Burnet (OCT, 1907) · Bury (1926)
Bury (1926)
788a ΑΘ.Γενομένων δὲ παίδων ἀρρένων καὶ θηλειῶν, τροφὴν
μέν που καὶ παιδείαν τὸ μετὰ ταῦτα λέγειν ὀρθότατ' ἂν
γίγνοιθ' ἡμῖν, ἣν εἶναι μὲν ἄρρητον πάντως ἀδύνατον, λεγομένη
δὲ διδαχῇ τινι καὶ νουθετήσει μᾶλλον νόμοις εἰκυῖ'
ἂν ἡμῖν φαίνοιτο. ἰδίᾳ γὰρ καὶ κατ' οἰκίας πολλὰ καὶ
σμικρὰ καὶ οὐκ ἐμφανῆ πᾶσι γιγνόμενα, ῥᾳδίως ὑπὸ τῆς
788b ἑκάστων λύπης τε καὶ ἡδονῆς καὶ ἐπιθυμίας ἕτερα παρὰ
τὰς τοῦ νομοθέτου συμβουλὰς παραγενόμενα, παντοδαπὰ καὶ
οὐχ ὅμοια ἀλλήλοις ἀπεργάζοιτ' ἂν τὰ τῶν πολιτῶν ἤθη.
τοῦτο δὲ κακὸν ταῖς πόλεσιν· καὶ γὰρ διὰ σμικρότητα αὐτῶν
καὶ πυκνότητα ἐπιζήμια τιθέντα ποιεῖν νόμους ἀπρεπὲς ἅμα
καὶ ἄσχημον, διαφθείρει δὲ καὶ τοὺς γραφῇ τεθέντας νόμους,
ἐν τοῖς σμικροῖς καὶ πυκνοῖς ἐθισθέντων τῶν ἀνθρώπων παρανομεῖν.
788c ὥστε ἀπορία μὲν περὶ αὐτὰ νομοθετεῖν, σιγᾶν δὲ
ἀδύνατον. δὲ λέγω, δηλῶσαι πειρατέον οἷον δείγματα
ἐξενεγκόντα εἰς φῶς· νῦν γὰρ λεγομένοις ἔοικε κατά τι
σκότος.
Ath.Now that our children, of both sexes, are born, our proper course will be to deal in the next place with their nurture and education. This is a subject which it is wholly impossible to pass over; but obviously it can be treated more suitably by way of precept and exhortation than by legislation. For in the private life of the family many trivial things are apt to be done which escape general notice,—things which are the result of individual feelings of pain, pleasure, or desire, and which contravene the instructions of the lawgiver; and these will produce in the citizens a multiplicity of contradictory tendencies. This is bad for a State. For while, on the one hand, it is improper and undignified to impose penalties on these practices by law, because of their triviality and the frequency of their occurrence, on the other hand, it detracts from the authority of the law which stands written when men grow used to breaking the law in trivial matters repeatedly. Hence, while it is impossible to pass over these practices in silence, it is difficult to legislate concerning them. The practices I refer to I will try to make clear by bringing some specimens, as it were, to the light; for at present my words rather resemble a dark speech.
ΚΛ.Ἀληθέστατα λέγεις.
Clin.That is quite true.
ΑΘ.Οὐκοῦν ὅτι μὲν σώματα καὶ ψυχὰς τήν γε ὀρθὴν
πάντως δεῖ τροφὴν φαίνεσθαι δυναμένην ὡς κάλλιστα καὶ
ἄριστα ἐξεργάζεσθαι, τοῦτο μὲν ὀρθῶς εἴρηταί που.
Ath.When we said that right nurture must be manifestly capable of making both bodies and souls in all respects as beautiful and good as possible, we spoke, I presume, truly?
ΚΛ.Τί μήν;
Clin.Certainly we did.
788d ΑΘ.Σώματα δὲ κάλλιστα, οἴομαι, τό γε ἁπλούστατον,
ὡς ὀρθότατα δεῖ νέων ὄντων εὐθὺς φύεσθαι τῶν παίδων.
Ath.And I suppose that (to take the simplest point) the most beautiful bodies must grow up from earliest infancy as straight as possible.
ΚΛ.Πάνυ μὲν οὖν.
Clin.Most certainly.
ΑΘ.Τί δέ; τόδε οὐκ ἐννοοῦμεν, ὡς πρώτη βλάστη
παντὸς ζῴου πολὺ μεγίστη καὶ πλείστη φύεται, ὥστε καὶ
ἔριν πολλοῖς παρέσχηκεν μὴ γίγνεσθαι τά γ' ἀνθρώπινα
μήκη διπλάσια ἀπὸ πέντε ἐτῶν ἐν τοῖς λοιποῖς εἴκοσιν ἔτεσιν
αὐξανόμενα;
Ath.Well then, do we not observe that in every living creature the first shoot makes by far the largest and longest growth; so that many people stoutly maintain that in point of height men grow more in the first five years of life than in the next twenty?
ΚΛ.Ἀληθῆ.
Clin.That is true.
ΑΘ.Τί οὖν; πολλὴ αὔξη ὅταν ἐπιρρέῃ πόνων χωρὶς
789a πολλῶν καὶ συμμέτρων, οὐκ ἴσμεν ὅτι μυρία κακὰ ἐν τοῖς
σώμασιν ἀποτελεῖ;
Ath.But we know, don’t we, that when growth occurs rapidly, without plenty of suitable exercise, it produces in the body countless evils?
ΚΛ.Πάνυ γε.
Clin.Certainly.
ΑΘ.Οὐκοῦν τότε δεῖται πλείστων πόνων, ὅταν πλείστη
τροφὴ προσγίγνηται τοῖς σώμασι.
Ath.And when bodies receive most food, then they require most exercise?
ΚΛ.Τί δῆτ', ξένε; τοῖς ἄρτι γεγονόσι καὶ νεωτάτοις
πόνους πλείστους προστάξομεν;
Clin.What is that, Stranger? Are we to prescribe most exercise for new-born babes and tiny infants?
ΑΘ.Οὐδαμῶς γε, ἀλλ' ἔτι καὶ πρότερον τοῖς ἐντὸς τῶν
αὑτῶν μητέρων τρεφομένοις.
Ath.Nay, even earlier than that,—we shall prescribe it for those nourished inside the bodies of their mothers.
ΚΛ.Πῶς λέγεις, λῷστε; τοῖς κυουμένοισι φράζεις;
Clin.What do you mean, my dear sir? Is it unborn babes you are talking of?
789b ΑΘ.Ναί. θαυμαστὸν δ' οὐδέν ἐστιν ἀγνοεῖν ὑμᾶς τὴν
τῶν τηλικούτων γυμναστικήν, ἣν βουλοίμην ἂν ὑμῖν καίπερ
ἄτοπον οὖσαν δηλῶσαι.
Ath.It is. Still it is by no means surprising that you know nothing of this pre-natal gymnastic; but, strange though it is, I should like to explain it to you.
ΚΛ.Πάνυ μὲν οὖν.
Clin.By all means do so.
ΑΘ.Ἔστι τοίνυν παρ' ἡμῖν μᾶλλον τὸ τοιοῦτον κατανοεῖν
διὰ τὸ τὰς παιδιὰς αὐτόθι μειζόνως τινὰς παίζειν
δεῖ· τρέφουσι γὰρ δὴ παρ' ἡμῖν οὐ μόνον παῖδες ἀλλὰ καὶ
πρεσβύτεροί τινες ὀρνίθων θρέμματα, ἐπὶ τὰς μάχας τὰς
πρὸς ἄλληλα. ἀσκοῦντας τὰ τοιαῦτα τῶν θηρίων πολλοῦ
789c δὴ δέουσιν ἡγεῖσθαι τοὺς πόνους αὐτοῖς εἶναι τοὺς πρὸς
ἄλληλα μετρίους, ἐν οἷς αὐτὰ ἀνακινοῦσι γυμνάζοντες· πρὸς
γὰρ τούτοις λαβόντες ὑπὸ μάλης ἕκαστος, τοὺς μὲν ἐλάττονας
εἰς τὰς χεῖρας, μείζους δ' ὑπὸ τὴν ἀγκάλην ἐντός,
πορεύονται περιπατοῦντες σταδίους παμπόλλους ἕνεκα τῆς
εὐεξίας οὔτι τῆς τῶν αὑτῶν σωμάτων, ἀλλὰ τῆς τούτων τῶν
θρεμμάτων, καὶ τό γε τοσοῦτον δηλοῦσι τῷ δυναμένῳ καταμαθεῖν,
789d ὅτι τὰ σώματα πάντα ὑπὸ τῶν σεισμῶν τε καὶ κινήσεων
κινούμενα ἄκοπα ὀνίναται πάντων, ὅσα τε ὑπὸ ἑαυτῶν,
καὶ ἐν αἰώραις καὶ κατὰ θάλατταν, καὶ ἐφ' ἵππων
ὀχουμένων καὶ ὑπ' ἄλλων ὁπωσοῦν δὴ φερομένων τῶν σωμάτων,
κινεῖται, καὶ διὰ ταῦτα τὰς τῶν σίτων τροφὰς καὶ
ποτῶν κατακρατοῦντα, ὑγίειαν καὶ κάλλος καὶ τὴν ἄλλην
ῥώμην ἡμῖν δυνατά ἐστι παραδιδόναι. τί οὖν ἂν φαῖμεν
ἐχόντων οὕτω τούτων τὸ μετὰ τοῦτο ἡμᾶς δεῖν ποιεῖν; βούλεσθε
789e ἅμα γέλωτι φράζωμεν, τιθέντες νόμους τὴν μὲν κύουσαν
περιπατεῖν, τὸ γενόμενον δὲ πλάττειν τε οἷον κήρινον,
ἕως ὑγρόν, καὶ μέχρι δυοῖν ἐτοῖν σπαργανᾶν; καὶ δὴ καὶ
τὰς τροφοὺς ἀναγκάζωμεν νόμῳ ζημιοῦντες τὰ παιδία πρὸς
ἀγροὺς πρὸς ἱερὰ πρὸς οἰκείους ἀεί πῃ φέρειν, μέχριπερ
ἂν ἱκανῶς ἵστασθαι δυνατὰ γίγνηται, καὶ τότε, διευλαβουμένας
ἔτι νέων ὄντων μή πῃ βίᾳ ἐπερειδομένων στρέφηται
τὰ κῶλα, ἐπιπονεῖν φερούσας ἕως ἂν τριετὲς ἀποτελεσθῇ
τὸ γενόμενον; εἰς δύναμιν δὲ ἰσχυρὰς αὐτὰς εἶναι χρεὼν
790a καὶ μὴ μίαν; ἐπὶ δὲ τούτοις ἑκάστοις, ἂν μὴ γίγνηται, ζημίαν
τοῖς μὴ ποιοῦσι γράφωμεν; πολλοῦ γε δεῖ; τὸ γὰρ
ἄρτι ῥηθὲν γίγνοιτ' ἂν πολὺ καὶ ἄφθονον.
Ath.In our country it is easier to understand a practice of this kind, because there are people there who carry their sports to excess. At Athens we find not only boys but sometimes old men rearing birds and training such creatures to fight one another. But they are far from thinking that the training they give them by exciting their pugnacity provides sufficient exercise; in addition to this, each man takes up his bird and keeps it tucked away in his fist, if it is small, or under his arm, if it is large, and in this way they walk many a long mile in order to improve the condition, not of their own bodies, but of these creatures. Thus clearly do they show to any observant person that all bodies benefit, as by a tonic, when they are moved by any kind of shaking or motion, whether they are moved by their own action—as in a swing or in a rowing-boat—or are carried along on horseback or by any other rapidly moving bodies; and that this is the reason why bodies can deal successfully with their supplies of meat and drink and provide us with health and beauty, and strength as well. This being the state of the case, what does it behove us to do in the future? Shall we risk ridicule, and lay down a law that the pregnant woman shall walk, and that the child, while still soft, shall be molded like wax, and be kept in swaddling clothes till it is two years old? And shall we also compel the nurses by legal penalties to keep carrying the children somehow, either to the fields or to the temples or to their relatives, all the time until they are able to stand upright; and after that, still to persevere in carrying them until they are three years old, as a precaution against the danger of distorting their legs by over-pressure while they are still young?

And that the nurses shall be as strong as possible? And shall we impose a written penalty for every failure to carry out these injunctions? Such a course is quite out of the question; for it would lead to a superabundance of that consequence which we mentioned a moment ago.

