραννον κλητέον;
Str.But when a single ruler acts in accordance with neither laws nor customs, but claims, in imitation of the scientific ruler, that whatever is best must be done, even though it be contrary to the written laws, and this imitation is inspired by desire and ignorance, is not such a ruler to be called in every instance a tyrant?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τί μήν;
Y. Soc.Certainly.
ΞΕ.Οὕτω δὴ τύραννός τε γέγονε, φαμέν, καὶ βασιλεὺς
καὶ ὀλιγαρχία καὶ ἀριστοκρατία καὶ δημοκρατία, δυσχερανάντων
τῶν ἀνθρώπων τὸν ἕνα ἐκεῖνον μόναρχον, καὶ ἀπιστησάντων
μηδένα τῆς τοιαύτης ἀρχῆς ἄξιον ἂν γενέσθαι ποτέ,
301d ὥστε ἐθέλειν καὶ δυνατὸν εἶναι μετ' ἀρετῆς καὶ ἐπιστήμης
ἄρχοντα τὰ δίκαια καὶ ὅσια διανέμειν ὀρθῶς πᾶσιν, λωβᾶσθαι
δὲ καὶ ἀποκτεινύναι καὶ κακοῦν ὃν ἂν βουληθῇ ἑκάστοτε
ἡμῶν· ἐπεὶ γενόμενόν γ' ἂν οἷον λέγομεν ἀγαπᾶσθαί τε ἂν
καὶ οἰκεῖν διακυβερνῶντα εὐδαιμόνως ὀρθὴν ἀκριβῶς μόνον
πολιτείαν.
Str.Thus, we say, the tyrant has arisen, and the king and oligarchy and aristocracy and democracy, because men are not contented with that one perfect ruler, and do not believe that there could ever be any one worthy of such power or willing and able by ruling with virtue and knowledge to dispense justice and equity rightly to all, but that he will harm and kill and injure any one of us whom he chooses on any occasion, since they admit that if such a man as we describe should really arise, he would be welcomed and would continue to dwell among them, directing to their weal as sole ruler a perfectly right form of government.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς δ' οὔ;
Y. Soc.Certainly.
ΞΕ.Νῦν δέ γε ὁπότε οὐκ ἔστι γιγνόμενος, ὡς δή
301e φαμεν, ἐν ταῖς πόλεσι βασιλεὺς οἷος ἐν σμήνεσιν ἐμφύεται,
τό τε σῶμα εὐθὺς καὶ τὴν ψυχὴν διαφέρων εἷς, δεῖ δὴ
συνελθόντας συγγράμματα γράφειν, ὡς ἔοικεν, μεταθέοντας
τὰ τῆς ἀληθεστάτης πολιτείας ἴχνη.
Str.But, as the case now stands, since, as we claim, no king is produced in our states who is, like the ruler of the bees in their hives, by birth pre-eminently fitted from the beginning in body and mind, we are obliged, as it seems, to follow in the track of the perfect and true form of government by coming together and making written laws.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Κινδυνεύει.
Y. Soc.Yes, I suppose we are.
ΞΕ.Θαυμάζομεν δῆτα, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἐν ταῖς τοιαύταις
πολιτείαις ὅσα συμβαίνει γίγνεσθαι κακὰ καὶ ὅσα συμβήσεται,
τοιαύτης τῆς κρηπῖδος ὑποκειμένης αὐταῖς, τῆς κατὰ
γράμματα καὶ ἔθη μὴ μετὰ ἐπιστήμης πραττούσης τὰς
302a πράξεις, <ᾗ> ἑτέρα προσχρωμένη παντὶ κατάδηλος ὡς πάντ'
ἂν διολέσειε τὰ ταύτῃ γιγνόμενα; ἢ ἐκεῖνο ἡμῖν θαυμαστέον
μᾶλλον, ὡς ἰσχυρόν τι πόλις ἐστὶ φύσει; πάσχουσαι γὰρ
δὴ τοιαῦτα αἱ πόλεις νῦν χρόνον ἀπέραντον, ὅμως ἔνιαί
τινες αὐτῶν μόνιμοί τέ εἰσι καὶ οὐκ ἀνατρέπονται· πολλαὶ
μὴν ἐνίοτε καὶ καθάπερ πλοῖα καταδυόμεναι διόλλυνται καὶ
διολώλασι καὶ ἔτι διολοῦνται διὰ τὴν τῶν κυβερνητῶν καὶ
ναυτῶν μοχθηρίαν τῶν περὶ τὰ μέγιστα μεγίστην ἄγνοιαν
302b εἰληφότων, οἳ περὶ τὰ πολιτικὰ κατ' οὐδὲν γιγνώσκοντες
ἡγοῦνται κατὰ πάντα σαφέστατα πασῶν ἐπιστημῶν ταύτην
εἰληφέναι.
Str.Can we wonder, then, Socrates, at all the evils that arise and are destined to arise in such kinds of government, when they are based upon such a foundation, and must conduct their affairs in accordance with written laws and with customs, without knowledge? For every one can see that any other art built upon such a foundation would ruin all its works that are so produced. Ought we not rather to wonder at the stability that inheres in the state? For states have labored under such conditions for countless ages, nevertheless some of them are lasting and are not overthrown. Many, to be sure, like ships that founder at sea, are destroyed, have been destroyed, and will be destroyed hereafter, through the worthlessness of their captains and crews who have the greatest ignorance of the greatest things, men who have no knowledge of statesmanship, but think they have in every respect most perfect knowledge of this above all other sciences.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ἀληθέστατα.
Y. Soc.Very true.
ΞΕ.Τίς οὖν δὴ τῶν οὐκ ὀρθῶν πολιτειῶν τούτων ἥκιστα
χαλεπὴ συζῆν, πασῶν χαλεπῶν οὐσῶν, καὶ τίς βαρυτάτη;
δεῖ τι κατιδεῖν ἡμᾶς, καίπερ πρός γε τὸ νῦν προτεθὲν ἡμῖν
πάρεργον λεγόμενον; οὐ μὴν ἀλλ' εἴς γε τὸ ὅλον ἴσως
ἅπανθ' ἕνεκα τοῦ τοιούτου πάντες δρῶμεν χάριν.
Str.Is it, then, our duty to see which of these not right forms of government is the least difficult to live with, though all are difficult, and which is the most oppressive, although this is somewhat aside from the subject we had proposed for ourselves? On the whole, however, perhaps all of us have some such motive in mind in all that we are doing.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Δεῖ· πῶς δ' οὔ;
Y. Soc.Yes, it is our duty, of course.
302c ΞΕ.Τὴν αὐτὴν τοίνυν φάθι τριῶν οὐσῶν χαλεπὴν διαφερόντως
γίγνεσθαι καὶ ῥᾴστην.
Str.Well then, you may say that of the three forms, the same is both the hardest and the easiest.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς φῄς;
Y. Soc.What do you mean?
ΞΕ.Οὐκ ἄλλως, πλὴν μοναρχίαν φημὶ καὶ ὀλίγων ἀρχὴν
καὶ πολλῶν, εἶναι τρεῖς ταύτας ἡμῖν λεγομένας τοῦ νῦν
ἐπικεχυμένου λόγου κατ' ἀρχάς.
Str.Just this: I mean that there are three forms of government, as we said at the beginning of the discussion which has now flowed in upon us—monarchy, the rule of the few, and the rule of the many.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ἦσαν γὰρ οὖν.
Y. Soc.Yes, there were those three.
ΞΕ.Ταύτας τοίνυν δίχα τέμνοντες μίαν ἑκάστην ἓξ
ποιῶμεν, τὴν ὀρθὴν χωρὶς ἀποκρίναντες τούτων ἑβδόμην.
Str.Let us, then, by dividing each of these into two parts, make six, and by distinguishing the right government from these, a seventh.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς;
Y. Soc.How shall we make the division?
302d ΞΕ.Ἐκ μὲν τῆς μοναρχίας βασιλικὴν καὶ τυραννικήν,
ἐκ δ' αὖ τῶν μὴ πολλῶν τήν τε εὐώνυμον ἔφαμεν [εἶναι]
ἀριστοκρατίαν καὶ ὀλιγαρχίαν· ἐκ δ' αὖ τῶν πολλῶν τότε
μὲν ἁπλῆν ἐπονομάζοντες ἐτίθεμεν δημοκρατίαν, νῦν δ' αὖ
καὶ ταύτην ἡμῖν θετέον ἐστὶ διπλῆν.
Str.We said that monarchy comprised royalty and tyranny, and the rule of the few comprised aristocracy, which has a name of good omen, and oligarchy; but to the rule of the many we gave then only a single name, democracy; now, however, that also must be divided.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς δή; καὶ τίνι διαιροῦντες ταύτην;
Y. Soc.How? On what principle shall we divide that?
ΞΕ.Οὐδὲν διαφέροντι τῶν ἄλλων, οὐδ' εἰ τοὔνομα ἤδη
302e διπλοῦν ἐστι ταύτης· ἀλλὰ τό γε κατὰ νόμους ἄρχειν καὶ
παρανόμως ἔστι καὶ ταύτῃ καὶ ταῖς ἄλλαις.