ΚΛ.Τὸ ποῖον;
Clin.What was that?
ΑΘ.Τὸ γέλωτα ἂν πολὺν ὀφλεῖν ἡμᾶς πρὸς τῷ μὴ
ἐθέλειν ἂν πείθεσθαι γυναικεῖά τε καὶ δούλεια ἤθη τροφῶν.
Ath.The consequence of our incurring ridicule in abundance, in addition to meeting with a blank refusal to obey on the part of the nurses, with their womanish and servile minds.
ΚΛ.Ἀλλὰ τίνος δὴ χάριν ἔφαμεν αὐτὰ δεῖν ῥηθῆναι;
Clin.What reason, then, had we for saying that these rules ought to be stated?
ΑΘ.Τοῦδε· τὰ τῶν δεσποτῶν τε καὶ ἐλευθέρων ἐν ταῖς
790b πόλεσιν ἤθη τάχ' ἂν ἀκούσαντα εἰς σύννοιαν ἀφίκοιτ' ἂν
τὴν ὀρθήν, ὅτι χωρὶς τῆς ἰδίας διοικήσεως ἐν ταῖς πόλεσιν
ὀρθῆς γιγνομένης μάτην ἂν τὰ κοινά τις οἴοιτο ἕξειν τινὰ
βεβαιότητα θέσεως νόμων, καὶ ταῦτα ἐννοῶν, αὐτὸς νόμοις
ἂν τοῖς νῦν ῥηθεῖσιν χρῷτο, καὶ χρώμενος, εὖ τήν τε οἰκίαν
καὶ πόλιν ἅμα τὴν αὑτοῦ διοικῶν, εὐδαιμονοῖ.
Ath.The reason was this: the minds of the masters and of the freemen in the States may perhaps listen, and so come to the right conclusion that, unless private affairs in a State are rightly managed, it is vain to suppose that any stable code of laws can exist for public affairs; and when he perceives this, the individual citizen may of himself adopt as laws the rules we have now stated, and, by so doing and thus ordering aright both his household and his State, may achieve happiness.
ΚΛ.Καὶ μάλ' εἰκότως εἴρηκας.
Clin.Such a result seems quite probable.
ΑΘ.Τοιγαροῦν μήπω λήξωμεν τῆς τοιαύτης νομοθεσίας,
790c πρὶν ἂν καὶ τὰ περὶ τὰς ψυχὰς τῶν πάνυ νέων παίδων ἐπιτηδεύματα
ἀποδῶμεν κατὰ τὸν αὐτὸν τρόπον ὅνπερ ἤργμεθα
τῶν περὶ τὰ σώματα μύθων λεχθέντων διαπεραίνειν.
Ath.Consequently we must not desist from this kind of legislation until we have described in detail the treatment suited for the souls of young children in the same manner as we commenced our advice regarding their bodies.
ΚΛ.Πάνυ μὲν οὖν ὀρθῶς.
Clin.You are quite right.
ΑΘ.Λάβωμεν τοίνυν τοῦτο οἷον στοιχεῖον ἐπ' ἀμφότερα,
σώματός τε καὶ ψυχῆς τῶν πάνυ νέων τὴν τιθήνησιν καὶ
κίνησιν γιγνομένην ὅτι μάλιστα διὰ πάσης τε νυκτὸς καὶ
ἡμέρας, ὡς ἔστι σύμφορος ἅπασι μέν, οὐχ ἥκιστα δὲ τοῖς
ὅτι νεωτάτοισι, καὶ οἰκεῖν, εἰ δυνατὸν ἦν, οἷον ἀεὶ πλέοντας·
790d νῦν δ' ὡς ἐγγύτατα τούτου ποιεῖν δεῖ περὶ τὰ νεογενῆ παίδων
θρέμματα. τεκμαίρεσθαι δὲ χρὴ καὶ ἀπὸ τῶνδε, ὡς ἐξ ἐμπειρίας
αὐτὸ εἰλήφασι καὶ ἐγνώκασιν ὂν χρήσιμον αἵ τε
τροφοὶ τῶν σμικρῶν καὶ αἱ περὶ τὰ τῶν Κορυβάντων ἰάματα
τελοῦσαι· ἡνίκα γὰρ ἄν που βουληθῶσιν κατακοιμίζειν τὰ
δυσυπνοῦντα τῶν παιδίων αἱ μητέρες, οὐχ ἡσυχίαν αὐτοῖς
προσφέρουσιν ἀλλὰ τοὐναντίον κίνησιν, ἐν ταῖς ἀγκάλαις
790e ἀεὶ σείουσαι, καὶ οὐ σιγὴν ἀλλά τινα μελῳδίαν, καὶ ἀτεχνῶς
οἷον καταυλοῦσι τῶν παιδίων, καθάπερ τῶν ἐκφρόνων
βακχειῶν ἰάσεις, ταύτῃ τῇ τῆς κινήσεως ἅμα χορείᾳ καὶ
μούσῃ χρώμεναι.
Ath.Let us take this, then, as a fundamental assumption in both cases,—that for both body and soul of the very young a process of nursing and moving, that is as continuous as possible both by day and by night, is in all cases salutary, and especially in the case of the youngest: it is like having them always rocked— if that were possible—on the sea. As it is, with new-born infants one should reproduce this condition as nearly as possible. Further evidence of this may be seen in the fact that this course is adopted and its usefulness recognized both by those who nurse small children and by those who administer remedies in cases of Corybantism. Thus when mothers have children suffering from sleeplessness, and want to lull them to rest, the treatment they apply is to give them, not quiet, but motion, for they rock them constantly in their arms; and instead of silence, they use a kind of crooning noise; and thus they literally cast a spell upon the children (like the victims of Bacchic frenzy) by employing the combined movements of dance and song as a remedy.
ΚΛ.Τίς οὖν αἰτία τούτων, ξένε, μάλιστ' ἔσθ' ἡμῖν;
Clin.And what, Stranger, are we to suppose is the main cause of this?
ΑΘ.Οὐ πάνυ χαλεπὴ γιγνώσκειν.
Ath.It is easy enough to see.
ΚΛ.Πῶς δή;
Clin.How so?
ΑΘ.Δειμαίνειν ἐστίν που ταῦτ' ἀμφότερα τὰ πάθη, καὶ
ἔστι δείματα δι' ἕξιν φαύλην τῆς ψυχῆς τινα. ὅταν οὖν
791a ἔξωθέν τις προσφέρῃ τοῖς τοιούτοις πάθεσι σεισμόν, τῶν
ἔξωθεν κρατεῖ κίνησις προσφερομένη τὴν ἐντὸς φοβερὰν
οὖσαν καὶ μανικὴν κίνησιν, κρατήσασα δέ, γαλήνην ἡσυχίαν
τε ἐν τῇ ψυχῇ φαίνεσθαι ἀπεργασαμένη τῆς περὶ τὰ τῆς
καρδίας χαλεπῆς γενομένης ἑκάστων πηδήσεως, παντάπασιν
ἀγαπητόν τι, τοὺς μὲν ὕπνου λαγχάνειν ποιεῖ, τοὺς δ' ἐγρηγορότας
ὀρχουμένους τε καὶ αὐλουμένους μετὰ θεῶν, οἷς ἂν
καλλιεροῦντες ἕκαστοι θύωσι, κατηργάσατο ἀντὶ μανικῶν
791b ἡμῖν διαθέσεων ἕξεις ἔμφρονας ἔχειν. καὶ ταῦτα, ὡς διὰ
βραχέων γε οὕτως εἰπεῖν, πιθανὸν λόγον ἔχει τινά.
Ath.Both these affections are forms of fright; and frights are due to a poor condition of soul. So whenever one applies an external shaking to affections of this kind, the external motion thus applied overpowers the internal motion of fear and frenzy, and by thus overpowering it, it brings about a manifest calm in the soul and a cessation of the grievous palpitation of the heart which had existed in each case. Thus it produces very satisfactory results. The children it puts to sleep; the Bacchants, who are awake, it brings into a sound state of mind instead of a frenzied condition, by means of dancing and playing, with the help of whatsoever gods they chance to be worshipping with sacrifice. This is—to put it shortly—quite a plausible account of the matter.
ΚΛ.Πάνυ μὲν οὖν.
Clin.Most plausible.
ΑΘ.Εἰ δέ γε οὕτως τοιαύτην τινὰ δύναμιν ἔχει ταῦτα,
ἐννοεῖν χρὴ τόδε παρ' αὑτοῖς, ὡς ἅπασα ψυχὴ δείμασιν
συνοῦσα ἐκ νέων μᾶλλον ἂν διὰ φόβων ἐθίζοιτο γίγνεσθαι·
τοῦτο δέ που πᾶς ἂν φαίη δειλίας ἄσκησιν ἀλλ' οὐκ ἀνδρείας
γίγνεσθαι.
Ath.Seeing, then, that these causes produce the effects described, in the case of the people mentioned one should observe this point,—that every soul that is subjected to fright from youth will be specially liable to become timid: and this, as all would aver, is not to practice courage, but cowardice.
ΚΛ.Πῶς γὰρ οὔ;
Clin.Of course it is.
ΑΘ.Τὸ δέ γε ἐναντίον ἀνδρείας ἂν φαῖμεν ἐκ νέων εὐθὺς
791c ἐπιτήδευμα εἶναι, τὸ νικᾶν τὰ προσπίπτονθ' ἡμῖν δείματά τε
καὶ φόβους.
Ath.The opposite course, of practicing courage from youth up, consists, we shall say, in the conquering of the frights and fears that assail us.
ΚΛ.Ὀρθῶς.
Clin.That is true.
ΑΘ.Ἓν δὴ καὶ τοῦτο εἰς ψυχῆς μόριον ἀρετῆς, τὴν τῶν
παντελῶς παίδων γυμναστικὴν ἐν ταῖς κινήσεσιν, μέγα ἡμῖν
φῶμεν συμβάλλεσθαι.
Ath.Let us say, then, that this factor—namely, the exercise of quite young children by the various motions—contributes greatly towards developing one part of the soul’s virtue.
ΚΛ.Πάνυ μὲν οὖν.
Clin.Certainly.
ΑΘ.Καὶ μὴν τό γε μὴ δύσκολον ἐν ψυχῇ καὶ τὸ δύςκολον
οὐ σμικρὸν μόριον εὐψυχίας καὶ κακοψυχίας ἑκάτερον
γιγνόμενον γίγνοιτ' ἄν.
Ath.Moreover, cheerfulness of soul and its opposite will constitute no small part of stoutheartedness and faintheartedness.
ΚΛ.Πῶς δ' οὔ;
Clin.Of course.
791d ΑΘ.Τίνα οὖν ἂν τρόπον εὐθὺς ἐμφύοιθ' ἡμῖν ὁπότερον
βουληθεῖμεν τῷ νεογενεῖ, φράζειν δὴ πειρατέον ὅπως τις καὶ
καθ' ὅσον εὐπορεῖ τούτων.
Ath.What way can we find, then, for implanting at once in the new-born child whichever of these qualities we desire? We must endeavor to indicate how and to what extent we have them at our command.
ΚΛ.Πῶς γὰρ οὔ;
Clin.By all means.
ΑΘ.Λέγω δὴ τό γε παρ' ἡμῖν δόγμα, ὡς μὲν τρυφὴ
δύσκολα καὶ ἀκράχολα καὶ σφόδρα ἀπὸ σμικρῶν κινούμενα
τὰ τῶν νέων ἤθη ἀπεργάζεται, τὸ δὲ τούτων ἐναντίον, τε
σφοδρὰ καὶ ἀγρία δούλωσις, ταπεινοὺς καὶ ἀνελευθέρους καὶ
μισανθρώπους ποιοῦσα, ἀνεπιτηδείους συνοίκους ἀποτελεῖ.
Ath.The doctrine held amongst us, I may explain, is this,—that whereas luxurious living renders the disposition of the young morose and irascible and too easily moved by trifles, its opposite (which is uttermost and cruel enslavement) makes them lowly and mean-spirited and misanthropic, and thus unfit to associate with others.
791e ΚΛ.Πῶς οὖν δὴ χρὴ τὰ μήπω φωνῆς συνιέντα, μηδὲ
παιδείας τῆς ἄλλης δυνατὰ γεύεσθαί πω, τρέφειν τὴν πόλιν
ἅπασαν;
Clin.In what way, then, should the State at large rear up infants that are still incapable of understanding speech or receiving other kinds of education?
ΑΘ.Ὧδέ πως· φθέγγεσθαί που μετὰ βοῆς εὐθὺς πᾶν
εἴωθεν τὸ γενόμενον, καὶ οὐχ ἥκιστα τὸ τῶν ἀνθρώπων γένος·
καὶ δὴ καὶ τῷ κλάειν πρὸς τῇ βοῇ μᾶλλον τῶν ἄλλων
συνέχεται.
Ath.In this way: it is usual for every creature that is born—and the human child as much as any— to utter at once a loud outcry; and, what is more, the child is the most liable of them all to be afflicted with tears as well as outcries.
ΚΛ.Πάνυ μὲν οὖν.
Clin.Quite true.
ΑΘ.Οὐκοῦν αἱ τροφοὶ σκοποῦσαι τίνος ἐπιθυμεῖ, τούτοις
792a αὐτοῖς ἐν τῇ προσφορᾷ τεκμαίρονται· οὗ μὲν γὰρ ἂν προςφερομένου
σιγᾷ, καλῶς οἴονται προσφέρειν, οὗ δ' ἂν κλάῃ
καὶ βοᾷ, οὐ καλῶς. τοῖς δὴ παιδίοις τὸ δήλωμα ὧν ἐρᾷ
καὶ μισεῖ κλαυμοναὶ καὶ βοαί, σημεῖα οὐδαμῶς εὐτυχῆ· ἔστιν
δὲ χρόνος οὗτος τριῶν οὐκ ἐλάττων ἐτῶν, μόριον οὐ σμικρὸν
τοῦ βίου διαγαγεῖν χεῖρον μὴ χεῖρον.
Ath.When nurses are trying to discover what a baby wants, they judge by these very same signs in offering it things. If it remains silent when the thing is offered, they conclude that it is the right thing, but the wrong thing if it weeps and cries out. Thus infants indicate what they like by means of weepings and outcries—truly no happy signals!—and this period of infancy lasts not less than three years, which is no small fraction of one’s time to spend ill or well.
ΚΛ.Ὀρθῶς λέγεις.
Clin.You are right.
ΑΘ. δὴ δύσκολος οὐδαμῶς τε ἵλεως ἆρ' οὐ δοκεῖ σφῷν
792b θρηνώδης τε εἶναι καὶ ὀδυρμῶν ὡς ἐπὶ τὸ πολὺ πλήρης
μᾶλλον χρεών ἐστιν τὸν ἀγαθόν;
Ath.When a man is peevish and not cheerful at all, do you not regard him as a doleful person and more full, as a rule, of complaints than a good man ought to be?
ΚΛ.Ἐμοὶ γοῦν δοκεῖ.
Clin.I certainly regard him as such.
ΑΘ.Τί οὖν; εἴ τις τὰ τρί' ἔτη πειρῷτο πᾶσαν μηχανὴν
προσφέρων ὅπως τὸ τρεφόμενον ἡμῖν ὡς ὀλιγίστῃ προσχρήσεται
ἀλγηδόνι καὶ φόβοις καὶ λύπῃ πάσῃ κατὰ δύναμιν,
ἆρ' οὐκ οἰόμεθα εὔθυμον μᾶλλόν τε καὶ ἵλεων ἀπεργάζεσθαι
τηνικαῦτα τὴν ψυχὴν τοῦ τρεφομένου;
Ath.Well then, suppose one should try to secure by every available means that our nursling should experience the least possible amount of grief or fear or pain of any kind, may we not believe that by this means the soul of the nursling would be rendered more bright and cheerful?
ΚΛ.Δῆλον δή, καὶ μάλιστά γ' ἄν, ξένε, εἴ τις πολλὰς
792c ἡδονὰς αὐτῷ παρασκευάζοι.
Clin.Plainly it would, Stranger; and most of all if one should provide him with many pleasures.
ΑΘ.Τοῦτ' οὐκέτ' ἂν ἐγὼ Κλεινίᾳ συνακολουθήσαιμ' ἄν,
θαυμάσιε. ἔστιν γὰρ οὖν ἡμῖν τοιαύτη πρᾶξις διαφθορὰ
μεγίστη πασῶν· ἐν ἀρχῇ γὰρ γίγνεται ἑκάστοτε
τροφῆς. ὁρῶμεν δὲ εἴ τι λέγομεν.
Ath.There, my good sir, I must part company with Clinias. For in our eyes such a proceeding is the worst possible form of corruption, for it occurs in every instance at the very beginning of the child’s nurture. But let us consider whether I am right.
ΚΛ.Λέγε τί φῄς.
Clin.Explain your view.
ΑΘ.Οὐ σμικροῦ πέρι νῦν εἶναι νῷν τὸν λόγον. ὅρα δὲ
καὶ σύ, συνεπίκρινέ τε ἡμᾶς, Μέγιλλε. μὲν γὰρ ἐμὸς δὴ
λόγος οὔθ' ἡδονάς φησι δεῖν διώκειν τὸν ὀρθὸν βίον οὔτ' αὖ
792d τὸ παράπαν φεύγειν τὰς λύπας, ἀλλ' αὐτὸ ἀσπάζεσθαι τὸ
μέσον, νυνδὴ προσεῖπον ὡς ἵλεων ὀνομάσας, ἣν δὴ διάθεσιν
καὶ θεοῦ κατά τινα μαντείας φήμην εὐστόχως πάντες
προσαγορεύομεν. ταύτην τὴν ἕξιν διώκειν φημὶ δεῖν ἡμῶν
καὶ τὸν μέλλοντα ἔσεσθαι θεῖον, μήτ' οὖν αὐτὸν προπετῆ
πρὸς τὰς ἡδονὰς γιγνόμενον ὅλως, ὡς οὐδ' ἐκτὸς λυπῶν
ἐσόμενον, μήτε ἄλλον, γέροντα νέον, ἐᾶν πάσχειν ταὐτὸν
τοῦθ' ἡμῖν, ἄρρενα θῆλυν, ἁπάντων δὲ ἥκιστα εἰς δύναμιν
792e τὸν ἀρτίως νεογενῆ· κυριώτατον γὰρ οὖν ἐμφύεται πᾶσι τότε
τὸ πᾶν ἦθος διὰ ἔθος. ἔτι δ' ἔγωγ', εἰ μὴ μέλλοιμι δόξειν
παίζειν, φαίην ἂν δεῖν καὶ τὰς φερούσας ἐν γαστρὶ πασῶν
τῶν γυναικῶν μάλιστα θεραπεύειν ἐκεῖνον τὸν ἐνιαυτόν,
ὅπως μήτε ἡδοναῖς τισι πολλαῖς ἅμα καὶ μάργοις προσχρήσεται
κύουσα μήτε αὖ λύπαις, τὸ δὲ ἵλεων καὶ εὐμενὲς
πρᾷόν τε τιμῶσα διαζήσει τὸν τότε χρόνον.
Ath.I believe that the issue before us is one of extreme importance. You also, Megillus, consider the matter, I pray, and lend us the aid of your judgment. What I maintain is this: that the right life ought neither to pursue pleasures nor to shun pains entirely; but it ought to embrace that middle state of cheerfulness (as I termed it a moment ago), which—as we all rightly suppose, on the strength of an inspired utterance—is the very condition of God himself. And I maintain that whosoever of us would be godlike must pursue this state of soul, neither becoming himself prone at all to pleasures, even as he will not be devoid of pain, not allowing any other person—old or young, man or woman—to be in this condition and least of all, so far as possible, the new-born babe. For because of the force of habit, it is in infancy that the whole character is most effectually determined. I should assert further—were it not that it would be taken as a jest—that women with child, above all others, should be cared for during their years of pregnancy, lest any of them should indulge in repeated and intense pleasures or pains, instead of cultivating, during the whole of that period, a cheerful, bright and calm demeanor.
793a ΚΛ.Οὐδὲν δεῖ σε, ξένε, Μέγιλλον ἀνερωτᾶν πότερος
ἡμῶν ὀρθότερον εἴρηκεν· ἐγὼ γὰρ αὐτός σοι συγχωρῶ τὸν
λύπης τε καὶ ἡδονῆς ἀκράτου βίον φεύγειν δεῖν πάντας,
μέσον δέ τινα τέμνειν ἀεί. καλῶς τοίνυν εἴρηκάς τε καὶ
ἀκήκοας ἅμα.
Clin.There is no need for you, Stranger, to ask Megillus which of us two has made the truer statement. For I myself grant you that all men ought to shun the life of unmixed pain and pleasure, and follow always a middle path. So all is well both with your statement and with my reply.
ΑΘ.Μάλα μὲν οὖν ὀρθῶς, Κλεινία. τόδε τοίνυν ἐπὶ
τούτοις τρεῖς ὄντες διανοηθῶμεν.
Ath.You are perfectly right, Clinias. So then let the three of us together consider this next point.
ΚΛ.Τὸ ποῖον;
Clin.What is that?
ΑΘ.Ὅτι ταῦτ' ἔστιν πάντα, ὅσα νῦν διεξερχόμεθα, τὰ
καλούμενα ὑπὸ τῶν πολλῶν ἄγραφα νόμιμα· καὶ οὓς πατρίους
793b νόμους ἐπονομάζουσιν, οὐκ ἄλλα ἐστὶν τὰ τοιαῦτα σύμπαντα.
καὶ ἔτι γε νυνδὴ λόγος ἡμῖν ἐπιχυθείς, ὡς οὔτε
νόμους δεῖ προσαγορεύειν αὐτὰ οὔτε ἄρρητα ἐᾶν, εἴρηται
καλῶς· δεσμοὶ γὰρ οὗτοι πάσης εἰσὶν πολιτείας, μεταξὺ
πάντων ὄντες τῶν ἐν γράμμασιν τεθέντων τε καὶ κειμένων
καὶ τῶν ἔτι θησομένων, ἀτεχνῶς οἷον πάτρια καὶ παντάπασιν
ἀρχαῖα νόμιμα, καλῶς μὲν τεθέντα καὶ ἐθισθέντα
πάσῃ σωτηρίᾳ περικαλύψαντα ἔχει τοὺς τότε γραφέντας
793c νόμους, ἂν δ' ἐκτὸς τοῦ καλοῦ βαίνῃ πλημμελῶς, οἷον
τεκτόνων ἐν οἰκοδομήμασιν ἐρείσματα ἐκ μέσου ὑπορρέοντα,
συμπίπτειν εἰς ταὐτὸν ποιεῖ τὰ σύμπαντα, κεῖσθαί τε ἄλλα
ὑφ' ἑτέρων, αὐτά τε καὶ τὰ καλῶς ὕστερον ἐποικοδομηθέντα,
τῶν ἀρχαίων ὑποπεσόντων. δὴ διανοουμένους ἡμᾶς,
Κλεινία, σοὶ δεῖ τὴν πόλιν καινὴν οὖσαν πάντῃ συνδεῖν,
μήτε μέγα μήτε σμικρὸν παραλιπόντας εἰς δύναμιν ὅσα
793d νόμους ἔθη τις ἐπιτηδεύματα καλεῖ· πᾶσι γὰρ τοῖς
τοιούτοις πόλις συνδεῖται, ἄνευ δὲ ἀλλήλων ἑκάτερα τούτων
οὐκ ἔστιν μόνιμα, ὥστε οὐ χρὴ θαυμάζειν ἐὰν ἡμῖν πολλὰ
ἅμα καὶ σμικρὰ δοκούντων εἶναι νόμιμα καὶ ἐθίσματα
ἐπιρρέοντα μακροτέρους ποιῇ τοὺς νόμους.
Ath.That all the regulations which we are now expounding are what are commonly termed unwritten laws. And these as a whole are just the same as what men call ancestral customs. Moreover, the view which was recently impressed upon us, that one should neither speak of these as laws nor yet leave them without mention, was a right view. For it is these that act as bonds in every constitution, forming a link between all its laws (both those already enacted in writing and those still to be enacted), exactly like ancestral customs of great antiquity, which, if well established and practiced, serve to wrap up securely the laws already written, whereas if they perversely go aside from the right way, like builders’ props that collapse under the middle of a house, they bring everything else tumbling down along with them, one thing buried under another, first the props themselves and then the fair superstructure, once the ancient supports have fallen down. Bearing this in mind, Clinias, we must clamp together this State of yours, which is a new one, by every possible means, omitting nothing great or small in the way of laws, customs and institutions; for it is by all such means that a State is clamped together, and neither kind of law is permanent without the other. Consequently, we need not be surprised if the influx of a number of apparently trivial customs or usages should make our laws rather long.
ΚΛ.Ἀλλ' ὀρθῶς σύ γε λέγεις, ἡμεῖς τε οὕτω διανοησόμεθα.
Clin.What you say is quite true, and we will bear it in mind.
ΑΘ.Εἰς μὲν τοίνυν τὴν τοῦ τρί' ἔτη γεγονότος ἡλικίαν,
793e κόρου καὶ κόρης, ταῦτα εἴ τις ἀκριβῶς ἀποτελοῖ καὶ μὴ
παρέργως τοῖς εἰρημένοις χρῷτο, οὐ σμικρὰ εἰς ὠφελίαν
γίγνοιτ' ἂν τοῖς νεωστὶ τρεφομένοις· τριετεῖ δὲ δὴ καὶ
τετραετεῖ καὶ πενταετεῖ καὶ ἔτι ἑξετεῖ ἤθει ψυχῆς παιδιῶν
δέον ἂν εἴη, τρυφῆς δ' ἤδη παραλυτέον κολάζοντα, μὴ ἀτίμως,
ἀλλ' ὅπερ ἐπὶ τῶν δούλων γ' ἐλέγομεν, τὸ μὴ μεθ'
ὕβρεως κολάζοντας ὀργὴν ἐμποιῆσαι δεῖν τοῖς κολασθεῖσιν
794a μηδ' ἀκολάστους ἐῶντας τρυφήν, ταὐτὸν δραστέον τοῦτό γε
καὶ ἐπ' ἐλευθέροισι. παιδιαὶ δ' εἰσὶν τοῖς τηλικούτοις αὐτοφυεῖς
τινες, ἃς ἐπειδὰν συνέλθωσιν αὐτοὶ σχεδὸν ἀνευρίσκουσι.
συνιέναι δὲ εἰς τὰ κατὰ κώμας ἱερὰ δεῖ πάντα ἤδη
τὰ τηλικαῦτα παιδία, ἀπὸ τριετοῦς μέχρι τῶν ἓξ ἐτῶν, κοινῇ
τὰ τῶν κωμητῶν εἰς ταὐτὸν ἕκαστα· τὰς δὲ τροφοὺς ἔτι
τῶν τηλικούτων κοσμιότητός τε καὶ ἀκολασίας ἐπιμελεῖσθαι,
τῶν δὲ τροφῶν αὐτῶν καὶ τῆς ἀγέλης συμπάσης, τῶν δώδεκα
794b γυναικῶν μίαν ἐφ' ἑκάστῃ τετάχθαι κοσμοῦσαν κατ'
ἐνιαυτὸν τῶν προειρημένων ἃς ἂν τάξωσιν οἱ νομοφύλακες.
ταύτας δὲ αἱρείσθωσαν μὲν αἱ τῶν γάμων κύριαι τῆς ἐπιμελείας,
ἐξ ἑκάστης τῆς φυλῆς μίαν, ἥλικας αὑταῖς· δὲ
καταστᾶσα ἀρχέτω φοιτῶσα εἰς τὸ ἱερὸν ἑκάστης ἡμέρας
καὶ κολάζουσα ἀεὶ τὸν ἀδικοῦντα, δοῦλον μὲν καὶ δούλην καὶ
ξένον καὶ ξένην αὐτὴ διά τινων τῆς πόλεως οἰκετῶν, πολίτην
794c δὲ ἀμφισβητοῦντα μὲν τῇ κολάσει πρὸς τοὺς ἀστυνόμους
ἐπὶ δίκην ἄγουσα, ἀναμφισβήτητον δὲ ὄντα καὶ τὸν πολίτην
αὐτὴ κολαζέτω. μετὰ δὲ τὸν ἑξέτη καὶ τὴν ἑξέτιν διακρινέσθω
μὲν ἤδη τὸ γένος ἑκατέρωνκόροι μὲν μετὰ κόρων,
παρθένοι δὲ ὡσαύτως μετ' ἀλλήλων τὴν διατριβὴν ποιείσθωσανπρὸς
δὲ τὰ μαθήματα τρέπεσθαι χρεὼν ἑκατέρους,
τοὺς μὲν ἄρρενας ἐφ' ἵππων διδασκάλους καὶ τόξων καὶ
ἀκοντίων καὶ σφενδονήσεως, ἐὰν δέ πῃ συγχωρῶσιν, μέχρι
794d γε μαθήσεως καὶ τὰ θήλεα, καὶ δὴ τά γε μάλιστα πρὸς τὴν
τῶν ὅπλων χρείαν. τὸ γὰρ δὴ νῦν καθεστὸς περὶ τὰ τοιαῦτα
ἀγνοεῖται παρὰ τοῖς πᾶσιν ὀλίγου.
Ath.If one could carry out these regulations methodically, and not merely apply them casually, in the case of girls and boys up to the age of three, they would conduce greatly to the benefit of our infant nurslings.

To form the character of the child over three and up to six years old there will be need of games: by then punishment must be used to prevent their getting pampered,—not, however, punishment of a degrading kind, but just as we said before, in the case of slaves, that one should avoid enraging the persons punished by using degrading punishments, or pampering them by leaving them unpunished, so in the case of the free-born the same rule holds good. Children of this age have games which come by natural instinct; and they generally invent them of themselves whenever they meet together. As soon as they have reached the age of three, all the children from three to six must meet together at the village temples, those belonging to each village assembling at the same place. Moreover, the nurses of these children must watch over their behavior, whether it be orderly or disorderly; and over the nurses themselves and the whole band of children one of the twelve women already elected must be appointed annually to take charge of each band, the appointment resting with the Law-wardens. These women shall be elected by the women who have charge of the supervision of marriage, one out of each tribe and all of a like age. The woman thus appointed shall pay an official visit to the temple every day, and she shall employ a State servant and deal summarily with male or female slaves and strangers, but in the case of citizens, if the person protests against the punishment, she shall bring him for trial before the city stewards; but if no protest is made, she shall inflict summary justice equally on citizens. After the age of six, each sex shall be kept separate, boys spending their time with boys, and likewise girls with girls; and when it is necessary for them to begin lessons, the boys must go to teachers of riding, archery, javelin-throwing and slinging, and the girls also, if they agree to it, must share in the lessons, and especially such as relate to the use of arms. For, as regards the view now prevalent regarding these matters, it is based on almost universal ignorance.