Str.On the same that we used for the others, though the name of this form is already twofold in meaning. At any rate, the distinction between ruling according to law and without law applies alike to this and the rest.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ἔστι γὰρ οὖν.
Y. Soc.Yes, it does.
ΞΕ.Τότε μὲν τοίνυν τὴν ὀρθὴν ζητοῦσι τοῦτο τὸ τμῆμα
οὐκ ἦν χρήσιμον, ὡς ἐν τοῖς πρόσθεν ἀπεδείξαμεν· ἐπειδὴ
δὲ ἐξείλομεν ἐκείνην, τὰς δ' ἄλλας ἔθεμεν ἀναγκαίας, ἐν
ταύταις δὴ τὸ παράνομον καὶ ἔννομον ἑκάστην διχοτομεῖ
τούτων.
Str.Before, when we were in search of the right government, this division was of no use, as we showed at the time but now that we have set that apart and have decided that the others are the only available forms of government, the principle of lawfulness and lawlessness bisects each of them.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ἔοικεν τούτου νῦν ῥηθέντος τοῦ λόγου.
Y. Soc.So it seems, from what has been said.
ΞΕ.Μοναρχία τοίνυν ζευχθεῖσα μὲν ἐν γράμμασιν ἀγαθοῖς,
οὓς νόμους λέγομεν, ἀρίστη πασῶν τῶν ἕξ· ἄνομος δὲ
χαλεπὴ καὶ βαρυτάτη συνοικῆσαι.
Str.Monarchy, then, when bound by good written rules, which we call laws, is the best of all the six; but without law it is hard and most oppressive to live with.
303a ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Κινδυνεύει.
Y. Soc.I fancy it is.
ΞΕ.Τὴν δέ γε τῶν μὴ πολλῶν, ὥσπερ ἑνὸς καὶ πλήθους
τὸ ὀλίγον μέσον, οὕτως ἡγησώμεθα μέσην ἐπ' ἀμφότερα·
τὴν δ' αὖ τοῦ πλήθους κατὰ πάντα ἀσθενῆ καὶ μηδὲν μήτε
ἀγαθὸν μήτε κακὸν μέγα δυναμένην ὡς πρὸς τὰς ἄλλας διὰ
τὸ τὰς ἀρχὰς ἐν ταύτῃ διανενεμῆσθαι κατὰ σμικρὰ εἰς πολλούς.
διὸ γέγονε πασῶν μὲν νομίμων τῶν πολιτειῶν οὐσῶν
τούτων χειρίστη, παρανόμων δὲ οὐσῶν συμπασῶν βελτίστη·
303b καὶ ἀκολάστων μὲν πασῶν οὐσῶν ἐν δημοκρατίᾳ νικᾷ ζῆν,
κοσμίων δ' οὐσῶν ἥκιστα ἐν ταύτῃ βιωτέον, ἐν τῇ πρώτῃ
δὲ πολὺ πρῶτόν τε καὶ ἄριστον, πλὴν τῆς ἑβδόμης· πασῶν
γὰρ ἐκείνην γε ἐκκριτέον, οἷον θεὸν ἐξ ἀνθρώπων, ἐκ τῶν
ἄλλων πολιτειῶν.
Str.But just as few is intermediate between one and a multitude, so the government of the few must be considered intermediate, both in good and in evil. But the government of the multitude is weak in all respects and able to do nothing great, either good or bad, when compared with the other forms of government, because in this the powers of government are distributed in small shares among many men; therefore of all these governments when they are lawful, this is the worst, and when they are all lawless it is the best; and if they are all without restraint, life is most desirable in a democracy, but if they are orderly, that is the worst to live in; but life in the first kind of state is by far the first and best, with the exception of the seventh, for that must be set apart from all the others, as God is set apart from men.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Φαίνεται ταῦθ' οὕτω συμβαίνειν τε καὶ γίγνεσθαι,
καὶ ποιητέον ᾗπερ λέγεις.
Y. Soc.That statement appears to be true to the facts, and we must do as you say.
ΞΕ.Οὐκοῦν δὴ καὶ τοὺς κοινωνοὺς τούτων τῶν πολιτειῶν
303c πασῶν πλὴν τῆς ἐπιστήμονος ἀφαιρετέον ὡς οὐκ ὄντας
πολιτικοὺς ἀλλὰ στασιαστικούς, καὶ εἰδώλων μεγίστων προστάτας
ὄντας καὶ αὐτοὺς εἶναι τοιούτους, μεγίστους δὲ ὄντας
μιμητὰς καὶ γόητας μεγίστους γίγνεσθαι τῶν σοφιστῶν
σοφιστάς.
Str.Then those who participate in all those governments with the exception of the scientific one—are to be eliminated as not being statesmen, but partisans and since they preside over the greatest counterfeits, they are themselves counterfeits, and since they are the greatest of imitators and cheats, they are the greatest of all sophists.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Κινδυνεύει τοῦτο εἰς τοὺς πολιτικοὺς λεγομένους
περιεστράφθαι τὸ ῥῆμα ὀρθότατα.
Y. Soc.This term sophist seems to have come round quite rightly to the so-called statesmen.
ΞΕ.Εἶεν· τοῦτο μὲν ἀτεχνῶς ἡμῖν ὥσπερ δρᾶμα, καθάπερ
ἐρρήθη νυνδὴ Κενταυρικὸν ὁρᾶσθαι καὶ Σατυρικόν τινα
303d θίασον, ὃν δὴ χωριστέον ἀπὸ πολιτικῆς εἴη τέχνης· νῦν δ'
οὕτω πάνυ μόγις ἐχωρίσθη.
Str.Well, this part has been exactly like a play. Just as we remarked a moment ago, a festive troop of centaurs or satyrs was coming into view, which we had to separate from the art of statesmanship; and now we have succeeded in doing this, though it has been very difficult.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Φαίνεται.
Y. Soc.So it seems.
ΞΕ.Τούτου δέ γ' ἕτερον ἔτι χαλεπώτερον λείπεται τῷ
συγγενές τε ὁμοῦ τ' εἶναι μᾶλλον τῷ βασιλικῷ γένει καὶ
δυσκαταμαθητότερον· καί μοι φαινόμεθα τοῖς τὸν χρυσὸν
καθαίρουσι πάθος ὅμοιον πεπονθέναι.
Str.But another group remains, which is still more difficult to separate, because it is more closely akin to the kingly class and is also harder to recognize. I think we are in somewhat the same position as refiners of gold.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς;
Y. Soc.How so?
ΞΕ.Γῆν που καὶ λίθους καὶ πόλλ' ἄττα ἕτερα ἀποκρίνουσι
καὶ ἐκεῖνοι πρῶτον οἱ δημιουργοί· μετὰ δὲ ταῦτα
303e λείπεται συμμεμειγμένα τὰ συγγενῆ τοῦ χρυσοῦ τίμια καὶ
πυρὶ μόνον ἀφαιρετά, χαλκὸς καὶ ἄργυρος, ἔστι δ' ὅτε καὶ
ἀδάμας, <ἃ> μετὰ βασάνων ταῖς ἑψήσεσι μόγις ἀφαιρεθέντα
τὸν λεγόμενον ἀκήρατον χρυσὸν εἴασεν ἡμᾶς ἰδεῖν αὐτὸν
μόνον ἐφ' ἑαυτοῦ.
Str.Why, the refiners first remove earth and stones and all that sort of thing; and after that there remain the precious substances which are mixed with the gold and akin to it and can be removed only by fire—copper and silver and sometimes adamant. These are removed by the difficult processes of smelting and tests, leaving before our eyes what is called unalloyed gold in all its purity.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Λέγεται γὰρ οὖν δὴ ταῦτα οὕτω γίγνεσθαι.
Y. Soc.Yes, that is said, at least, to be the process.
ΞΕ.Κατὰ τὸν αὐτὸν τοίνυν λόγον ἔοικε καὶ νῦν ἡμῖν
τὰ μὲν ἕτερα καὶ ὁπόσα ἀλλότρια καὶ τὰ μὴ φίλα πολιτικῆς
ἐπιστήμης ἀποκεχωρίσθαι, λείπεσθαι δὲ τὰ τίμια καὶ συγγενῆ.