ΚΛ.Τὸ ποῖον;
Clin.What view?
ΑΘ.Ὡς ἄρα τὰ δεξιὰ καὶ τὰ ἀριστερὰ διαφέροντά ἐσθ'
ἡμῶν φύσει πρὸς τὰς χρείας εἰς ἑκάστας τῶν πράξεων τὰ
περὶ τὰς χεῖρας, ἐπεὶ τά γε περὶ πόδας τε καὶ τὰ κάτω τῶν
μελῶν οὐδὲν διαφέροντα εἰς τοὺς πόνους φαίνεται· τὰ δὲ
794e κατὰ χεῖρας ἀνοίᾳ τροφῶν καὶ μητέρων οἷον χωλοὶ γεγόναμεν
ἕκαστοι. τῆς φύσεως γὰρ ἑκατέρων τῶν μελῶν σχεδὸν
ἰσορροπούσης, αὐτοὶ διὰ τὰ ἔθη διάφορα αὐτὰ πεποιήκαμεν
οὐκ ὀρθῶς χρώμενοι. ἐν ὅσοις μὲν γὰρ τῶν ἔργων μὴ μέγα
διαφέρει, λύρᾳ μὲν ἐν ἀριστερᾷ χρώμενον, πλήκτρῳ δὲ ἐν
δεξιᾷ, πρᾶγμα οὐδέν, καὶ ὅσα τοιαῦτα· τούτοις δὲ παραδείγμασι
χρώμενον καὶ εἰς ἄλλα μὴ δέον οὕτω χρῆσθαι
795a σχεδὸν ἄνοια. ἔδειξεν δὲ ταῦτα τῶν Σκυθῶν νόμος, οὐκ
ἐν ἀριστερᾷ μὲν τόξον ἀπάγων, ἐν δεξιᾷ δὲ οἰστὸν προσαγόμενος
μόνον, ἀλλ' ὁμοίως ἑκατέροις ἐπ' ἀμφότερα χρώμενος·
πάμπολλα δ' ἕτερα τοιαῦτα παραδείγματα ἐν ἡνιοχείαις τέ
ἐστι καὶ ἐν ἑτέροις, ἐν οἷσιν μαθεῖν δυνατὸν ὅτι παρὰ φύσιν
κατασκευάζουσιν οἱ ἀριστερὰ δεξιῶν ἀσθενέστερα κατασκευάζοντες.
ταῦτα δ', ὅπερ εἴπομεν, ἐν μὲν κερατίνοις πλήκτροις
795b καὶ ἐν ὀργάνοις τοιούτοις οὐδὲν μέγα· σιδηροῖς δ' εἰς τὸν
πόλεμον ὅταν δέῃ χρῆσθαι, μέγα διαφέρει, καὶ τόξοις καὶ
ἀκοντίοις καὶ ἑκάστοις τούτων, πολὺ δὲ μέγιστον, ὅταν ὅπλοις
δέῃ πρὸς ὅπλα χρῆσθαι. διαφέρει δὲ πάμπολυ μαθὼν μὴ
μαθόντος καὶ γυμνασάμενος τοῦ μὴ γεγυμνασμένου. καθάπερ
γὰρ τελέως παγκράτιον ἠσκηκὼς πυγμὴν πάλην
οὐκ ἀπὸ μὲν τῶν ἀριστερῶν ἀδύνατός ἐστι μάχεσθαι,
χωλαίνει δὲ καὶ ἐφέλκεται πλημμελῶν, ὁπόταν αὐτόν τις
795c μεταβιβάζων ἐπὶ θάτερα ἀναγκάζῃ διαπονεῖν, ταὐτὸν δὴ
τοῦτ', οἶμαι, καὶ ἐν ὅπλοις καὶ ἐν τοῖς ἄλλοις πᾶσι χρὴ
προσδοκᾶν ὀρθόν, ὅτι τὸν διττὰ δεῖ κεκτημένον, οἷς ἀμύνοιτό
τ' ἂν καὶ ἐπιτιθεῖτο ἄλλοις, μηδὲν ἀργὸν τούτων μηδὲ
ἀνεπιστῆμον ἐᾶν εἶναι κατὰ δύναμιν· Γηρυόνου δέ γε εἴ τις
φύσιν ἔχων καὶ τὴν Βριάρεω φύοιτο, ταῖς ἑκατὸν χερσὶν
ἑκατὸν δεῖ βέλη ῥίπτειν δυνατὸν εἶναι. τούτων δὴ πάντων
795d τὴν ἐπιμέλειαν ἀρχούσαις τε καὶ ἄρχουσι δεῖ γίγνεσθαι, ταῖς
μὲν ἐν παιδιαῖς τε καὶ τροφαῖς ἐπισκόποις γιγνομέναις, τοῖς
δὲ περὶ μαθήματα, ὅπως ἀρτίποδές τε καὶ ἀρτίχειρες πάντες
τε καὶ πᾶσαι γιγνόμενοι, μηδὲν τοῖς ἔθεσιν ἀποβλάπτωσι
τὰς φύσεις εἰς τὸ δυνατόν.
Τὰ δὲ μαθήματά που διττά, ὥς γ' εἰπεῖν, χρήσασθαι
συμβαίνοι ἄν, τὰ μὲν ὅσα περὶ τὸ σῶμα γυμναστικῆς, τὰ
δ' εὐψυχίας χάριν μουσικῆς. τὰ δὲ γυμναστικῆς αὖ δύο,
795e τὸ μὲν ὄρχησις, τὸ δὲ πάλη. τῆς ὀρχήσεως δὲ ἄλλη μὲν
Μούσης λέξιν μιμουμένων, τό τε μεγαλοπρεπὲς φυλάττοντας
ἅμα καὶ ἐλεύθερον, ἄλλη δέ, εὐεξίας ἐλαφρότητός τε ἕνεκα
καὶ κάλλους, τῶν τοῦ σώματος αὐτοῦ μελῶν καὶ μερῶν τὸ
προσῆκον καμπῆς τε καὶ ἐκτάσεως, καὶ ἀποδιδομένης ἑκάστοις
αὐτοῖς αὑτῶν εὐρύθμου κινήσεως, διασπειρομένης ἅμα
καὶ συνακολουθούσης εἰς πᾶσαν τὴν ὄρχησιν ἱκανῶς. καὶ
796a δὴ τά γε κατὰ πάλην μὲν Ἀνταῖος Κερκύων ἐν τέχναις
ἑαυτῶν συνεστήσαντο φιλονικίας ἀχρήστου χάριν, πυγμῆς
Ἐπειὸς Ἄμυκος, οὐδὲν χρήσιμα ἐπὶ πολέμου κοινωνίαν
ὄντα, οὐκ ἄξια λόγῳ κοσμεῖν· τὰ δὲ ἀπ' ὀρθῆς πάλης, ἀπ'
αὐχένων καὶ χειρῶν καὶ πλευρῶν ἐξειλήσεως, μετὰ φιλονικίας
τε καὶ καταστάσεως διαπονούμενα μετ' εὐσχήμονος
ῥώμης τε καὶ ὑγιείας ἕνεκα, ταῦτ' εἰς πάντα ὄντα χρήσιμα
οὐ παρετέον, ἀλλὰ προστακτέον μαθηταῖς τε ἅμα καὶ τοῖς
796b διδάξουσιν, ὅταν ἐνταῦθ' ὦμεν τῶν νόμων, τοῖς μὲν πάντα
τὰ τοιαῦτα εὐμενῶς δωρεῖσθαι, τοῖς δὲ παραλαμβάνειν ἐν
χάρισιν. οὐδ' ὅσα ἐν τοῖς χοροῖς ἐστιν αὖ μιμήματα προσήκοντα
μιμεῖσθαι παρετέον, κατὰ μὲν τὸν τόπον τόνδε Κουρήτων
ἐνόπλια παίγνια, κατὰ δὲ Λακεδαίμονα Διοσκόρων.
δὲ αὖ που παρ' ἡμῖν κόρη καὶ δέσποινα, εὐφρανθεῖσα τῇ
τῆς χορείας παιδιᾷ, κεναῖς χερσὶν οὐκ ᾠήθη δεῖν ἀθύρειν,
796c πανοπλίᾳ δὲ παντελεῖ κοσμηθεῖσα, οὕτω τὴν ὄρχησιν διαπεραίνειν·
δὴ πάντως μιμεῖσθαι πρέπον ἂν εἴη κόρους τε
ἅμα καὶ κόρας, τὴν τῆς θεοῦ χάριν τιμῶντας, πολέμου τ' ἐν
χρείᾳ καὶ ἑορτῶν ἕνεκα. τοῖς δέ που παισὶν εὐθύς τε καὶ
ὅσον ἂν χρόνον μήπω εἰς πόλεμον ἴωσιν, πᾶσι θεοῖς προςόδους
τε καὶ πομπὰς ποιουμένους μεθ' ὅπλων τε καὶ ἵππων
ἀεὶ κοσμεῖσθαι δέον ἂν εἴη, θάττους τε καὶ βραδυτέρας ἐν
ὀρχήσεσι καὶ ἐν πορείᾳ τὰς ἱκετείας ποιουμένους πρὸς θεούς
796d τε καὶ θεῶν παῖδας. καὶ ἀγῶνας δὴ καὶ προαγῶνας, εἴ
τινων, οὐκ ἄλλων τούτων ἕνεκα προαγωνιστέον· οὗτοι γὰρ
καὶ ἐν εἰρήνῃ καὶ κατὰ πόλεμον χρήσιμοι εἴς τε πολιτείαν καὶ
ἰδίους οἴκους, οἱ δὲ ἄλλοι πόνοι τε καὶ παιδιαὶ καὶ σπουδαὶ
κατὰ σώματα οὐκ ἐλευθέρων, Μέγιλλέ τε καὶ Κλεινία.
Ἣν εἶπον γυμναστικὴν ἐν τοῖς πρώτοις λόγοις ὅτι δέοι
διεξελθεῖν, σχεδὸν δὴ διελήλυθα τὰ νῦν, καὶ ἔσθ' αὕτη
παντελής· εἰ δέ τινα ταύτης ὑμεῖς ἔχετε βελτίω, θέντες
796e εἰς κοινὸν λέγετε.
Ath.The view that, in the case of hands, right and left are by nature different in respect of their utility for special acts; but, as a matter of fact, in the case of the feet and the lower limbs there is plainly no difference in working capacity; and it is due to the folly of nurses and mothers that we have all become limping, so to say, in our hands. For in natural ability the two limbs are almost equally balanced; but we ourselves by habitually using them in a wrong way have made them different.

In actions of trifling importance this does not matter—as for example, whether a man uses the left hand for the fiddle and the right hand for the bow, and things of that sort; but to follow these precedents and to use the hands in this way on other occasions, when there is no necessity, is very like foolishness. This is shown by the Scythian custom not only of using the left hand to draw the bow and the right to fit the arrow to it, but also of using both hands alike for both actions. And there are countless other instances of a similar kind, in connection with driving horses and other occupations, which teach us that those who treat the left hand as weaker than the right are confuted by nature. But this, as we have said, matters little in the case of fiddle-bows of horn and similar implements; but when it is a case of using iron instruments of war—bows, darts and the like—it matters a great deal, and most of all when weapon is to be used against weapon at close quarters. There is a vast difference here between the taught and the untaught, the trained and the untrained warrior. For just as the athlete who is thoroughly practiced in the pancratium or in boxing or wrestling is capable of fighting on his left side, and does not move that side as if it were numb or lame, whenever he is compelled to bring it into action through his opponent shifting to the other side,—in precisely the same way, I take it, in regard to the use of weapons of war and everything else, it ought to be considered the correct thing that the man who possesses two sets of limbs, fit both for offensive and defensive action, should, so far as possible, suffer neither of these to go unpracticed or untaught. Indeed, if a man were gifted by nature with the frame of a Geryon or a Briareus, with his hundred hands he ought to be able to throw a hundred darts. So all these matters must be the care of the male and female officers, the women overseeing the games and the feeding of the children, and the men their lessons, to the intent that all the boys and girls may be sound of hand and foot, and may in no wise, if possible, get their natures warped by their habits. The lessons may, for practical convenience, be divided under two heads—the gymnastical, which concern the body, and the musical, which aim at goodness of soul. Of gymnastic there are two kinds, dancing and wrestling. Of dancing there is one branch in which the style of the Muse is imitated, preserving both freedom and nobility, and another which aims at physical soundness, agility and beauty by securing for the various parts and members of the body the proper degree of flexibility and extension and bestowing also the rhythmical motion which belongs to each, and which accompanies the whole of dancing and is diffused throughout it completely.

As to the devices introduced by Antaeus or Cercyon in the art of wrestling for the sake of empty glory, or in boxing by Epeius or Amycus, since they are useless in the business of war, they merit no eulogy. But the exercises of stand-up wrestling, with the twisting free of neck, hands and sides, when practiced with ardor and with a firm and graceful pose, and directed towards strength and health,—these must not be omitted, since they are useful for all purposes; but we must charge both the pupils and their teachers— when we reach this point in our legislation—that the latter should impart these lessons gently, and the former receive them gratefully. Nor should we omit such mimic dances as are fitting for use by our choirs,—for instance, the sword-dance of the Curetes here in Crete, and that of the Dioscori in Lacedaemon; and at Athens, too, our Virgin-Lady gladdened by the pastime of the dance deemed it not seemly to sport with empty hands, but rather to tread the measure vested in full panoply. These examples it would well become the boys and girls to copy, and so cultivate the favor of the goddess, alike for service in war and for use at festivals. It shall be the rule for the children, from the age of six until they reach military age, whenever they approach any god and form processions, to be always equipped with arms and horses, and with dance and march, now quick, now slow, to make their supplications to the gods and the children of gods. Contests, too, and preliminary trials must be carried out with a view to the objects stated, if at all; for these objects are useful both in peace and war, alike for the State and for private families; but all other kinds of work and play and bodily exercise are not worthy of a gentleman. And now, O Megillus and Clinias, I have pretty fully described that gymnastic training which—as I said early in our discourse—requires description: here it is in its full completeness. So if you know of a better gymnastic than this, disclose it.