τούτων δ' ἐστί που στρατηγία καὶ δικαστικὴ καὶ ὅση
304a βασιλικῇ κοινωνοῦσα ῥητορεία πείθουσα τὸ δίκαιον συνδιακυβερνᾷ
τὰς ἐν ταῖς πόλεσι πράξεις· ἃ δὴ τίνι τρόπῳ ῥᾷστά
τις ἀπομερίζων δείξει γυμνὸν καὶ μόνον ἐκεῖνον καθ' αὑτὸν
τὸν ζητούμενον ὑφ' ἡμῶν;
Str.By the same method I think all that is different and alien and incompatible has now been eliminated by us from the science of statesmanship, and what is precious and akin to it is left. Herein are included the arts of the general and of the judge and that kind of oratory which partakes of the kingly art because it persuades men to justice and thereby helps to steer the ship of state. Now in what way shall we most easily eliminate these and show him whom we seek alone by himself and undisguised?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Δῆλον ὅτι τοῦτό πῃ δρᾶν πειρατέον.
Y. Soc.Clearly we must do this somehow.
ΞΕ.Πείρας μὲν τοίνυν ἕνεκα φανερὸς ἔσται· διὰ δὲ
μουσικῆς αὐτὸν ἐγχειρητέον δηλῶσαι. καί μοι λέγε.
Str.Then if it is a question of trying, he will be shown. But I think we had better try to disclose him by means of music. Please answer my question.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τὸ ποῖον;
Y. Soc.What is it?
304b ΞΕ.Μουσικῆς ἔστι πού τις ἡμῖν μάθησις, καὶ ὅλως τῶν
περὶ χειροτεχνίας ἐπιστημῶν;
Str.Shall we agree that there is such a thing as learning music and the sciences of handicraft in general?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ἔστιν.
Y. Soc.There is.
ΞΕ.Τί δέ; τὸ δ' αὖ τούτων ἡντινοῦν εἴτε δεῖ μανθάνειν
ἡμᾶς εἴτε μή, πότερα φήσομεν ἐπιστήμην αὖ καὶ ταύτην
εἶναί τινα περὶ αὐτὰ ταῦτα, ἢ πῶς;
Str.And how about this? Shall we say that there is another science connected with those, which tells whether we ought or ought not to learn any one of then?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Οὕτως, εἶναι φήσομεν.
Y. Soc.Yes, we shall say that there is.
ΞΕ.Οὐκοῦν ἑτέραν ὁμολογήσομεν ἐκείνων εἶναι ταύτην;
Str.And shall we agree that this is different from those?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ναί.
Y. Soc.Yes.
ΞΕ.Πότερα δὲ αὐτῶν οὐδεμίαν ἄρχειν δεῖν ἄλλην ἄλλης,
304c ἢ ἐκείνας ταύτης, ἢ ταύτην δεῖν ἐπιτροπεύουσαν ἄρχειν
συμπασῶν τῶν ἄλλων;
Str.And shall we say that none of them ought to have control of any other, or that those sciences should control this one, or that this should control and rule all the others?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ταύτην ἐκείνων.
Y. Soc.This should control those others.
ΞΕ.<Τὴν> εἰ δεῖ μανθάνειν ἢ μὴ τῆς μανθανομένης καὶ
διδασκούσης ἄρα σύ γε ἀποφαίνῃ δεῖν ἡμῖν ἄρχειν;
Str.You mean that the science which decides whether we ought to learn or not should control the science which is learnt or teaches?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Σφόδρα γε.
Y. Soc.Emphatically.
ΞΕ.Καὶ τὴν εἰ δεῖ πείθειν ἄρα ἢ μὴ τῆς δυναμένης
πείθειν;
Str.And the science which decides whether to persuade or not should control that which can persuade?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς δ' οὔ;
Y. Soc.Certainly.
ΞΕ.Εἶεν· τίνι τὸ πειστικὸν οὖν ἀποδώσομεν ἐπιστήμῃ
304d πλήθους τε καὶ ὄχλου διὰ μυθολογίας ἀλλὰ μὴ διὰ
διδαχῆς;
Str.Well, then, to what science shall we assign the power of persuading a multitude or a mob by telling edifying stories, not by teaching?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Φανερὸν οἶμαι καὶ τοῦτο ῥητορικῇ δοτέον ὄν.
Y. Soc.It is, I think, clear that this must be added to rhetoric.
ΞΕ.Τὸ δ' εἴτε διὰ πειθοῦς εἴτε καὶ διά τινος βίας δεῖ
πράττειν πρός τινας ὁτιοῦν ἢ καὶ τὸ παράπαν <ἡσυχίαν>
ἔχειν, τοῦτ' αὖ ποίᾳ προσθήσομεν ἐπιστήμῃ;
Str.But the power of deciding whether some action, no matter what, should be taken, either by persuasion or by some exercise of force, in relation to any person, or whether to take no action at all—to what science is that to be assigned?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τῇ τῆς πειστικῆς ἀρχούσῃ καὶ λεκτικῆς.
Y. Soc.To the science which controls the sciences of persuasion and speech.
ΞΕ.Εἴη δ' ἂν οὐκ ἄλλη τις, ὡς οἶμαι, πλὴν ἡ τοῦ
πολιτικοῦ δύναμις.
Str.And that would, I think, be no other than the function of the statesman.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Κάλλιστ' εἴρηκας.
Y. Soc.A most excellent conclusion.
ΞΕ.Καὶ τοῦτο μὲν ἔοικε ταχὺ κεχωρίσθαι πολιτικῆς τὸ
304e ῥητορικόν, ὡς ἕτερον εἶδος ὄν, ὑπηρετοῦν μὴν ταύτῃ.
Str.So rhetoric also seems to have been quickly separated from statesmanship as a different species, subservient to the other.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ναί.
Y. Soc.Yes.
ΞΕ.Τί δὲ περὶ τῆς τοιᾶσδ' αὖ δυνάμεως διανοητέον;
Str.Here is another function or power; what are we to think about it?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ποίας;
Y. Soc.What is it?
ΞΕ.Τῆς ὡς πολεμητέον ἑκάστοις οἷς ἂν προελώμεθα
πολεμεῖν, εἴτε αὐτὴν ἄτεχνον εἴτε ἔντεχνον ἐροῦμεν;
Str.The power of determining how war shall be waged against those upon whom we have declared war, whether we are to call this a science or not a science?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Καὶ πῶς ἂν ἄτεχνον διανοηθεῖμεν, ἥν γε ἡ
στρατηγικὴ καὶ πᾶσα ἡ πολεμικὴ πρᾶξις πράττει;
Y. Soc.How could we think it is not a science, when generalship and all military activity practise it?
ΞΕ.Τὴν δὲ εἴτε πολεμητέον εἴτε διὰ φιλίας ἀπαλλακτέον
οἵαν τε καὶ ἐπιστήμονα διαβουλεύσασθαι, ταύτης ἑτέραν
ὑπολάβωμεν ἢ τὴν αὐτὴν ταύτῃ;
Str.And the power which is able and knows how to deliberate and decide whether to make war or peace, shall we assume that it is the same as this or different?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τοῖς πρόσθεν ἀναγκαῖον ἑπομένοισιν ἑτέραν.
Y. Soc.If we are consistent, we must assume that it is different.
305a ΞΕ.Οὐκοῦν ἄρχουσαν ταύτης αὐτὴν ἀποφανούμεθα,
εἴπερ τοῖς ἔμπροσθέν γε ὑποληψόμεθα ὁμοίως;
Str.Shall we, then, assume that it controls the other, if we are to agree with our views in the former examples?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Φημί.
Y. Soc.Yes.
ΞΕ.Τίν' οὖν ποτε καὶ ἐπιχειρήσομεν οὕτω δεινῆς καὶ
μεγάλης τέχνης συμπάσης τῆς πολεμικῆς δεσπότιν ἀποφαίνεσθαι
πλήν γε δὴ τὴν ὄντως οὖσαν βασιλικήν;
Str.And what other art shall we make bold to declare is mistress of that great and terrible art, the art of war as a whole, except the truly kingly art?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Οὐδεμίαν ἄλλην.
Y. Soc.No other.
ΞΕ.Οὐκ ἄρα πολιτικὴν θήσομεν, ὑπηρετικήν γε οὖσαν,
τὴν τῶν στρατηγῶν ἐπιστήμην.
Str.We shall, then, not call the art of the generals statesmanship, since it is subservient.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Οὐκ εἰκός.
Y. Soc.No; that would not be reasonable.
305b ΞΕ.Ἴθι δή, καὶ τὴν τῶν δικαστῶν τῶν ὀρθῶς δικαζόντων
θεασώμεθα δύναμιν.
Str.Now let us examine the function of the righteous judges.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πάνυ μὲν οὖν.