ΚΛ.Οὐ ῥᾴδιον, ξένε, παρέντας ταῦτα ἄλλα ἔχειν
βελτίω τούτων περὶ γυμναστικῆς ἅμα καὶ ἀγωνίας εἰπεῖν.
Clin.It is no easy thing, Stranger, to reject your account of gymnastic training and competition, and produce a better one.
ΑΘ.Τὸ τοίνυν τούτοις ἑξῆς περὶ τὰ τῶν Μουσῶν τε καὶ
Ἀπόλλωνος δῶρα, τότε μέν, ὡς ἅπαντα εἰρηκότες, ᾠόμεθα
καταλείπειν μόνα τὰ περὶ γυμναστικῆς· νῦν δ' ἔστιν δῆλα
τ' ἐστὶν καὶ ὅτι πρῶτα πᾶσιν ῥητέα. λέγωμεν τοίνυν
ἑξῆς αὐτά.
Ath.The subject which comes next to this, and deals with the gifts of Apollo and the Muses, is one which we previously thought we had done with, and that the only subject left was gymnastic; but I plainly see now, not only what still remains to be said to everybody, but also that it ought to come first. Let us, then, state these points in order.
ΚΛ.Πάνυ μὲν οὖν λεκτέον.
Clin.By all means let us do so.
797a ΑΘ.Ἀκούσατε δέ μου, προακηκοότες μὲν καὶ ἐν τοῖς
πρόσθεν· ὅμως δὲ τό γε σφόδρα ἄτοπον καὶ ἄηθες διευλαβεῖσθαι
δεῖ λέγοντα καὶ ἀκούοντα, καὶ δὴ καὶ νῦν. ἐρῶ
μὲν γὰρ ἐγὼ λόγον οὐκ ἄφοβον εἰπεῖν, ὅμως δέ πῃ θαρρήσας
οὐκ ἀποστήσομαι.
Ath.Give ear to me now, albeit ye have already done so in the past. None the less, one must take great heed, now as before, both in the telling and in the hearing of a thing that is supremely strange and novel. To make the statement that I am going to make is an alarming task; yet I will summon up my courage, and not shrink from it.
ΚΛ.Τίνα δὴ τοῦτον, ξένε, λέγεις;
Clin.What is the statement you refer to, Stranger?
ΑΘ.Φημὶ κατὰ πάσας πόλεις τὸ τῶν παιδιῶν γένος
ἠγνοῆσθαι σύμπασιν ὅτι κυριώτατόν ἐστι περὶ θέσεως νόμων,
μονίμους εἶναι τοὺς τεθέντας μή. ταχθὲν μὲν
797b γὰρ αὐτὸ καὶ μετασχὸν τοῦ τὰ αὐτὰ κατὰ τὰ αὐτὰ καὶ
ὡσαύτως ἀεὶ τοὺς αὐτοὺς παίζειν τε καὶ εὐθυμεῖσθαι τοῖς
αὐτοῖς παιγνίοις, ἐᾷ καὶ τὰ σπουδῇ κείμενα νόμιμα μένειν
ἡσυχῇ, κινούμενα δὲ τὰ αὐτὰ καὶ καινοτομούμενα, μεταβολαῖς
τε ἄλλαις ἀεὶ χρώμενα, καὶ μηδέποτε ταὐτὰ φίλα
προσαγορευόντων τῶν νέων, μήτ' ἐν σχήμασιν τοῖς τῶν αὑτῶν
σωμάτων μήτε ἐν τοῖς ἄλλοις σκεύεσιν ὁμολογουμένως
αὐτοῖς ἀεὶ κεῖσθαι τό τ' εὔσχημον καὶ ἄσχημον, ἀλλὰ τόν
797c τι νέον ἀεὶ καινοτομοῦντα καὶ εἰσφέροντα τῶν εἰωθότων
ἕτερον κατά τε σχήματα καὶ χρώματα καὶ πάντα ὅσα τοιαῦτα,
τοῦτον τιμᾶσθαι διαφερόντως, τούτου πόλει λώβην οὐκ εἶναι
μείζω φαῖμεν ἂν ὀρθότατα λέγοντες· λανθάνειν γὰρ τῶν
νέων τὰ ἤθη μεθιστάντα καὶ ποιεῖν τὸ μὲν ἀρχαῖον παρ'
αὐτοῖς ἄτιμον, τὸ δὲ νέον ἔντιμον. τούτου δὲ πάλιν αὖ
λέγω τοῦ τε ῥήματος καὶ τοῦ δόγματος οὐκ εἶναι ζημίαν
μείζω πάσαις πόλεσιν· ἀκούσατε δὲ ὅσον φημὶ αὔτ' εἶναι
κακόν.
Ath.I assert that there exists in every State a complete ignorance about children’s games—how that they are of decisive importance for legislation, as determining whether the laws enacted are to be permanent or not. For when the program of games is prescribed and secures that the same children always play the same games and delight in the same toys in the same way and under the same conditions, it allows the real and serious laws also to remain undisturbed; but when these games vary and suffer innovations, amongst other constant alterations the children are always shifting their fancy from one game to another, so that neither in respect of their own bodily gestures nor in respect of their equipment have they any fixed and acknowledged standard of propriety and impropriety; but the man they hold in special honor is he who is always innovating or introducing some novel device in the matter of form or color or something of the sort; whereas it would be perfectly true to say that a State can have no worse pest than a man of that description, since he privily alters the characters of the young, and causes them to contemn what is old and esteem what is new. And I repeat again that there is no greater mischief a State can suffer than such a dictum and doctrine: just listen while I tell you how great an evil it is.
797d ΚΛ. τὸ ψέγεσθαι τὴν ἀρχαιότητα λέγεις ἐν ταῖς
πόλεσιν;
Clin.Do you mean the way people rail at antiquity in States?
ΑΘ.Πάνυ μὲν οὖν.
Ath.Precisely.
ΚΛ.Οὐ φαύλους τοίνυν ἡμᾶς ἂν ἀκροατὰς πρὸς αὐτὸν
τὸν λόγον ἔχοις ἂν τοῦτον, ἀλλ' ὡς δυνατὸν εὐμενεστάτους.
Clin.That is a theme on which you will find us no grudging listeners, but the most sympathetic possible.
ΑΘ.Εἰκὸς γοῦν.
Ath.I should certainly expect it to be so.
ΚΛ.Λέγε μόνον.
Clin.Only say on.
ΑΘ.Ἴτε δή, μειζόνως αὐτὸν ἀκούσωμέν τε ἡμῶν αὐτῶν
καὶ πρὸς ἀλλήλους οὕτως εἴπωμεν. μεταβολὴν γὰρ δὴ
πάντων πλὴν κακῶν πολὺ σφαλερώτατον εὑρήσομεν ἐν ὥραις
πάσαις, ἐν πνεύμασιν, ἐν διαίταις σωμάτων, ἐν τρόποις
797e ψυχῶν, ἐν ὡς ἔπος εἰπεῖν οὐ τοῖς μέν, τοῖς δ' οὔ, πλήν,
ὅτιπερ εἶπον νυνδή, κακοῖς· ὥστε, εἴ τις ἀποβλέψειε πρὸς
σώματα, ὡς πᾶσι μὲν σιτίοις, πᾶσι δ' αὖ ποτοῖς καὶ πόνοις
συνήθη γιγνόμενα, καὶ τὸ πρῶτον ταραχθέντα ὑπ' αὐτῶν,
ἔπειτ' ἐξ αὐτῶν τούτων ὑπὸ χρόνου σάρκας φύσαντα οἰκείας
798a τούτοις, φίλα τε καὶ συνήθη καὶ γνώριμα γενόμενα ἁπάσῃ
ταύτῃ τῇ διαίτῃ πρὸς ἡδονὴν καὶ ὑγίειαν ἄριστα διάγει, καὶ
ἄν ποτ' ἄρα ἀναγκασθῇ μεταβάλλειν αὖθις ἡντινοῦν τῶν
εὐδοκίμων διαιτῶν, τό γε κατ' ἀρχὰς συνταραχθεὶς ὑπὸ
νόσων μόγις ποτὲ κατέστη, τὴν συνήθειαν τῇ τροφῇ πάλιν
ἀπολαβών, ταὐτὸν δὴ δεῖ νομίζειν τοῦτο γίγνεσθαι καὶ περὶ
τὰς τῶν ἀνθρώπων διανοίας τε ἅμα καὶ τὰς τῶν ψυχῶν
φύσεις. οἷς γὰρ ἂν ἐντραφῶσιν νόμοις καὶ κατά τινα θείαν
798b εὐτυχίαν ἀκίνητοι γένωνται μακρῶν καὶ πολλῶν χρόνων, ὡς
μηδένα ἔχειν μνείαν μηδὲ ἀκοὴν τοῦ ποτε ἄλλως αὐτὰ σχεῖν
καθάπερ νῦν ἔχει, σέβεται καὶ φοβεῖται πᾶσα ψυχὴ
τό τι κινεῖν τῶν τότε καθεστώτων. μηχανὴν δὴ δεῖ τὸν
νομοθέτην ἐννοεῖν ἁμόθεν γέ ποθεν ὅντινα τρόπον τοῦτ'
ἔσται τῇ πόλει. τῇδ' οὖν ἔγωγε εὑρίσκω. τὰς παιδιὰς
πάντες διανοοῦνται κινουμένας τῶν νέων, ὅπερ ἔμπροσθεν
ἐλέγομεν, παιδιὰς ὄντως εἶναι καὶ οὐ τὴν μεγίστην ἐξ αὐτῶν
798c σπουδὴν καὶ βλάβην συμβαίνειν, ὥστε οὐκ ἀποτρέπουσιν
ἀλλὰ συνέπονται ὑπείκοντες, καὶ οὐ λογίζονται τόδε, ὅτι
τούτους ἀνάγκη τοὺς παῖδας τοὺς ἐν ταῖς παιδιαῖς νεωτερίζοντας
ἑτέρους ἄνδρας τῶν ἔμπροσθεν γενέσθαι παίδων,
γενομένους δὲ ἄλλους, ἄλλον βίον ζητεῖν, ζητήσαντας δέ,
ἑτέρων ἐπιτηδευμάτων καὶ νόμων ἐπιθυμῆσαι, καὶ μετὰ τοῦτο
ὡς ἥξοντος τοῦ νυνδὴ λεγομένου μεγίστου κακοῦ πόλεσιν
798d οὐδεὶς αὐτῶν φοβεῖται. τὰ μὲν οὖν ἄλλα ἐλάττω μεταβαλλόμενα
κακὰ διεξεργάζοιτ' ἄν, ὅσα περὶ σχήματα πάσχει
τὸ τοιοῦτον· ὅσα δὲ περὶ τὰ τῶν ἠθῶν ἐπαίνου τε καὶ ψόγου
πέρι πυκνὰ μεταπίπτει, πάντων, οἴομαι, μέγιστά τε καὶ
πλείστης εὐλαβείας δεόμενα ἂν εἴη.
Ath.Come now, let us listen to one another and address one another on this subject with greater care than ever. Nothing, as we shall find, is more perilous than change in respect of everything, save only what is bad,—in respect of seasons, winds, bodily diet, mental disposition, everything in short with the solitary exception, as I said just now, of the bad. Accordingly, if one considers the human body, and sees how it grows used to all kinds of meats and drinks and exercises, even though at first upset by them, and how presently out of these very materials it grows flesh that is akin to them, and acquiring thus a familiar acquaintance with, and fondness for, all this diet, lives a most healthy and pleasant life;

and further, should a man be forced again to change back to one of the highly-reputed diets, how he is upset and ill at first, and recovers with difficulty as he gets used again to the food,—it is precisely the same, we must suppose, with the intellects of men and the nature of their souls. For if there exist laws under which men have been reared up and which (by the blessing of Heaven) have remained unaltered for many centuries, so that there exists no recollection or report of their ever having been different from what they now are,—then the whole soul is forbidden by reverence and fear to alter any of the things established of old. By hook or by crook, then, the lawgiver must devise a means whereby this shall be true of his State. Now here is where I discover the means desired:—Alterations in children’s games are regarded by all lawgivers (as we said above) as being mere matters of play, and not as the causes of serious mischief; hence, instead of forbidding them, they give in to them and adopt them. They fail to reflect that those children who innovate in their games grow up into men different from their fathers; and being thus different themselves, they seek a different mode of life, and having sought this, they come to desire other institutions and laws; and none of them dreads the consequent approach of that result which we described just now as the greatest of all banes to a State. The evil wrought by changes in outward forms would be of less importance; but frequent changes in matters involving moral approval and disapproval are, as I maintain, of extreme importance, and require the utmost caution.