Y. Soc.Certainly.
ΞΕ.Ἆρ' οὖν ἐπὶ πλέον τι δύναται τοῦ περὶ τὰ συμβόλαια
πάνθ' ὁπόσα κεῖται νόμιμα παρὰ νομοθέτου βασιλέως
παραλαβοῦσα, κρίνειν εἰς ἐκεῖνα σκοποῦσα τά τε δίκαια
ταχθέντ' εἶναι καὶ ἄδικα, τὴν αὑτῆς ἰδίαν ἀρετὴν παρεχομένη
τοῦ μήθ' ὑπό τινων δώρων μήθ' ὑπὸ φόβων μήτε οἴκτων μήθ'
305c ὑπό τινος ἄλλης ἔχθρας μηδὲ φιλίας ἡττηθεῖσα παρὰ τὴν
τοῦ νομοθέτου τάξιν ἐθέλειν ἂν τἀλλήλων ἐγκλήματα
διαιρεῖν;
Str.Has it any power beyond that of judging men’s contracts with one another, pronouncing them right or wrong by the standard of the existing laws which it has received from the king and law-giver; showing its own peculiar virtue in that it is not so perverted by any bribes, or fears, or pity, or enmity, or friendship, as ever to consent to decide the lawsuits of men with each other contrary to the enactments of the lawgiver?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Οὔκ, ἀλλὰ σχεδὸν ὅσον εἴρηκας ταύτης ἐστὶ
τῆς δυνάμεως ἔργον.
Y. Soc.No; the business of this power is about as you have described it.
ΞΕ.Καὶ τὴν τῶν δικαστῶν ἄρα ῥώμην ἀνευρίσκομεν οὐ
βασιλικὴν οὖσαν ἀλλὰ νόμων φύλακα καὶ ὑπηρέτιν ἐκείνης.
Str.Then we find that the strength of judges is not kingly, but is guardian of laws and a servant of the kingly power.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ἔοικέν γε.
Y. Soc.So it appears.
ΞΕ.Τόδε δὴ κατανοητέον ἰδόντι συναπάσας τὰς ἐπιστήμας
αἳ εἴρηνται, ὅτι πολιτική γε αὐτῶν οὐδεμία ἀνεφάνη.
305d τὴν γὰρ ὄντως οὖσαν βασιλικὴν οὐκ αὐτὴν δεῖ πράττειν ἀλλ'
ἄρχειν τῶν δυναμένων πράττειν, γιγνώσκουσαν τὴν ἀρχήν
τε καὶ ὁρμὴν τῶν μεγίστων ἐν ταῖς πόλεσιν ἐγκαιρίας τε
πέρι καὶ ἀκαιρίας, τὰς δ' ἄλλας τὰ προσταχθέντα δρᾶν.
Str.The consideration of all these arts which have been mentioned leads to the conclusion that none of them is the art of the statesman. For the art that is truly kingly ought not to act itself, but should rule over the arts that have the power of action; it should decide upon the right or wrong time for the initiation of the most important measures in the state, and the other arts should perform its behests.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ὀρθῶς.
Y. Soc.Right.
ΞΕ.Διὰ ταῦτα ἄρα ἃς μὲν ἄρτι διεληλύθαμεν, οὔτ' ἀλλήλων
οὔθ' αὑτῶν ἄρχουσαι, περὶ δέ τινα ἰδίαν αὑτῆς οὖσα
ἑκάστη πρᾶξιν, κατὰ τὴν ἰδιότητα τῶν πράξεων τοὔνομα
δικαίως εἴληφεν ἴδιον.
Str.Therefore those arts which we have just described, as they control neither one another nor themselves, but have each its own peculiar sphere of action, are quite properly called by special names corresponding to those special actions.
305e ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Εἴξασι γοῦν.
Y. Soc.That appears, at least, to be the case.
ΞΕ.Τὴν δὲ πασῶν τε τούτων ἄρχουσαν καὶ τῶν νόμων
καὶ συμπάντων τῶν κατὰ πόλιν ἐπιμελουμένην καὶ πάντα
συνυφαίνουσαν ὀρθότατα, τοῦ κοινοῦ τῇ κλήσει περιλαβόντες
τὴν δύναμιν αὐτῆς, προσαγορεύοιμεν δικαιότατ' ἄν,
ὡς ἔοικε, πολιτικήν.
Str.But the art which holds sway over them all and watches over the laws and all things in the state, weaving them all most perfectly together, we may, I think, by giving to its function a designation which indicates its power over the community, with full propriety call statecraft.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Παντάπασι μὲν οὖν.
Y. Soc.Most assuredly.
ΞΕ.Οὐκοῦν δὴ καὶ κατὰ τὸ τῆς ὑφαντικῆς παράδειγμα
βουλοίμεθ' ἂν ἐπεξελθεῖν αὐτὴν νῦν, ὅτε καὶ πάντα τὰ γένη
τὰ κατὰ πόλιν δῆλα ἡμῖν γέγονε;
Str.Shall we then proceed to discuss it after the model supplied by weaving, now that all the classes in the state have been made plain to us?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Καὶ σφόδρα γε.
Y. Soc.By all means.
306a ΞΕ.Τὴν δὴ βασιλικὴν συμπλοκήν, ὡς ἔοικε, λεκτέον
ποία τέ ἐστι καὶ τίνι τρόπῳ συμπλέκουσα ποῖον ἡμῖν
ὕφασμα ἀποδίδωσιν.
Str.Then the kingly process of weaving must be described, its nature, the manner in which it combines the threads, and the kind of web it produces.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Δῆλον.
Y. Soc.Evidently.
ΞΕ.Ἦ χαλεπὸν ἐνδείξασθαι πρᾶγμα ἀναγκαῖον ἄρα
γέγονεν, ὡς φαίνεται.
Str.It has, apparently, become necessary, after all, to explain a difficult matter.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πάντως γε μὴν ῥητέον.
Y. Soc.But certainly the explanation must be made.
ΞΕ.Τὸ γὰρ ἀρετῆς μέρος ἀρετῆς εἴδει διάφορον εἶναί
τινα τρόπον τοῖς περὶ λόγους ἀμφισβητητικοῖς καὶ μάλ'
εὐεπίθετον πρὸς τὰς τῶν πολλῶν δόξας.
Str.It is difficult, for the assertion that one part of virtue is in a way at variance with another sort of virtue may very easily be assailed by those who appeal to popular opinion in contentious arguments.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Οὐκ ἔμαθον.
Y. Soc.I do not understand.
ΞΕ.Ἀλλ' ὧδε πάλιν. ἀνδρείαν γὰρ οἶμαί σε ἡγεῖσθαι
306b μέρος ἓν ἀρετῆς ἡμῖν εἶναι.
Str.I will say it again in another way. I suppose you believe that courage is one part of virtue.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πάνυ γε.
Y. Soc.Certainly.
ΞΕ.Καὶ μὴν σωφροσύνην γε ἀνδρείας μὲν ἕτερον, ἓν δ'
οὖν καὶ τοῦτο μόριον ἧς κἀκεῖνο.
Str.And, of course, that self-restraint is different from courage, but is also a part of virtue of which courage is a part.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ναί.
Y. Soc.Yes.
ΞΕ.Τούτων δὴ πέρι θαυμαστόν τινα λόγον ἀποφαίνεσθαι
τολμητέον.
Str.Now I must venture to utter a strange doctrine about them.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ποῖον;
Y. Soc.What is it?
ΞΕ.Ὡς ἐστὸν κατὰ δή τινα τρόπον εὖ μάλα πρὸς ἀλλήλας
ἔχθραν καὶ στάσιν ἐναντίαν ἔχοντε ἐν πολλοῖς τῶν
ὄντων.
Str.That, in a way, they are in a condition of great hostility and opposition to each other in many beings.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς λέγεις;
Y. Soc.What do you mean?
ΞΕ.Οὐκ εἰωθότα λόγον οὐδαμῶς· πάντα γὰρ οὖν δὴ
306c ἀλλήλοις τά γε τῆς ἀρετῆς μόρια λέγεταί που φίλια.
Str.Something quite unusual; for, you know, all the parts of virtue are usually said to be friendly to one another.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ναί.
Y. Soc.Yes.
ΞΕ.Σκοπῶμεν δὴ προσσχόντες τὸν νοῦν εὖ μάλα πότερον
οὕτως ἁπλοῦν ἐστι τοῦτο, ἢ παντὸς μᾶλλον αὐτῶν ἔχει
διαφορὰν τοῖς συγγενέσιν ἔς τι;
Str.Now shall we pay careful attention and see whether this is so simple, or, quite the contrary, there is in some respects a variance between them and their kin?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ναί, λέγοις ἂν πῇ σκεπτέον.
Y. Soc.Yes; please tell how we shall investigate the question.
ΞΕ.Ἐν τοῖς σύμπασι χρὴ ζητεῖν ὅσα καλὰ μὲν λέγομεν,
εἰς δύο δὲ αὐτὰ τίθεμεν ἐναντία ἀλλήλων εἴδη.
Str.Among all the parts we must look for those which we call excellent but place in two opposite classes.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Λέγ' ἔτι σαφέστερον.