ΚΛ.Πῶς γὰρ οὔ;
Clin.Most certainly.
ΑΘ.Τί οὖν; τοῖς ἔμπροσθεν λόγοις πιστεύομεν, οἷς
ἐλέγομεν ὡς τὰ περὶ τοὺς ῥυθμοὺς καὶ πᾶσαν μουσικήν
ἐστιν τρόπων μιμήματα βελτιόνων καὶ χειρόνων ἀνθρώπων;
798e πῶς;
Ath.Well, then, do we still put our trust in those former statements of ours, in which we said that matters of rhythm and music generally are imitations of the manners of good or bad men? Or how do we stand?
ΚΛ.Οὐδαμῶς ἄλλως πως τό γε παρ' ἡμῖν δόγμα ἔχον
ἂν εἴη.
Clin.Our view at least remains unaltered.
ΑΘ.Οὐκοῦν, φαμέν, ἅπασαν μηχανητέον μηχανὴν ὅπως
ἂν ἡμῖν οἱ παῖδες μήτε ἐπιθυμῶσιν ἄλλων μιμημάτων
ἅπτεσθαι κατὰ ὀρχήσεις κατὰ μελῳδίας, μήτε τις αὐτοὺς
πείσῃ προσάγων παντοίας ἡδονάς;
Ath.We assert, then, that every means must be employed, not only to prevent our children from desiring to copy different models in dancing or singing, but also to prevent anyone from tempting them by the inducement of pleasures of all sorts.
ΚΛ.Ὀρθότατα λέγεις.
Clin.Quite right.
799a ΑΘ.Ἔχει τις οὖν ἡμῶν ἐπὶ τὰ τοιαῦτα βελτίω τινα
τέχνην τῆς τῶν Αἰγυπτίων;
Ath.To attain this end, can any one of us suggest a better device than that of the Egyptians?
ΚΛ.Ποίας δὴ λέγεις;
Clin.What device is that?
ΑΘ.Τοῦ καθιερῶσαι πᾶσαν μὲν ὄρχησιν, πάντα δὲ
μέλη, τάξαντας πρῶτον μὲν τὰς ἑορτάς, συλλογισαμένους εἰς
τὸν ἐνιαυτὸν ἅστινας ἐν οἷς χρόνοις καὶ οἷστισιν ἑκάστοις
τῶν θεῶν καὶ παισὶ τούτων καὶ δαίμοσι γίγνεσθαι χρεών,
μετὰ δὲ τοῦτο, ἐπὶ τοῖς τῶν θεῶν θύμασιν ἑκάστοις ἣν ᾠδὴν
δεῖ ἐφυμνεῖσθαι, καὶ χορείαις ποίαισιν γεραίρειν τὴν τότε
799b θυσίαν, τάξαι μὲν πρῶτόν τινας, δ' ἂν ταχθῇ, Μοίραις
καὶ τοῖς ἄλλοις πᾶσι θεοῖς θύσαντας κοινῇ πάντας τοὺς
πολίτας, σπένδοντας καθιεροῦν ἑκάστας τὰς ᾠδὰς ἑκάστοις
τῶν θεῶν καὶ τῶν ἄλλων· ἂν δὲ παρ' αὐτά τίς τῳ θεῶν
ἄλλους ὕμνους χορείας προσάγῃ, τοὺς ἱερέας τε καὶ τὰς
ἱερείας μετὰ νομοφυλάκων ἐξείργοντας ὁσίως ἐξείργειν καὶ
κατὰ νόμον, τὸν δὲ ἐξειργόμενον, ἂν μὴ ἑκὼν ἐξείργηται,
δίκας ἀσεβείας διὰ βίου παντὸς τῷ ἐθελήσαντι παρέχειν.
Ath.The device of consecrating all dancing and all music. First, they should ordain the sacred feasts, by drawing up an annual list of what feasts are to be held, and on what dates, and in honor of what special gods and children of gods and daemons; and they should ordain next what hymn is to be sung at each of the religious sacrifices, and with what dances each such sacrifice is to be graced; these ordinances should be first made by certain persons, and then the whole body of citizens, after making a public sacrifice to the Fates and all the other deities, should consecrate with a libation these ordinances—dedicating each of the hymns to their respective gods and divinities. And if any man proposes other hymns or dances besides these for any god, the priests and priestesses will be acting in accordance with both religion and law when, with the help of the Law-wardens, they expel him from the feast; and if the man resists expulsion, he shall be liable, so long as he lives, to be prosecuted for impiety by anyone who chooses.
ΚΛ.Ὀρθῶς.
Clin.That is right.
799c ΑΘ.Πρὸς τούτῳ δὴ νῦν γενόμενοι τῷ λόγῳ, πάθωμεν
τὸ πρέπον ἡμῖν αὐτοῖς.
Ath.Since we find ourselves now dealing with this theme, let us behave as befits ourselves.
ΚΛ.Τοῦ πέρι λέγεις;
Clin.In what respect?
ΑΘ.Πᾶς που νέος, μὴ ὅτι πρεσβύτης, ἰδὼν ἂν καὶ
ἀκούσας ὁτιοῦν τῶν ἐκτόπων καὶ μηδαμῇ πως συνήθων, οὐκ
ἄν ποτέ που τὸ ἀπορηθὲν περὶ αὐτῶν συγχωρήσειεν ἐπιδραμὼν
οὕτως εὐθύς, στὰς δ' ἄν, καθάπερ ἐν τριόδῳ γενόμενος
καὶ μὴ σφόδρα κατειδὼς ὁδόν, εἴτε μόνος εἴτε μετ'
799d ἄλλων τύχοι πορευόμενος, ἀνέροιτ' ἂν αὑτὸν καὶ τοὺς ἄλλους
τὸ ἀπορούμενον, καὶ οὐκ ἂν πρότερον ὁρμήσειεν, πρίν πῃ
βεβαιώσαιτο τὴν σκέψιν τῆς πορείας ὅπῃ ποτὲ φέρει. καὶ
δὴ καὶ τὸ παρὸν ἡμῖν ὡσαύτως ποιητέον· ἀτόπου γὰρ τὰ
νῦν ἐμπεπτωκότος λόγου περὶ νόμων, ἀνάγκη που σκέψιν
πᾶσαν ποιήσασθαι, καὶ μὴ ῥᾳδίως οὕτως περὶ τοσούτων
τηλικούτους ὄντας φάναι διισχυριζομένους ἐν τῷ παραχρῆμά
τι σαφὲς ἂν εἰπεῖν ἔχειν.
Ath.Every young man—not to speak of old men—on hearing or seeing anything unusual and strange, is likely to avoid jumping to a hasty and impulsive solution of his doubts about it, and to stand still; just as a man who has come to a crossroads and is not quite sure of his way, if he be travelling alone, will question himself, or if travelling with others, will question them too about the matter in doubt, and refuse to proceed until he has made sure by investigation of the direction of his path. We must now do likewise. In our discourse about laws, the point which has now occurred to us being strange, we are bound to investigate it closely; and in a matter so weighty we, at our age, must not lightly assume or assert that we can make any reliable statement about it on the spur of the moment.
ΚΛ.Ἀληθέστατα λέγεις.
Clin.That is very true.
799e ΑΘ.Οὐκοῦν τούτῳ μὲν χρόνον δώσομεν, βεβαιώσομεν
δὲ τότε αὐτό, ὁπόταν σκεψώμεθα ἱκανῶς· ἵνα δὲ μὴ τὴν
ἑπομένην τάξιν τοῖς νόμοις τοῖς νῦν ἡμῖν παροῦσι διαπεράνασθαι
κωλυθῶμεν μάτην, ἴωμεν πρὸς τὸ τέλος αὐτῶν.
τάχα γὰρ ἴσως, εἰ θεὸς ἐθέλοι, κἂν διέξοδος αὕτη ὅλη
σχοῦσα τέλος ἱκανῶς ἂν μηνύσειε καὶ τὸ νῦν διαπορούμενον.
Ath.We shall, therefore, devote some time to this subject, and only when we have investigated it thoroughly shall we regard our conclusions as certain. But lest we be uselessly hindered from completing the ordinance which accompanies the laws with which we are now concerned, let us proceed to their conclusion. For very probably (if Heaven so will) this exposition, when completely brought to its conclusion, may also clear up the problem now before us.
ΚΛ.Ἄριστ', ξένε, λέγεις, καὶ ποιῶμεν οὕτως ὡς εἴρηκας.
Clin.Well said, Stranger: let us do just as you say.
ΑΘ.Δεδόχθω μὲν δή, φαμέν, τὸ ἄτοπον τοῦτο, νόμους
τὰς ᾠδὰς ἡμῖν γεγονέναι, καὶ καθάπερ οἱ παλαιοὶ τότε περὶ
κιθαρῳδίαν οὕτω πως, ὡς ἔοικεν, ὠνόμασανὥστε τάχ'
800a ἂν οὐδ' ἐκεῖνοι παντάπασί γ' ἂν ἀφεστῶτες εἶεν τοῦ νῦν
λεγομένου, καθ' ὕπνον δὲ οἷόν πού τις καὶ ὕπαρ ἐγρηγορὼς
ὠνείρωξεν μαντευόμενος αὐτότὸ δ' οὖν δόγμα περὶ
αὐτοῦ τοῦτ' ἔστω· παρὰ τὰ δημόσια μέλη τε καὶ ἱερὰ καὶ
τὴν τῶν νέων σύμπασαν χορείαν μηδεὶς μᾶλλον παρ'
ὁντινοῦν ἄλλον τῶν νόμων φθεγγέσθω μηδ' ἐν ὀρχήσει
κινείσθω. καὶ μὲν τοιοῦτος ἀζήμιος ἀπαλλαττέσθω, τὸν
δὲ μὴ πειθόμενον, καθάπερ ἐρρήθη νυνδή, νομοφύλακές τε
800b καὶ ἱέρειαι καὶ ἱερῆς κολαζόντων. κείσθω δὲ νῦν ἡμῖν
ταῦτα τῷ λόγῳ;
Ath.Let the strange fact be granted, we say, that our hymns are now made into nomes (laws), just as the men of old, it would seem, gave this name to harp-tunes,— so that they, too, perhaps, would not wholly disagree with our present suggestion, but one of them may have divined it vaguely, as in a dream by night or a waking vision: anyhow, let this be the decree on the matter:—In violation of public tunes and sacred songs and the whole choristry of the young, just as in violation of any other nome (law), no person shall utter a note or move a limb in the dance. He that obeys shall be free of all penalty; but he that disobeys shall (as we said just now) be punished by the Law-wardens, the priestesses and the priests. Shall we now lay down these enactments in our statement?
ΚΛ.Κείσθω.
Clin.Yes, lay them down.
ΑΘ.Τίνα δὴ τρόπον αὐτὰ νομοθετῶν τις μὴ παντάπασιν
καταγέλαστος γίγνοιτ' ἄν; ἴδωμεν δὴ τὸ τοιόνδ' ἔτι περὶ
αὐτά. ἀσφαλέστατον καθάπερ ἐκμαγεῖ' ἄττ' αὐτοῖσιν πρῶτον
πλάσασθαι τῷ λόγῳ, λέγω δὲ ἓν μὲν τῶν ἐκμαγείων εἶναι
τοιόνδε τι· θυσίας γενομένης καὶ ἱερῶν καυθέντων κατὰ
νόμον, εἴ τῴ τις, φαμέν, ἰδίᾳ παραστὰς τοῖς βωμοῖς τε καὶ
800c ἱεροῖς, ὑὸς καὶ ἀδελφός, βλασφημοῖ πᾶσαν βλασφημίαν,
ἆρ' οὐκ, ἂν φαῖμεν, ἀθυμίαν καὶ κακὴν ὄτταν καὶ μαντείαν
πατρὶ καὶ τοῖς ἄλλοις ἂν οἰκείοις φθέγγοιτο ἐντιθείς;
Ath.How shall we enact these rules by law in such a way as to escape ridicule? Let us consider yet another point concerning them. The safest plan is to begin by framing in our discourse some typical cases, so to call them; one such case I may describe in this way. Suppose that, when a sacrifice is being performed and the offerings duly burned, some private worshipper—a son or a brother —when standing beside the altar and the offering, should blaspheme most blasphemously, would not his voice bring upon his father and the rest of the family a feeling of despair and evil forebodings?
ΚΛ.Τί μήν;
Clin.It would.
ΑΘ.Ἐν τοίνυν τοῖς παρ' ἡμῖν τόποις τοῦτ' ἐστὶν ταῖς
πόλεσι γιγνόμενον ὡς ἔπος εἰπεῖν σχεδὸν ὀλίγου πάσαις·
δημοσίᾳ γάρ τινα θυσίαν ὅταν ἀρχή τις θύσῃ, μετὰ ταῦτα
χορὸς οὐχ εἷς ἀλλὰ πλῆθος χορῶν ἥκει, καὶ στάντες οὐ
800d πόρρω τῶν βωμῶν ἀλλὰ παρ' αὐτοὺς ἐνίοτε, πᾶσαν βλασφημίαν
τῶν ἱερῶν καταχέουσιν, ῥήμασί τε καὶ ῥυθμοῖς καὶ
γοωδεστάταις ἁρμονίαις συντείνοντες τὰς τῶν ἀκροωμένων
ψυχάς, καὶ ὃς ἂν δακρῦσαι μάλιστα τὴν θύσασαν παραχρῆμα
ποιήσῃ πόλιν, οὗτος τὰ νικητήρια φέρει. τοῦτον δὴ
τὸν νόμον ἆρ' οὐκ ἀποψηφιζόμεθα; καὶ εἴ ποτ' ἄρα δεῖ
τοιούτων οἴκτων γίγνεσθαι τοὺς πολίτας ἐπηκόους, ὁπόταν
ἡμέραι μὴ καθαραί τινες ἀλλὰ ἀποφράδες ὦσιν, τόθ' ἥκειν
800e δέον ἂν εἴη μᾶλλον χορούς τινας ἔξωθεν μεμισθωμένους
ᾠδούς, οἷον οἱ περὶ τοὺς τελευτήσαντας μισθούμενοι Καρικῇ
τινι μούσῃ προπέμπουσι τοὺς τελευτήσαντας; τοιοῦτόν που
πρέπον ἂν εἴη καὶ περὶ τὰς τοιαύτας ᾠδὰς γιγνόμενον, καὶ
δὴ καὶ στολή γέ που ταῖς ἐπικηδείοις ᾠδαῖς οὐ στέφανοι
πρέποιεν ἂν οὐδ' ἐπίχρυσοι κόσμοι, πᾶν δὲ τοὐναντίον, ἵν'
ὅτι τάχιστα περὶ αὐτῶν λέγων ἀπαλλάττωμαι. τὸ δὲ τοσοῦτον
ἡμᾶς αὐτοὺς ἐπανερωτῶ πάλιν, τῶν ἐκμαγείων ταῖς
ᾠδαῖς εἰ πρῶτον ἓν τοῦθ' ἡμῖν ἀρέσκον κείσθω.
Ath.Well, in our part of the world this is what happens, one may almost say, in nearly every one of the States. Whenever a magistrate holds a public sacrifice, the next thing is for a crowd of choirs— not merely one—to advance and take their stand, not at a distance from the altars, but often quite close to them; and then they let out a flood of blasphemy over the sacred offerings, racking the souls of their audience with words, rhythms and tunes most dolorous, and the man that succeeds at once in drawing most tears from the sacrificing city carries off the palm of victory. Must we not reject such a custom as this? For if it is ever really necessary that the citizens should listen to such doleful strains, it would be more fitting that the choirs that attend should be hired from abroad, and that not on holy days but only on fast-days— just as a corpse is escorted with Carian music by hired mourners. Such music would also form the fitting accompaniment for hymns of this kind; and the garb befitting these funeral hymns would not be any crowns nor gilded ornaments, but just the opposite, for I want to get done with this subject as soon as I can. Only I would have us ask ourselves again this single question,—are we satisfied to lay this down as our first typical rule for hymns?