Y. Soc.Say more clearly what you mean.
ΞΕ.Ὀξύτητα καὶ τάχος, εἴτε κατὰ σώματα εἴτ' ἐν
306d ψυχαῖς εἴτε κατὰ φωνῆς φοράν, εἴτε αὐτῶν τούτων εἴτε ἐν
εἰδώλοις ὄντων, ὁπόσα μουσικὴ μιμουμένη καὶ ἔτι γραφικὴ
μιμήματα παρέχεται, τούτων τινὸς ἐπαινέτης εἴτε αὐτὸς
πώποτε γέγονας εἴτε ἄλλου παρὼν ἐπαινοῦντος ᾔσθησαι;
Str.Acuteness and quickness, whether in body or soul or vocal utterance, whether they are real or exist in such likenesses as music and graphic art produce in imitation of them—have you never yourself praised one of them or heard them praised by others?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τί μήν;
Y. Soc.Yes, of course.
ΞΕ.Ἦ καὶ μνήμην ἔχεις ὅντινα τρόπον αὐτὸ δρῶσιν ἐν
ἑκάστοις τούτων;
Str.And do you remember in what way they praise them as occasion offers?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Οὐδαμῶς.
Y. Soc.Not in the least.
ΞΕ.Ἆρ' οὖν δυνατὸς αὐτὸ ἂν γενοίμην, ὥσπερ καὶ
διανοοῦμαι, διὰ λόγων ἐνδείξασθαί σοι;
Str.I wonder if I can express to you in words what I have in mind.
306e ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τί δ' οὔ;
Y. Soc.Why not?
ΞΕ.Ῥᾴδιον ἔοικας ἡγεῖσθαι τὸ τοιοῦτον· σκοπώμεθα δ'
οὖν αὐτὸ ἐν τοῖς ὑπεναντίοις γένεσι. τῶν γὰρ δὴ πράξεων
ἐν πολλαῖς καὶ πολλάκις ἑκάστοτε τάχος καὶ σφοδρότητα
καὶ ὀξύτητα διανοήσεώς τε καὶ σώματος, ἔτι δὲ καὶ φωνῆς,
ὅταν ἀγασθῶμεν, λέγομεν αὐτὸ ἐπαινοῦντες μιᾷ χρώμενοι
προσρήσει τῇ τῆς ἀνδρείας.
Str.You seem to think that is an easy thing to do. However, let us consider the matter as it appears in the opposite classes. For example, when we admire, as we frequently do in many actions, quickness and energy and acuteness of mind or body or even of voice, we express our praise of them by one word, courage.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς;
Y. Soc.How so?
ΞΕ.Ὀξὺ καὶ ἀνδρεῖον πρῶτόν πού φαμεν, καὶ ταχὺ καὶ
ἀνδρικόν, καὶ σφοδρὸν ὡσαύτως· καὶ πάντως ἐπιφέροντες
τοὔνομα ὃ λέγω κοινὸν πάσαις ταῖς φύσεσι ταύταις ἐπαινοῦμεν
αὐτάς.
Str.We say acute and courageous in the first instance, also quick and courageous, and energetic and courageous; and when we apply this word as a common term applicable to all persons and actions of this class, we praise them.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ναί.
Y. Soc.Yes, we do.
307a ΞΕ.Τί δέ; τὸ τῆς ἠρεμαίας αὖ γενέσεως εἶδος ἆρ' οὐ
πολλάκις ἐπῃνέκαμεν ἐν πολλαῖς τῶν πράξεων;
Str.But do we not also praise the gentle type of movement in many actions?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Καὶ σφόδρα γε.
Y. Soc.We do, decidedly.
ΞΕ.Μῶν οὖν οὐ τἀναντία λέγοντες ἢ περὶ ἐκείνων
τοῦτο φθεγγόμεθα;
Str.And in doing so, do we not say the opposite of what we said about the other class?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς;
Y. Soc.How is that?
ΞΕ.Ὡς ἡσυχαῖά πού φαμεν ἑκάστοτε καὶ σωφρονικά,
περί τε διάνοιαν πραττόμενα ἀγασθέντες καὶ κατὰ τὰς
πράξεις αὖ βραδέα καὶ μαλακά, καὶ ἔτι περὶ φωνὰς γιγνόμενα
λεῖα καὶ βαρέα, καὶ πᾶσαν ῥυθμικὴν κίνησιν καὶ ὅλην
307b μοῦσαν ἐν καιρῷ βραδυτῆτι προσχρωμένην, οὐ τὸ τῆς
ἀνδρείας ἀλλὰ τὸ τῆς κοσμιότητος ὄνομα ἐπιφέρομεν αὐτοῖς
σύμπασιν.
Str.We are always saying How quiet! and How restrained! when we are admiring the workings of the mind, and again we speak of actions as slow and gentle, of the voice as smooth and deep, and of every rhythmic motion and of music in general as having appropriate slowness; and we apply to them all the term which signifies, not courage, but decorum.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ἀληθέστατα.
Y. Soc.Very true.
ΞΕ.Καὶ μὴν ὁπόταν αὖ γε ἀμφότερα γίγνηται ταῦθ'
ἡμῖν ἄκαιρα, μεταβάλλοντες ἑκάτερα αὐτῶν ψέγομεν ἐπὶ
τἀναντία πάλιν ἀπονέμοντες τοῖς ὀνόμασιν.
Str.And again, on the other hand, when these two classes seem to us out of place, we change our attitude and blame them each in turn; then we use the terms in the opposite sense.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς;
Y. Soc.How is that?
ΞΕ.Ὀξύτερα μὲν αὐτὰ γιγνόμενα τοῦ καιροῦ καὶ θάττω
καὶ σκληρότερα φαινόμενα [καὶ] ὑβριστικὰ καὶ μανικὰ λέγοντες,
307c τὰ δὲ βαρύτερα καὶ βραδύτερα καὶ μαλακώτερα δειλὰ
καὶ βλακικά· καὶ σχεδὸν ὡς τὸ πολὺ ταῦτά τε καὶ τὴν
σώφρονα φύσιν καὶ τὴν ἀνδρείαν τὴν τῶν ἐναντίων, οἷον
πολεμίαν διαλαχούσας στάσιν ἰδέας, οὔτ' ἀλλήλαις μειγνυμένας
ἐφευρίσκομεν ἐν ταῖς περὶ τὰ τοιαῦτα πράξεσιν, ἔτι τε
τοὺς ἐν ταῖς ψυχαῖς αὐτὰς ἴσχοντας διαφερομένους ἀλλήλοις
ὀψόμεθα ἐὰν μεταδιώκωμεν.
Str.Why, whatsoever is sharper than the occasion warrants, or seems to be too quick or too hard, is called violent or mad, and whatever is too heavy or slow or gentle, is called cowardly and sluggish; and almost always we find that the restraint of one class of qualities and the courage of the opposite class, like two parties arrayed in hostility to each other, do not mix with each other in the actions that are concerned with such qualities. Moreover, if we pursue the inquiry, we shall see that the men who have these qualities in their souls are at variance with one another.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ποῦ δὴ λέγεις;
Y. Soc.In what do you mean that they are at variance?
ΞΕ.Ἐν πᾶσί τε δὴ τούτοις οἷς νῦν εἴπομεν, ὡς εἰκός
307d τε ἐν ἑτέροις πολλοῖς. κατὰ γὰρ οἶμαι τὴν αὑτῶν ἑκατέροις
συγγένειαν τὰ μὲν ἐπαινοῦντες ὡς οἰκεῖα σφέτερα, τὰ δὲ
τῶν διαφόρων ψέγοντες ὡς ἀλλότρια, πολλὴν εἰς ἔχθραν
ἀλλήλοις καὶ πολλῶν πέρι καθίστανται.
Str.In all those points which we just mentioned, and probably in many others. For men who are akin to each class, I imagine, praise some qualities as their own and find fault with those of their opposites as alien to themselves, and thus great enmity arises between them on many grounds.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Κινδυνεύουσιν.
Y. Soc.Yes, that is likely to be the case.
ΞΕ.Παιδιὰ τοίνυν αὕτη γέ τις ἡ διαφορὰ τούτων ἐστὶ
τῶν εἰδῶν· περὶ δὲ τὰ μέγιστα νόσος συμβαίνει πασῶν
ἐχθίστη γίγνεσθαι ταῖς πόλεσιν.
Str.Now this opposition of these two classes is mere child’s play but when it affects the most important matters it becomes a most detestable disease in the state.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Περὶ δὴ ποῖα φῄς;
Y. Soc.What matters does it affect?
307e ΞΕ.Περὶ ὅλην, ὥς γε εἰκός, τὴν τοῦ ζῆν παρασκευήν.
οἱ μὲν γὰρ δὴ διαφερόντως ὄντες κόσμιοι τὸν ἥσυχον ἀεὶ
βίον ἕτοιμοι ζῆν, αὐτοὶ καθ' αὑτοὺς μόνοι τὰ σφέτερα αὐτῶν
πράττοντες, οἴκοι τε αὖ πρὸς ἅπαντας οὕτως ὁμιλοῦντες, καὶ
πρὸς τὰς ἔξωθεν πόλεις ὡσαύτως ἕτοιμοι πάντα ὄντες
τρόπον τινὰ ἄγειν εἰρήνην· καὶ διὰ τὸν ἔρωτα δὴ τοῦτον
ἀκαιρότερον ὄντα ἢ χρή, ὅταν ἃ βούλονται πράττωσιν,
ἔλαθον αὐτοί τε ἀπολέμως ἴσχοντες καὶ τοὺς νέους ὡσαύτως
διατιθέντες, ὄντες τε ἀεὶ τῶν ἐπιτιθεμένων, ἐξ ὧν
οὐκ ἐν πολλοῖς ἔτεσιν αὐτοὶ καὶ παῖδες καὶ σύμπασα ἡ
308a πόλις ἀντ' ἐλευθέρων πολλάκις ἔλαθον αὑτοὺς γενόμενοι
δοῦλοι.
Str.The whole course of life, in all probability. For those who are especially decorous are ready to live always a quiet and retired life and to mind their own business; this is the manner of their intercourse with every one at home, and they are equally ready at all times to keep peace in some way or other with foreign states. And because of this desire of theirs, which is often inopportune and excessive, when they have their own way they quite unconsciously become unwarlike, and they make the young men unwarlike also; they are at the mercy of aggressors; and thus in a few years they and their children and the whole state often pass by imperceptible degrees from freedom to slavery.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Χαλεπὸν εἶπες καὶ δεινὸν πάθος.
Y. Soc.That is a hard and terrible experience.
ΞΕ.Τί δ' οἱ πρὸς τὴν ἀνδρείαν μᾶλλον ῥέποντες; ἆρ'
οὐκ ἐπὶ πόλεμον ἀεί τινα τὰς αὑτῶν συντείνοντες πόλεις
διὰ τὴν τοῦ τοιούτου βίου σφοδροτέραν τοῦ δέοντος ἐπιθυμίαν
εἰς ἔχθραν πολλοῖς καὶ δυνατοῖς καταστάντες ἢ πάμπαν
διώλεσαν ἢ δούλας αὖ καὶ ὑποχειρίους τοῖς ἐχθροῖς ὑπέθεσαν
τὰς αὑτῶν πατρίδας;
Str.But how about those who incline towards courage? Do they not constantly urge their countries to war, because of their excessive desire for a warlike life? Do they not involve them in hostilities with many powerful opponents and either utterly destroy their native lands or enslave and subject them to their foes?
308b ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ἔστι καὶ ταῦτα.
Y. Soc.Yes, that is true, too.
ΞΕ.Πῶς οὖν μὴ φῶμεν ἐν τούτοις ἀμφότερα ταῦτα τὰ
γένη πολλὴν πρὸς ἄλληλα ἀεὶ καὶ τὴν μεγίστην ἴσχειν
ἔχθραν καὶ στάσιν;
Str.Then in these examples how can we deny that these two classes are always filled with the greatest hostility and opposition to one another?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Οὐδαμῶς ὡς οὐ φήσομεν.
Y. Soc.We certainly cannot deny it.
ΞΕ.Οὐκοῦν ὅπερ ἐπεσκοποῦμεν κατ' ἀρχὰς ἀνηυρήκαμεν,
ὅτι μόρια ἀρετῆς οὐ σμικρὰ ἀλλήλοις διαφέρεσθον φύσει καὶ
δὴ καὶ τοὺς ἴσχοντας δρᾶτον τὸ αὐτὸ τοῦτο;
Str.Have we not, then, found just what we had in view in the beginning, that important parts of virtue are by nature at variance with one another and also that the persons who possess them exhibit the same opposition?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Κινδυνεύετον.
Y. Soc.Yes, I suppose that is true.
ΞΕ.Τόδε τοίνυν αὖ λάβωμεν.
Str.Let us then take up another question.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τὸ ποῖον;
Y. Soc.What question?
308c ΞΕ.Εἴ τίς που τῶν συνθετικῶν ἐπιστημῶν πρᾶγμα
ὁτιοῦν τῶν αὑτῆς ἔργων, κἂν εἰ τὸ φαυλότατον, ἑκοῦσα ἐκ
μοχθηρῶν καὶ χρηστῶν τινων συνίστησιν, ἢ πᾶσα ἐπιστήμη
πανταχοῦ τὰ μὲν μοχθηρὰ εἰς δύναμιν ἀποβάλλει, τὰ δὲ
ἐπιτήδεια καὶ [τὰ] χρηστὰ ἔλαβεν, ἐκ τούτων δὲ καὶ ὁμοίων
καὶ ἀνομοίων ὄντων, πάντα εἰς ἓν αὐτὰ συνάγουσα, μίαν
τινὰ δύναμιν καὶ ἰδέαν δημιουργεῖ.
Str.Whether any constructive science voluntarily composes any, even the most worthless, of its works out of good and bad materials, or every science invariably rejects the bad, so far as possible, taking only the materials which are good and fitting, out of which, whether they be like or unlike, it gathers all elements together and produces one form or value.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τί μήν;
Y. Soc.The latter, of course.
308d ΞΕ.Οὐδ' ἄρα ἡ κατὰ φύσιν ἀληθῶς οὖσα ἡμῖν πολιτικὴ
μή ποτε ἐκ χρηστῶν καὶ κακῶν ἀνθρώπων ἑκοῦσα εἶναι
συστήσηται πόλιν τινά, ἀλλ' εὔδηλον ὅτι παιδιᾷ πρῶτον
βασανιεῖ, μετὰ δὲ τὴν βάσανον αὖ τοῖς δυναμένοις παιδεύειν
καὶ ὑπηρετεῖν πρὸς τοῦτ' αὐτὸ παραδώσει, προστάττουσα
καὶ ἐπιστατοῦσα αὐτή, καθάπερ ὑφαντικὴ τοῖς τε ξαίνουσι
καὶ τοῖς τἆλλα προπαρασκευάζουσιν ὅσα πρὸς τὴν πλέξιν
αὐτῆς συμπαρακολουθοῦσα προστάττει καὶ ἐπιστατεῖ, τοιαῦτα
308e ἑκάστοις ἐνδεικνῦσα τὰ ἔργα ἀποτελεῖν οἷα ἂν ἐπιτήδεια
ἡγῆται πρὸς τὴν αὑτῆς εἶναι συμπλοκήν.
Str.Then neither will the true natural art of statecraft ever voluntarily compose a state of good and bad men; but obviously it will first test them in play, and after the test will entrust them in turn to those who are able to teach and help them to attain the end in view; it will itself give orders and exercise supervision, just as the art of weaving constantly commands and supervises the carders and others who prepare the materials for its web, directing each person to do the tasks which it thinks are requisite for its fabric.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πάνυ μὲν οὖν.
Y. Soc.Certainly.
ΞΕ.Ταὐτὸν δή μοι τοῦθ' ἡ βασιλικὴ φαίνεται πᾶσι
τοῖς κατὰ νόμον παιδευταῖς καὶ τροφεῦσιν, τὴν τῆς ἐπιστατικῆς
αὐτὴ δύναμιν ἔχουσα, οὐκ ἐπιτρέψειν ἀσκεῖν ὅτι μή τις
πρὸς τὴν αὑτῆς σύγκρασιν ἀπεργαζόμενος ἦθός τι πρέπον
ἀποτελεῖ, ταῦτα δὲ μόνα παρακελεύεσθαι παιδεύειν· καὶ
τοὺς μὲν μὴ δυναμένους κοινωνεῖν ἤθους ἀνδρείου καὶ σώφρονος
ὅσα τε ἄλλα ἐστὶ τείνοντα πρὸς ἀρετήν, ἀλλ' εἰς
309a ἀθεότητα καὶ ὕβριν καὶ ἀδικίαν ὑπὸ κακῆς βίᾳ φύσεως
ἀπωθουμένους, θανάτοις τε ἐκβάλλει καὶ φυγαῖς καὶ ταῖς
μεγίσταις κολάζουσα ἀτιμίαις.
Str.In the same way I think the kingly art, keeping for itself the function of supervision, will not allow the duly appointed teachers and foster fathers to give any training, unless they can thereby produce characters suitable to the constitution it is creating, but in these things only it exhorts them to give instruction. And those men who have no capacity for courage and self-restraint and the other qualities which tend towards virtue, but by the force of an evil nature are carried away into godlessness, violence, and injustice, it removes by inflicting upon them the punishments of death and exile and deprivation of the most important civic rights.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Λέγεται γοῦν πως οὕτως.