ΚΛ.Τὸ ποῖον;
Clin.What rule?
ΑΘ.Εὐφημία, καὶ δὴ καὶ τὸ τῆς ᾠδῆς γένος εὔφημον
801a ἡμῖν πάντῃ πάντως ὑπαρχέτω; μηδὲν ἐπανερωτῶ, τιθῶ
δὲ τοῦτο οὕτως;
Ath.That of auspicious speech; and must we have a kind of hymn that is altogether in all respects auspicious? Or shall I ordain that it shall be so, without further questioning?
ΚΛ.Παντάπασι μὲν οὖν τίθει· νικᾷ γὰρ πάσαισι ταῖς
ψήφοις οὗτος νόμος.
Clin.By all means ordain it so; for that is a law carried by a unanimous vote.
ΑΘ.Τίς δὴ μετ' εὐφημίαν δεύτερος ἂν εἴη νόμος μουσικῆς;
ἆρ' οὐκ εὐχὰς εἶναι τοῖς θεοῖς οἷς θύομεν ἑκάστοτε;
Ath.What then, next to auspicious speech, should be the second law of music? Is it not that prayers should be made on each occasion to those gods to whom offering is made?
ΚΛ.Πῶς γὰρ οὔ;
Clin.Certainly.
ΑΘ.Τρίτος δ' οἶμαι νόμος, ὅτι γνόντας δεῖ τοὺς ποιητὰς
ὡς εὐχαὶ παρὰ θεῶν αἰτήσεις εἰσίν, δεῖ δὴ τὸν νοῦν αὐτοὺς
801b σφόδρα προσέχειν μή ποτε λάθωσιν κακὸν ὡς ἀγαθὸν αἰτούμενοι·
γελοῖον γὰρ δὴ τὸ πάθος οἶμαι τοῦτ' ἂν γίγνοιτο,
εὐχῆς τοιαύτης γενομένης.
Ath.The third law, I suppose, will be this,—that the poets, knowing that prayers are requests addressed to gods, must take the utmost care lest unwittingly they request a bad thing as though it were a good thing; for if such a prayer were made, it would prove, I fancy, a ludicrous blunder.
ΚΛ.Τί μήν;
Clin.Of course.
ΑΘ.Οὐκοῦν ἡμεῖς ἔμπροσθεν σμικρὸν τῷ λόγῳ ἐπείσθημεν
ὡς οὔτε ἀργυροῦν δεῖ πλοῦτον οὔτε χρυσοῦν ἐν
πόλει ἱδρυμένον ἐνοικεῖν;
Ath.Did not our argument convince us, a little while ago, that no Plutus either in gold or in silver should dwell enshrined within the State?
ΚΛ.Πάνυ μὲν οὖν.
Clin.It did.
ΑΘ.Τίνος οὖν ποτε παράδειγμα εἰρῆσθαι φῶμεν τοῦτον
τὸν λόγον; ἆρ' οὐ τοῦδε, ὅτι τὸ τῶν ποιητῶν γένος οὐ πᾶν
801c ἱκανόν ἐστι γιγνώσκειν σφόδρα τά τε ἀγαθὰ καὶ μή; ποιήσας
οὖν δήπου τὶς ποιητὴς ῥήμασιν καὶ κατὰ μέλος τοῦτο
ἡμαρτημένον, εὐχὰς οὐκ ὀρθάς, ἡμῖν τοὺς πολίτας περὶ τῶν
μεγίστων εὔχεσθαι τἀναντία ποιήσει· καίτοι τούτου, καθάπερ
ἐλέγομεν, οὐ πολλὰ ἁμαρτήματα ἀνευρήσομεν μείζω. θῶμεν
δὴ καὶ τοῦτον τῶν περὶ μοῦσαν νόμων καὶ τύπων ἕνα;
Ath.What then shall we say that this statement serves to illustrate? Is it not this,—that the tribe of poets is not wholly capable of discerning very well what is good and what not? For surely when a poet, suffering from this error, composes prayers either in speech or in song, he will be making our citizens contradict ourselves in their prayers for things of the greatest moment; yet this, as we have said, is an error than which few are greater. So shall we also lay down this as one of our laws and typical cases regarding music?
ΚΛ.Τίνα; σαφέστερον εἰπὲ ἡμῖν.
Clin.What law? Explain it to us more clearly.
ΑΘ.Τὸν ποιητὴν παρὰ τὰ τῆς πόλεως νόμιμα καὶ δίκαια
801d καλὰ ἀγαθὰ μηδὲν ποιεῖν ἄλλο, τὰ δὲ ποιηθέντα μὴ
ἐξεῖναι τῶν ἰδιωτῶν μηδενὶ πρότερον δεικνύναι, πρὶν ἂν
αὐτοῖς τοῖς περὶ ταῦτα ἀποδεδειγμένοις κριταῖς καὶ τοῖς
νομοφύλαξιν δειχθῇ καὶ ἀρέσῃ· σχεδὸν δὲ ἀποδεδειγμένοι
εἰσὶν ἡμῖν οὓς εἱλόμεθα νομοθέτας περὶ τὰ μουσικὰ καὶ τὸν
τῆς παιδείας ἐπιμελητήν. τί οὖν; πολλάκις ἐρωτῶ, κείσθω
νόμος ἡμῖν καὶ τύπος ἐκμαγεῖόν τε τρίτον τοῦτο; πῶς δοκεῖ;
Ath.The law that the poet shall compose nothing which goes beyond the limits of what the State holds to be legal and right, fair and good; nor shall he show his compositions to any private person until they have first been shown to the judges appointed to deal with these matters, and to the Law-wardens, and have been approved by them. And in fact we have judges appointed in those whom we selected to be the legislators of music and in the supervisor of education. Well then, I repeat my question,—is this to be laid down as our third law, typical case, and example? What think you?
ΚΛ.Κείσθω· τί μήν;
Clin.Be it laid down by all means.
801e ΑΘ.Μετά γε μὴν ταῦτα ὕμνοι θεῶν καὶ ἐγκώμια κεκοινωνημένα
εὐχαῖς ᾄδοιτ' ἂν ὀρθότατα, καὶ μετὰ θεοὺς ὡσαύτως
περὶ δαίμονάς τε καὶ ἥρωας μετ' ἐγκωμίων εὐχαὶ γίγνοιντ'
ἂν τούτοις πᾶσιν πρέπουσαι.
Ath.Next to these, it will be most proper to sing hymns and praise to the gods, coupled with prayers; and after the gods will come prayers combined with praise to daemons and heroes, as is befitting to each.
ΚΛ.Πῶς γὰρ οὔ;
Clin.To be sure.
ΑΘ.Μετά γε μὴν ταῦτ' ἤδη νόμος ἄνευ φθόνων εὐθὺς
γίγνοιτ' ἂν ὅδε· τῶν πολιτῶν ὁπόσοι τέλος ἔχοιεν τοῦ
βίου, κατὰ σώματα κατὰ ψυχὰς ἔργα ἐξειργασμένοι καλὰ
καὶ ἐπίπονα καὶ τοῖς νόμοις εὐπειθεῖς γεγονότες, ἐγκωμίων
αὐτοὺς τυγχάνειν πρέπον ἂν εἴη.
Ath.This done, we may proceed at once without scruple to formulate this law:—all citizens who have attained the goal of life and have wrought with body or soul noble works and toilsome, and have been obedient to the laws, shall be regarded as fitting objects for praise.
ΚΛ.Πῶς δ' οὔ;
Clin.Certainly.
802a ΑΘ.Τούς γε μὴν ἔτι ζῶντας ἐγκωμίοις τε καὶ ὕμνοις
τιμᾶν οὐκ ἀσφαλές, πρὶν ἂν ἅπαντά τις τὸν βίον διαδραμὼν
τέλος ἐπιστήσηται καλόν· ταῦτα δὲ πάντα ἡμῖν ἔστω κοινὰ
ἀνδράσιν τε καὶ γυναιξὶν ἀγαθοῖς καὶ ἀγαθαῖς διαφανῶς
γενομένοις. τὰς δὲ ᾠδάς τε καὶ ὀρχήσεις οὑτωσὶ χρὴ
καθίστασθαι. πολλὰ ἔστιν παλαιῶν παλαιὰ περὶ μουσικὴν
καὶ καλὰ ποιήματα, καὶ δὴ καὶ τοῖς σώμασιν ὀρχήσεις
ὡσαύτως, ὧν οὐδεὶς φθόνος ἐκλέξασθαι τῇ καθισταμένῃ
802b πολιτείᾳ τὸ πρέπον καὶ ἁρμόττον· δοκιμαστὰς δὲ τούτων
ἑλομένους τὴν ἐκλογὴν ποιεῖσθαι μὴ νεωτέρους πεντήκοντα
ἐτῶν, καὶ ὅτι μὲν ἂν ἱκανὸν εἶναι δόξῃ τῶν παλαιῶν ποιημάτων,
ἐγκρίνειν, ὅτι δ' ἂν ἐνδεὲς τὸ παράπαν ἀνεπιτήδειον,
τὸ μὲν ἀποβάλλεσθαι παντάπασιν, τὸ δ' ἐπανερόμενον
ἐπιρρυθμίζειν, ποιητικοὺς ἅμα καὶ μουσικοὺς ἄνδρας παραλαβόντας,
χρωμένους αὐτῶν ταῖς δυνάμεσιν τῆς ποιήσεως,
802c ταῖς δὲ ἡδοναῖς καὶ ἐπιθυμίαις μὴ ἐπιτρέποντας ἀλλ' τισιν
ὀλίγοις, ἐξηγουμένους δὲ τὰ τοῦ νομοθέτου βουλήματα, ὅτι
μάλιστα ὄρχησίν τε καὶ ᾠδὴν καὶ πᾶσαν χορείαν συστήσασθαι
κατὰ τὸν αὐτῶν νοῦν. πᾶσα δ' ἄτακτός γε τάξιν
λαβοῦσα περὶ μοῦσαν διατριβὴ καὶ μὴ παρατιθεμένης τῆς
γλυκείας μούσης ἀμείνων μυρίῳ· τὸ δ' ἡδὺ κοινὸν πάσαις.
ἐν γὰρ ἂν ἐκ παίδων τις μέχρι τῆς ἑστηκυίας τε καὶ
ἔμφρονος ἡλικίας διαβιῷ, σώφρονι μὲν μούσῃ καὶ τεταγμένῃ,
802d ἀκούων δὲ τῆς ἐναντίας, μισεῖ καὶ ἀνελεύθερον αὐτὴν προςαγορεύει,
τραφεὶς δ' ἐν τῇ κοινῇ καὶ γλυκείᾳ, ψυχρὰν καὶ
ἀηδῆ τὴν ταύτῃ ἐναντίαν εἶναί φησιν· ὥστε, ὅπερ ἐρρήθη
νυνδή, τό γε τῆς ἡδονῆς ἀηδίας περὶ ἑκατέρας οὐδὲν πεπλεονέκτηκεν,
ἐκ περιττοῦ δὲ μὲν βελτίους, δὲ χείρους
τοὺς ἐν αὐτῇ τραφέντας ἑκάστοτε παρέχεται.
Ath.But truly it is not safe to honor with hymns and praises those still living, before they have traversed the whole of life and reached a noble end. All such honors shall be equally shared by women as well as men who have been conspicuous for their excellence. As to the songs and the dances, this is the fashion in which they should be arranged. Among the compositions of the ancients there exist many fine old pieces of music, and likewise dances, from which we may select without scruple for the constitution we are founding such as are fitting and proper. To examine these and make the selection, we shall choose out men not under fifty years of age; and whichever of the ancient songs are approved we shall adopt, but whichever fail to reach our standard, or are altogether unsuitable, we shall either reject entirely or revise and remodel. For this purpose we shall call in the advice of poets and musicians, and make use of their poetical ability, without, however, trusting to their tastes or their wishes, except in rare instances; and by thus expounding the intentions of the lawgiver, we shall organize to his satisfaction dancing, singing, and the whole of choristry. In truth, every unregulated musical pursuit becomes, when brought under regulation, a thousand times better, even when no honeyed strains are served up: all alike provide pleasure. For if a man has been reared from childhood up to the age of steadiness and sense in the use of music that is sober and regulated, then he detests the opposite kind whenever he hears it, and calls it vulgar; whereas if he has been reared in the common honeyed kind of music, he declares the opposite of this to be cold and unpleasing. Hence, as we said just now, in respect of the pleasure or displeasure they cause neither kind excels the other; where the superiority lies is in the fact that the one kind always makes those who are reared in it better, the other worse.
ΚΛ.Καλῶς εἴρηκας.
Clin.Finely spoken!
ΑΘ.Ἔτι δὲ θηλείαις τε πρεπούσας ᾠδὰς ἄρρεσί τε
802e χωρίσαι που δέον ἂν εἴη τύπῳ τινὶ διορισάμενον, καὶ ἁρμονίαισιν
δὴ καὶ ῥυθμοῖς προσαρμόττειν ἀναγκαῖον· δεινὸν
γὰρ ὅλῃ γε ἁρμονίᾳ ἀπᾴδειν ῥυθμῷ ἀρρυθμεῖν, μηδὲν προσήκοντα
τούτων ἑκάστοις ἀποδιδόντα τοῖς μέλεσιν. ἀναγκαῖον
δὴ καὶ τούτων τὰ σχήματά γε νομοθετεῖν. ἔστιν δὲ ἀμφοτέροις
μὲν ἀμφότερα ἀνάγκῃ κατεχόμενα ἀποδιδόναι, τὰ δὲ
τῶν θηλειῶν αὐτῷ τῷ τῆς φύσεως ἑκατέρου διαφέροντι, τούτῳ
δεῖ καὶ διασαφεῖν. τὸ δὴ μεγαλοπρεπὲς οὖν καὶ τὸ πρὸς
τὴν ἀνδρείαν ῥέπον ἀρρενωπὸν φατέον εἶναι, τὸ δὲ πρὸς τὸ
κόσμιον καὶ σῶφρον μᾶλλον ἀποκλῖνον θηλυγενέστερον ὡς
ὂν παραδοτέον ἔν τε τῷ νόμῳ καὶ λόγῳ. τάξις μὲν δή
803a τις αὕτη· τούτων δὲ αὐτῶν διδασκαλία καὶ παράδοσις
λεγέσθω τὸ μετὰ τοῦτο, τίνα τρόπον χρὴ καὶ οἷστισιν καὶ
πότε πράττειν ἕκαστα αὐτῶν. οἷον δή τις ναυπηγὸς τὴν τῆς
ναυπηγίας ἀρχὴν καταβαλλόμενος τὰ τροπιδεῖα ὑπογράφεται
τῶν πλοίων σχήματα, ταὐτὸν δή μοι κἀγὼ φαίνομαι ἐμαυτῷ
δρᾶν, τὰ τῶν βίων πειρώμενος σχήματα διαστήσασθαι κατὰ
τρόπους τοὺς τῶν ψυχῶν, ὄντως αὐτῶν τὰ τροπιδεῖα καταβάλλεσθαι,
803b ποίᾳ μηχανῇ καὶ τίσιν ποτὲ τρόποις συνόντες
τὸν βίον ἄριστα διὰ τοῦ πλοῦ τούτου τῆς ζωῆς διακομισθησόμεθα,
τοῦτο σκοπεῖν ὀρθῶς. ἔστι δὴ τοίνυν τὰ τῶν
ἀνθρώπων πράγματα μεγάλης μὲν σπουδῆς οὐκ ἄξια, ἀναγκαῖόν
γε μὴν σπουδάζειν· τοῦτο δὲ οὐκ εὐτυχές. ἐπειδὴ
δὲ ἐνταῦθά ἐσμεν, εἴ πως διὰ προσήκοντός τινος αὐτὸ πράττοιμεν,
ἴσως ἂν ἡμῖν σύμμετρον ἂν εἴη. λέγω δὲ δὴ τί ποτε;
ἴσως μεντἄν τίς μοι τοῦτ' αὐτὸ ὑπολαβὼν ὀρθῶς ὑπολάβοι.
Ath.Further, it will be right for the lawgiver to set apart suitable songs for males and females by making a rough division of them; and he must necessarily adapt them to harmonies and rhythms, for it would be a horrible thing for discord to exist between theme and tune, meter and rhythm, as a result of providing the songs with unsuitable accompaniments. So the lawgiver must of necessity ordain at least the outline of these. And while it is necessary for him to assign both words and music for both types of song as defined by the natural difference of the two sexes, he must also clearly declare wherein the feminine type consists. Now we may affirm that what is noble and of a manly tendency is masculine, while that which inclines rather to decorum and sedateness is to be regarded rather as feminine both in law and in discourse.