Y. Soc.That is about what people say, at any rate.
ΞΕ.Τοὺς δὲ ἐν ἀμαθίᾳ τε αὖ καὶ ταπεινότητι πολλῇ
κυλινδουμένους εἰς τὸ δουλικὸν ὑποζεύγνυσι γένος.
Str.And those in turn who wallow in ignorance and craven humility it places under the yoke of slavery.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ὀρθότατα.
Y. Soc.Quite right.
ΞΕ.Τοὺς λοιποὺς τοίνυν, ὅσων αἱ φύσεις ἐπὶ τὸ γενναῖον
309b ἱκαναὶ παιδείας τυγχάνουσαι καθίστασθαι καὶ δέξασθαι
μετὰ τέχνης σύμμειξιν πρὸς ἀλλήλας, τούτων τὰς μὲν ἐπὶ
τὴν ἀνδρείαν μᾶλλον συντεινούσας, οἷον στημονοφυὲς νομίσασ'
αὐτῶν εἶναι τὸ στερεὸν ἦθος, τὰς δὲ ἐπὶ τὸ κόσμιον
πίονί τε καὶ μαλακῷ καὶ κατὰ τὴν εἰκόνα κροκώδει διανήματι
προσχρωμένας, ἐναντία δὲ τεινούσας ἀλλήλαις, πειρᾶται
τοιόνδε τινὰ τρόπον συνδεῖν καὶ συμπλέκειν.
Str.As for the rest of the people, those whose natures are capable, if they get education, of being made into something fine and noble and of uniting with each other as art requires, the kingly art takes those natures which tend more towards courage, considering that their character is sturdier, like the warp in weaving, and those which incline towards decorum, for these, to continue the simile, are spun thick and soft like the threads of the woof, and tries to combine these natures of opposite tendencies and weave them together in the following manner.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ποῖον δή;
Y. Soc.In what manner?
309c ΞΕ.Πρῶτον μὲν κατὰ τὸ συγγενὲς τὸ ἀειγενὲς ὂν τῆς
ψυχῆς αὐτῶν μέρος θείῳ συναρμοσαμένη δεσμῷ, μετὰ δὲ τὸ
θεῖον τὸ ζῳογενὲς αὐτῶν αὖθις ἀνθρωπίνοις.
Str.First it binds the eternal part of their souls with a divine bond, to which that part is akin, and after the divine it binds the animal part of them with human bonds.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς τοῦτ' εἶπες αὖ;
Y. Soc.Again I ask What do you mean?
ΞΕ.Τὴν τῶν καλῶν καὶ δικαίων πέρι καὶ ἀγαθῶν καὶ
τῶν τούτοις ἐναντίων ὄντως οὖσαν ἀληθῆ δόξαν μετὰ βεβαιώσεως,
ὁπόταν ἐν [ταῖς] ψυχαῖς ἐγγίγνηται, θείαν φημὶ ἐν
δαιμονίῳ γίγνεσθαι γένει.
Str.I mean that really true and assured opinion about honor, justice, goodness and their opposites is divine, and when it arises in men’s souls, it arises in a godlike race.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πρέπει γοῦν οὕτω.
Y. Soc.That would be fitting, at any rate.
309d ΞΕ.Τὸν δὴ πολιτικὸν καὶ τὸν ἀγαθὸν νομοθέτην ἆρ'
ἴσμεν ὅτι προσήκει μόνον δυνατὸν εἶναι τῇ τῆς βασιλικῆς
μούσῃ τοῦτο αὐτὸ ἐμποιεῖν τοῖς ὀρθῶς μεταλαβοῦσι παιδείας,
οὓς ἐλέγομεν νυνδή;
Str.Do we not know, then, that the statesman and good lawgiver is the only one to whom the power properly belongs, by the inspiration of the kingly art, to implant this true opinion in those who have rightly received education, those of whom we were just now speaking?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τὸ γοῦν εἰκός.
Y. Soc.Well, probably.
ΞΕ.Ὃς δ' ἂν δρᾶν γε, ὦ Σώκρατες, ἀδυνατῇ τὸ τοιοῦτον,
μηδέποτε τοῖς νῦν ζητουμένοις ὀνόμασιν αὐτὸν προςαγορεύωμεν.
Str.And let us never, Socrates, call him who has not such power by the names we are now examining.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ὀρθότατα.
Y. Soc.Quite right.
ΞΕ.Τί οὖν; ἀνδρεία ψυχὴ λαμβανομένη τῆς τοιαύτης
309e ἀληθείας ἆρ' οὐχ ἡμεροῦται καὶ τῶν δικαίων μάλιστα οὕτω
κοινωνεῖν ἂν ἐθελήσειεν, μὴ μεταλαβοῦσα δὲ ἀποκλινεῖ
μᾶλλον πρὸς θηριώδη τινὰ φύσιν;
Str.Now is not a courageous soul, when it lays hold upon such truth, made gentle, and would it not then be most ready to partake of justice? And without it, does it not incline more towards brutality?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς δ' οὔ;
Y. Soc.Yes, of course.
ΞΕ.Τί δὲ τὸ τῆς κοσμίας φύσεως; ἆρ' οὐ τούτων μὲν
μεταλαβὸν τῶν δοξῶν ὄντως σῶφρον καὶ φρόνιμον, ὥς γε ἐν
πολιτείᾳ, γίγνεται, μὴ κοινωνῆσαν δὲ ὧν λέγομεν ἐπονείδιστόν
τινα εὐηθείας δικαιότατα λαμβάνει φήμην;
Str.And again if the decorous nature partakes of these opinions, does it not become truly self-restrained and wise, so far as the state is concerned, and if it lacks participation in such qualities, does it not very justly receive the shameful epithet of simpleton?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πάνυ μὲν οὖν.
Y. Soc.Certainly.
ΞΕ.Οὐκοῦν συμπλοκὴν καὶ δεσμὸν τοῦτον τοῖς μὲν
κακοῖς πρὸς σφᾶς αὐτοὺς καὶ τοῖς ἀγαθοῖς πρὸς τοὺς κακοὺς
μηδέποτε μόνιμον φῶμεν γίγνεσθαι, μηδέ τινα ἐπιστήμην
αὐτῷ σπουδῇ πρὸς τοὺς τοιούτους ἂν χρῆσθαί ποτε;
Str.Then can we say that such interweaving and binding together of the bad with the bad or of the good with the bad ever becomes enduring, or that any science would ever seriously make use of it in uniting such persons?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς γάρ;
Y. Soc.Of course not.
310a ΞΕ.Τοῖς δ' εὐγενέσι γενομένοις τε ἐξ ἀρχῆς ἤθεσι
θρεφθεῖσί τε κατὰ φύσιν μόνοις διὰ νόμων ἐμφύεσθαι, καὶ
ἐπὶ τούτοις δὴ τοῦτ' εἶναι τέχνῃ φάρμακον, καὶ καθάπερ
εἴπομεν τοῦτον θειότερον εἶναι τὸν σύνδεσμον ἀρετῆς μερῶν
φύσεως ἀνομοίων καὶ ἐπὶ τὰ ἐναντία φερομένων.
Str.But we may say that in those only who were of noble nature from their birth and have been nurtured as befits such natures it is implanted by the laws, and for them this is the medicine prescribed by science, and, as we said before, this bond which unites unlike and divergent parts of virtue is more divine.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Ἀληθέστατα.
Y. Soc.Very true.
ΞΕ.Τοὺς μὴν λοιπούς, ὄντας ἀνθρωπίνους δεσμούς,
ὑπάρχοντος τούτου τοῦ θείου σχεδὸν οὐδὲν χαλεπὸν οὔτε
ἐννοεῖν οὔτε ἐννοήσαντα ἀποτελεῖν.
Str.The remaining bonds, moreover, being human, are not very difficult to devise or, after one has devised them, to create, when once this divine bond exists.
310b ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς δή, καὶ τίνας;
Y. Soc.How so? And what are the bonds?
ΞΕ.Τοὺς τῶν ἐπιγαμιῶν καὶ παίδων κοινωνήσεων καὶ
τῶν περὶ τὰς ἰδίας ἐκδόσεις καὶ γάμους. οἱ γὰρ πολλοὶ τὰ
περὶ ταῦτα οὐκ ὀρθῶς συνδοῦνται πρὸς τὴν τῶν παίδων
γέννησιν.
Str.Those made between states concerning intermarriages and the sharing of children by adoption, and those relating to portionings and marriages within the state. For most people make such bonds without proper regard to the procreation of children.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Τί δή;
Y. Soc.How is that?
ΞΕ.Τὰ μὲν πλούτου καὶ δυνάμεων ἐν τοῖς τοιούτοις
διώγματα τί καί τις ἂν ὡς ἄξια λόγου σπουδάζοι μεμφόμενος;
Str.The pursuit of wealth or power in connection with matrimony—but why should anyone ever take the trouble to blame it, as though it were worth arguing about?
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Οὐδέν.
Y. Soc.There is no reason for doing so.
ΞΕ.Μᾶλλον δέ γε δίκαιον τῶν περὶ τὰ γένη ποιουμένων
310c ἐπιμέλειαν τούτων πέρι λέγειν, εἴ τι μὴ κατὰ τρόπον πράττουσιν.
Str.We have better cause, however, to speak our minds about those whose chief care is the family, in case their conduct is not what it should be.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Εἰκὸς γὰρ οὖν.
Y. Soc.Yes; very likely.
ΞΕ.Πράττουσι μὲν δὴ οὐδ' ἐξ ἑνὸς ὀρθοῦ λόγου, τὴν ἐν
τῷ παραχρῆμα διώκοντες ῥᾳστώνην καὶ τῷ τοὺς μὲν προςομοίους
αὐτοῖς ἀσπάζεσθαι, τοὺς δ' ἀνομοίους μὴ στέργειν,
πλεῖστον τῇ δυσχερείᾳ μέρος ἀπονέμοντες.
Str.The fact is, they act on no right theory at all; they seek their ease for the moment; welcoming gladly those who are like themselves, and finding those who are unlike them unendurable, they give the greatest weight to their feeling of dislike.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς;
Y. Soc.How so?
ΞΕ.Οἱ μέν που κόσμιοι τὸ σφέτερον αὐτῶν ἦθος ζητοῦσι,
καὶ κατὰ δύναμιν γαμοῦσί τε παρὰ τούτων καὶ τὰς
310d ἐκδιδομένας παρ' αὑτῶν εἰς τούτους ἐκπέμπουσι πάλιν· ὡς
δ' αὕτως τὸ περὶ τὴν ἀνδρείαν γένος δρᾷ, τὴν αὑτοῦ μεταδιῶκον
φύσιν, δέον ποιεῖν ἀμφότερα τὰ γένη τούτων τοὐναντίον
ἅπαν.
Str.The decorous people seek for characters like their own; so far as they can they marry wives of that sort and in turn give their daughters in marriage to men of that sort; and the courageous do the same, eagerly seeking natures of their own kind, whereas both classes ought to do quite the opposite.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς, καὶ διὰ τί;
Y. Soc.How so, and why?
ΞΕ.Διότι πέφυκεν ἀνδρεία τε ἐν πολλαῖς γενέσεσιν
ἄμεικτος γεννωμένη σώφρονι φύσει κατὰ μὲν ἀρχὰς ἀκμάζειν
ῥώμῃ, τελευτῶσα δὲ ἐξανθεῖν παντάπασι μανίαις.
Str.Because in the nature of things courage, if propagated through many generations with no admixture of a self-restrained nature, though at first it is strong and flourishing, in the end blossoms forth in utter madness.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Εἰκός.
Y. Soc.That is likely.
ΞΕ.Ἡ δὲ αἰδοῦς γε αὖ λίαν πλήρης ψυχὴ καὶ ἀκέραστος
310e τόλμης ἀνδρείας, ἐπὶ δὲ γενεὰς πολλὰς οὕτω γεννηθεῖσα,
νωθεστέρα φύεσθαι τοῦ καιροῦ καὶ ἀποτελευτῶσα δὴ
παντάπασιν ἀναπηροῦσθαι.
Str.But the soul, on the other hand, that is too full of modesty and contains no alloy of courage or boldness, after many generations of the same kind becomes too sluggish and finally is utterly crippled.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Καὶ τοῦτ' εἰκὸς οὕτω συμβαίνειν.
Y. Soc.That also is likely to happen.
ΞΕ.Τούτους δὴ τοὺς δεσμοὺς ἔλεγον ὅτι χαλεπὸν
οὐδὲν συνδεῖν ὑπάρξαντος τοῦ περὶ τὰ καλὰ κἀγαθὰ μίαν
ἔχειν ἀμφότερα τὰ γένη δόξαν. τοῦτο γὰρ ἓν καὶ ὅλον
ἐστὶ βασιλικῆς συνυφάνσεως ἔργον, μηδέποτε ἐᾶν ἀφίστασθαι
σώφρονα ἀπὸ τῶν ἀνδρείων ἤθη, συγκερκίζοντα δὲ
ὁμοδοξίαις καὶ τιμαῖς καὶ ἀτιμίαις καὶ δόξαις καὶ ὁμηρειῶν
ἐκδόσεσιν εἰς ἀλλήλους, λεῖον καὶ τὸ λεγόμενον εὐήτριον
311a ὕφασμα συνάγοντα ἐξ αὐτῶν, τὰς ἐν ταῖς πόλεσιν ἀρχὰς
ἀεὶ κοινῇ τούτοις ἐπιτρέπειν.
Str.It was these bonds, then, that I said there was no difficulty in creating, provided that both classes have one and the same opinion about the honorable and the good. For indeed the whole business of the kingly weaving is comprised in this and this alone,—in never allowing the self-restrained characters to be separated from the courageous, but in weaving them together by common beliefs and honors and dishonors and opinions and interchanges of pledges, thus making of them a smooth and, as we say, well-woven fabric, and then entrusting to them in common for ever the offices of the state.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς;
Y. Soc.How is that to be done?
ΞΕ.Οὗ μὲν ἂν ἑνὸς ἄρχοντος χρεία συμβαίνῃ, τὸν
ταῦτα ἀμφότερα ἔχοντα αἱρούμενον ἐπιστάτην· οὗ δ' ἂν
πλειόνων, τούτων μέρος ἑκατέρων συμμειγνύντα. τὰ μὲν
γὰρ σωφρόνων ἀρχόντων ἤθη σφόδρα μὲν εὐλαβῆ καὶ δίκαια
καὶ σωτήρια, δριμύτητος δὲ καί τινος ἰταμότητος ὀξείας καὶ
πρακτικῆς ἐνδεῖται.
Str.When one official is needed, by choosing a president who possesses both qualities; and when a hoard is desired, by combining men of each class. For the characters of self-restrained officials are exceedingly careful and just and conservative, but they lack keenness and a certain quick and active boldness.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Δοκεῖ γοῦν δὴ καὶ τάδε.
Y. Soc.That also seems, at least, to be true.
311b ΞΕ.Τὰ δ' ἀνδρεῖά γε αὖ πρὸς μὲν τὸ δίκαιον καὶ εὐλαβὲς
ἐκείνων ἐπιδεέστερα, τὸ δὲ ἐν ταῖς πράξεσι ἰταμὸν
διαφερόντως ἴσχει. πάντα δὲ καλῶς γίγνεσθαι τὰ περὶ τὰς
πόλεις ἰδίᾳ καὶ δημοσίᾳ τούτοιν μὴ παραγενομένοιν ἀμφοῖν
ἀδύνατον.
Str.The courageous natures, on the other hand, are deficient in justice and caution in comparison with the former, but excel in boldness of action; and unless both these qualities are present it is impossible for a state to be entirely prosperous in public and private matters.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Πῶς γὰρ οὔ;
Y. Soc.Yes, certainly.
ΞΕ.Τοῦτο δὴ τέλος ὑφάσματος εὐθυπλοκίᾳ συμπλακὲν
γίγνεσθαι φῶμεν πολιτικῆς πράξεως τὸ τῶν ἀνδρείων καὶ
σωφρόνων ἀνθρώπων ἦθος, ὁπόταν ὁμονοίᾳ καὶ φιλίᾳ κοινὸν
311c συναγαγοῦσα αὐτῶν τὸν βίον ἡ βασιλικὴ τέχνη, πάντων
μεγαλοπρεπέστατον ὑφασμάτων καὶ ἄριστον ἀποτελέσασα
[ὥστ' εἶναι κοινόν] τούς τ' ἄλλους ἐν ταῖς πόλεσι πάντας
δούλους καὶ ἐλευθέρους ἀμπίσχουσα, συνέχῃ τούτῳ τῷ πλέγματι,
καὶ καθ' ὅσον εὐδαίμονι προσήκει γίγνεσθαι πόλει
τούτου μηδαμῇ μηδὲν ἐλλείπουσα ἄρχῃ τε καὶ ἐπιστατῇ.
Str.This, then, is the end, let us declare, of the web of the statesman’s activity, the direct interweaving of the characters of restrained and courageous men, when the kingly science has drawn them together by friendship and community of sentiment into a common life, and having perfected the most glorious and the best of all textures, clothes with it all the inhabitants of the state, both slaves and freemen, holds them together by this fabric, and omitting nothing which ought to belong to a happy state, rules and watches over them.
ΝΕ. ΣΩ.Κάλλιστα αὖ τὸν βασιλικὸν ἀπετέλεσας ἄνδρα
ἡμῖν, ὦ ξένε, καὶ τὸν πολιτικόν.
Y. Soc.You have given us, Stranger, a most complete and admirable treatment of the king and the statesman.