Such then is our regulation of the matter. We have next to discuss the question of the teaching and imparting of these subjects—how, by whom, and when each of them should be practiced. Just as a shipwright at the commencement of his building outlines the shape of his vessel by laying down her keel, so I appear to myself to be doing just the same—trying to frame, that is, the shapes of lives according to the modes of their souls, and thus literally laying down their keels, by rightly considering by what means and by what modes of living we shall best navigate our barque of life through this voyage of existence. And notwithstanding that human affairs are unworthy of earnest effort, necessity counsels us to be in earnest; and that is our misfortune. Yet, since we are where we are, it is no doubt becoming that we should show this earnestness in a suitable direction. But no doubt I may be faced—and rightly faced—with the question, What do I mean by this?

803c ΚΛ.Πάνυ μὲν οὖν.
Clin.Certainly.
ΑΘ.Φημὶ χρῆναι τὸ μὲν σπουδαῖον σπουδάζειν, τὸ δὲ
μὴ σπουδαῖον μή, φύσει δὲ εἶναι θεὸν μὲν πάσης μακαρίου
σπουδῆς ἄξιον, ἄνθρωπον δέ, ὅπερ εἴπομεν ἔμπροσθεν, θεοῦ
τι παίγνιον εἶναι μεμηχανημένον, καὶ ὄντως τοῦτο αὐτοῦ τὸ
βέλτιστον γεγονέναι· τούτῳ δὴ δεῖν τῷ τρόπῳ συνεπόμενον
καὶ παίζοντα ὅτι καλλίστας παιδιὰς πάντ' ἄνδρα καὶ γυναῖκα
οὕτω διαβιῶναι, τοὐναντίον νῦν διανοηθέντας.
Ath.What I assert is this,—that a man ought to be in serious earnest about serious things, and not about trifles; and that the object really worthy of all serious and blessed effort is God, while man is contrived, as we said above, to be a plaything of God, and the best part of him is really just that; and thus I say that every man and woman ought to pass through life in accordance with this character, playing at the noblest of pastimes, being otherwise minded than they now are.
803d ΚΛ.Πῶς;
Clin.How so?
ΑΘ.Νῦν μέν που τὰς σπουδὰς οἴονται δεῖν ἕνεκα τῶν
παιδιῶν γίγνεσθαι· τὰ γὰρ περὶ τὸν πόλεμον ἡγοῦνται
σπουδαῖα ὄντα τῆς εἰρήνης ἕνεκα δεῖν εὖ τίθεσθαι. τὸ δ'
ἦν ἐν πολέμῳ μὲν ἄρα οὔτ' οὖν παιδιὰ πεφυκυῖα οὔτ' αὖ
παιδεία ποτὲ ἡμῖν ἀξιόλογος, οὔτε οὖσα οὔτ' ἐσομένη, δή
φαμεν ἡμῖν γε εἶναι σπουδαιότατον· δεῖ δὴ τὸν κατ' εἰρήνην
βίον ἕκαστον πλεῖστόν τε καὶ ἄριστον διεξελθεῖν. τίς οὖν
803e ὀρθότης; παίζοντά ἐστιν διαβιωτέον τινὰς δὴ παιδιάς, θύοντα
καὶ ᾄδοντα καὶ ὀρχούμενον, ὥστε τοὺς μὲν θεοὺς ἵλεως αὑτῷ
παρασκευάζειν δυνατὸν εἶναι, τοὺς δ' ἐχθροὺς ἀμύνεσθαι καὶ
νικᾶν μαχόμενον· ὁποῖα δὲ ᾄδων ἄν τις καὶ ὀρχούμενος ἀμφότερα
ταῦτα πράττοι, τὸ μὲν τῶν τύπων εἴρηται καὶ καθάπερ
ὁδοὶ τέτμηνται καθ' ἃς ἰτέον, προσδοκῶντα καὶ τὸν ποιητὴν
εὖ λέγειν τὸ
804a Τηλέμαχ', ἄλλα μὲν αὐτὸς ἐνὶ φρεσὶ σῇσι νοήσεις,
ἄλλα δὲ καὶ δαίμων ὑποθήσεται· οὐ γὰρ ὀίω
οὔ σε θεῶν ἀέκητι γενέσθαι τε τραφέμεν τε.
ταὐτὸν δὴ καὶ τοὺς ἡμετέρους τροφίμους δεῖ διανοουμένους τὰ
μὲν εἰρημένα ἀποχρώντως νομίζειν εἰρῆσθαι, τὰ δὲ καὶ τὸν
δαίμονά τε καὶ θεὸν αὐτοῖσιν ὑποθήσεσθαι θυσιῶν τε πέρι
804b καὶ χορειῶν, οἷστισί τε καὶ ὁπότε ἕκαστα ἑκάστοις προσπαίζοντές
τε καὶ ἱλεούμενοι κατὰ τὸν τρόπον τῆς φύσεως διαβιώσονται,
θαύματα ὄντες τὸ πολύ, σμικρὰ δὲ ἀληθείας ἄττα
μετέχοντες.
Ath.Now they imagine that serious work should be done for the sake of play; for they think that it is for the sake of peace that the serious work of war needs to be well conducted. But as a matter of fact we, it would seem, do not find in war, either as existing or likely to exist, either real play or education worthy of the name, which is what we assert to be in our eyes the most serious thing. It is the life of peace that everyone should live as much and as well as he can. What then is the right way? We should live out our lives playing at certain pastimes—sacrificing, singing and dancing—so as to be able to win Heaven’s favor and to repel our foes and vanquish them in fight.

By means of what kinds of song and dance both these aims may be effected,—this has been, in part, stated in outline, and the paths of procedure have been marked out, in the belief that the poet is right when he says— Telemachus, thine own wit will in partInstruct thee, and the rest will Heaven supply;For to the will of Heaven thou owest birthAnd all thy nurture, I would fain believe.Hom. Od. 3.26It behoves our nurslings also to be of this same mind, and to believe that what we have said is sufficient, and that the heavenly powers will suggest to them all else that concerns sacrifice and the dance,— in honor of what gods and at what seasons respectively they are to play and win their favor, and thus mold their lives according to the shape of their nature, inasmuch as they are puppets for the most part, yet share occasionally in truth.

ΜΕ.Παντάπασι τὸ τῶν ἀνθρώπων γένος ἡμῖν, ξένε,
διαφαυλίζεις.
Meg.You have a very mean opinion, Stranger, of the human race.
ΑΘ.Μὴ θαυμάσῃς, Μέγιλλε, ἀλλὰ σύγγνωθί μοι· πρὸς
γὰρ τὸν θεὸν ἀπιδὼν καὶ παθὼν εἶπον ὅπερ εἴρηκα νῦν. ἔστω
δ' οὖν τὸ γένος ἡμῶν μὴ φαῦλον, εἴ σοι φίλον, σπουδῆς δέ
804c τινος ἄξιον.
Τὸ δ' ἑξῆς τούτοις, οἰκοδομίαι μὲν εἴρηνται γυμνασίων
ἅμα καὶ διδασκαλείων κοινῶν τριχῇ κατὰ μέσην τὴν πόλιν,
ἔξωθεν δὲ ἵππων αὖ τριχῇ περὶ τὸ ἄστυ γυμνάσιά τε καὶ
εὐρυχώρια, τοξικῆς τε καὶ τῶν ἄλλων ἀκροβολισμῶν ἕνεκα
διακεκοσμημένα, μαθήσεώς τε ἅμα καὶ μελέτης τῶν νέων· εἰ
δ' ἄρα μὴ τότε ἱκανῶς ἐρρήθησαν, νῦν εἰρήσθω τῷ λόγῳ μετὰ
νόμων. ἐν δὲ τούτοις πᾶσιν διδασκάλους ἑκάστων πεπεισμένους
804d μισθοῖς οἰκοῦντας ξένους διδάσκειν τε πάντα ὅσα
πρὸς τὸν πόλεμόν ἐστιν μαθήματα τοὺς φοιτῶντας ὅσα τε
πρὸς μουσικήν, οὐχ ὃν μὲν ἂν πατὴρ βούληται, φοιτῶντα,
ὃν δ' ἂν μή, ἐῶντα τὰς παιδείας, ἀλλὰ τὸ λεγόμενον πάντ'
ἄνδρα καὶ παῖδα κατὰ τὸ δυνατόν, ὡς τῆς πόλεως μᾶλλον
τῶν γεννητόρων ὄντας, παιδευτέον ἐξ ἀνάγκης. τὰ αὐτὰ δὲ
δὴ καὶ περὶ θηλειῶν μὲν ἐμὸς νόμος ἂν εἴποι πάντα ὅσαπερ
804e καὶ περὶ τῶν ἀρρένων, ἴσα καὶ τὰς θηλείας ἀσκεῖν δεῖν· καὶ
οὐδὲν φοβηθεὶς εἴποιμ' ἂν τοῦτον τὸν λόγον οὔτε ἱππικῆς
οὔτε γυμναστικῆς, ὡς ἀνδράσι μὲν πρέπον ἂν εἴη, γυναιξὶ
δὲ οὐκ ἂν πρέπον. ἀκούων μὲν γὰρ δὴ μύθους παλαιοὺς
πέπεισμαι, τὰ δὲ νῦν ὡς ἔπος εἰπεῖν οἶδα ὅτι μυριάδες
ἀναρίθμητοι γυναικῶν εἰσι τῶν περὶ τὸν Πόντον, ἃς Σαυρομάτιδας
805a καλοῦσιν, αἷς οὐχ ἵππων μόνον ἀλλὰ καὶ τόξων καὶ
τῶν ἄλλων ὅπλων κοινωνία καὶ τοῖς ἀνδράσιν ἴση προστεταγμένη
ἴσως ἀσκεῖται. λογισμὸν δὲ πρὸς τούτοις περὶ τούτων
τοιόνδε τινὰ ἔχω· φημί, εἴπερ ταῦτα οὕτω συμβαίνειν ἐστὶν
δυνατά, πάντων ἀνοητότατα τὰ νῦν ἐν τοῖς παρ' ἡμῖν τόποις
γίγνεσθαι τὸ μὴ πάσῃ ῥώμῃ πάντας ὁμοθυμαδὸν ἐπιτηδεύειν
ἄνδρας γυναιξὶν ταὐτά. σχεδὸν γὰρ ὀλίγου πᾶσα ἡμίσεια
πόλις ἀντὶ διπλασίας οὕτως ἔστιν τε καὶ γίγνεται ἐκ τῶν
805b αὐτῶν τελῶν καὶ πόνων· καίτοι θαυμαστὸν ἂν ἁμάρτημα
νομοθέτῃ τοῦτ' αὐτὸ γίγνοιτο.
Ath.Marvel not, Megillus, but forgive me. For when I spoke thus, I had my mind set on God, and was feeling the emotion to which I gave utterance. Let us grant, however, if you wish, that the human race is not a mean thing, but worthy of serious attention. To pursue our subject,—we have described buildings for public gymnasia as well as schools in three divisions within the city, and also in three divisions round about the City training-grounds and race-courses for horses, arranged for archery and other long-distance shooting, and for the teaching and practicing of the youth: if, however, our previous description of these was inadequate, let them now be described and legally regulated. In all these establishments there should reside teachers attracted by pay from abroad for each several subject, to instruct the pupils in all matters relating to war and to music; and no father shall either send his son as a pupil or keep him away from the training-school at his own sweet will, but every man jack of them all (as the saying goes) must, so far as possible, be compelled to be educated, inasmuch as they are children of the State even more than children of their parents. For females, too, my law will lay down the same regulations as for men, and training of an identical kind. I will unhesitatingly affirm that neither riding nor gymnastics, which are proper for men, are improper for women.

I believe the old tales I have heard, and I know now of my own observation, that there are practically countless myriads of women called Sauromatides, in the district of Pontus, upon whom equally with men is imposed the duty of handling bows and other weapons, as well as horses, and who practice it equally. In addition to this I allege the following argument. Since this state of things can exist, I affirm that the practice which at present prevails in our districts is a most irrational one—namely, that men and women should not all follow the same pursuits with one accord and with all their might. For thus from the same taxation and trouble there arises and exists half a State only instead of a whole one, in nearly every instance; yet surely this would be a surprising blunder for a lawgiver to commit.

ΚΛ.Ἔοικέν γε· ἔστι μέντοι πάμπολλα ἡμῖν, ξένε,
παρὰ τὰς εἰωθυίας πολιτείας τῶν νῦν λεγομένων. ἀλλὰ γὰρ
εἰπὼν τὸν μὲν λόγον ἐᾶσαι διεξελθεῖν, εὖ διελθόντος δέ, οὕτω
τὸ δοκοῦν αἱρεῖσθαι δεῖν, μάλα εἶπές τε ἐμμελῶς, πεποίηκάς
τέ με τὰ νῦν αὐτὸν ἐμαυτῷ ἐπιπλήττειν ὅτι ταῦτα εἴρηκα·
805c λέγε οὖν τὸ μετὰ ταῦτα ὅτι σοι κεχαρισμένον ἐστίν.
Clin.So it would seem; yet truly a vast number of the things now mentioned, Stranger, are in conflict with our ordinary polities.
ΑΘ.Τόδε ἔμοιγε, Κλεινία, καὶ πρόσθεν εἶπον, ὡς,
εἰ μὲν ταῦτα ἦν μὴ ἱκανῶς ἔργοις ἐληλεγμένα ὅτι δυνατά
ἐστι γίγνεσθαι, τάχα ἦν ἄν τι καὶ ἀντειπεῖν τῷ λόγῳ, νῦν
δὲ ἄλλο τί που ζητητέον ἐκείνῳ τῷ τοῦτον τὸν νόμον μηδαμῇ
δεχομένῳ, τὸ δ' ἡμέτερον διακέλευμα ἐν τούτοις οὐκ ἀποσβήσεται
τὸ μὴ οὐ λέγειν ὡς δεῖ παιδείας τε καὶ τῶν ἄλλων ὅτι
805d μάλιστα κοινωνεῖν τὸ θῆλυ γένος ἡμῖν τῷ τῶν ἀρρένων γένει.
καὶ γὰρ οὖν οὑτωσί πως δεῖ περὶ αὐτῶν διανοηθῆναι. φέρε,
μὴ μετεχουσῶν ἀνδράσι γυναικῶν κοινῇ τῆς ζωῆς πάσης,
μῶν οὐκ ἀνάγκη γενέσθαι γέ τινα τάξιν ἑτέραν αὐταῖς;
Ath.Well, but I said that we should allow the argument to run its full course, and when this is done we should adopt the conclusion we approve.
ΚΛ.Ἀνάγκη μὲν οὖν.
Clin.In this you spoke most reasonably; and you have made me now chide myself for what I said. So say on now what seems good to you.
ΑΘ.Τίνα οὖν ἔμπροσθεν τῶν νῦν ἀποδεδειγμένων θεῖμεν
ἂν τῆς κοινωνίας ταύτης ἣν νῦν αὐταῖς ἡμεῖς προστάττομεν;
πότερον ἣν Θρᾷκες ταῖς γυναιξὶν χρῶνται καὶ πολλὰ ἕτερα
805e γένη, γεωργεῖν τε καὶ βουκολεῖν καὶ ποιμαίνειν καὶ διακονεῖν
μηδὲν διαφερόντως τῶν δούλων; καθάπερ ἡμεῖς ἅπαντές
τε οἱ περὶ τὸν τόπον ἐκεῖνον; νῦν γὰρ δὴ τό γε παρ' ἡμῖν
ὧδέ ἐστιν περὶ τούτων γιγνόμενον· εἴς τινα μίαν οἴκησιν
συμφορήσαντες, τὸ λεγόμενον, πάντα χρήματα, παρέδομεν
ταῖς γυναιξὶν διαταμιεύειν τε καὶ κερκίδων ἄρχειν καὶ πάσης
ταλασίας. τὸ τούτων δὴ διὰ μέσου φῶμεν, Μέγιλλε,
806a τὸ Λακωνικόν; κόρας μὲν γυμνασίων μετόχους οὔσας ἅμα
καὶ μουσικῆς ζῆν δεῖν, γυναῖκας δὲ ἀργοὺς μὲν ταλασίας,
ἀσκητικὸν δέ τινα βίον καὶ οὐδαμῶς φαῦλον οὐδ' εὐτελῆ
διαπλέκειν, θεραπείας δὲ καὶ ταμιείας αὖ καὶ παιδοτροφίας
εἴς τι μέσον ἀφικνεῖσθαι, τῶν δ' εἰς τὸν πόλεμον μὴ κοινωνούσας,
ὥστε οὐδ' εἴ τίς ποτε διαμάχεσθαι περὶ πόλεώς τε
καὶ παίδων ἀναγκαία τύχη γίγνοιτο, οὔτ' ἂν τόξων, ὥς τινες
806b Ἀμαζόνες, οὔτ' ἄλλης κοινωνῆσαί ποτε βολῆς μετὰ τέχνης
δυνάμεναι, οὐδὲ ἀσπίδα καὶ δόρυ λαβοῦσαι μιμήσασθαι
τὴν θεόν, ὡς πορθουμένης αὐταῖς τῆς πατρίδος γενναίως
ἀντιστάσας, φόβον γε, εἰ μηδὲν μεῖζον, πολεμίοισι δύνασθαι
παρασχεῖν ἐν τάξει τινὶ κατοφθείσας; Σαυρομάτιδας δὲ οὐδ'
ἂν τὸ παράπαν τολμήσειαν μιμήσασθαι τοῦτον τὸν τρόπον
διαβιοῦσαι, παρὰ γυναῖκας δὲ αὐτὰς ἄνδρες ἂν αἱ ἐκείνων
806c γυναῖκες φανεῖεν. ταῦτ' οὖν ὑμῶν τοὺς νομοθέτας μὲν
βουλόμενος ἐπαινεῖν ἐπαινείτω, τὸ δ' ἐμὸν οὐκ ἄλλως ἂν
λεχθείη· τέλεον γὰρ καὶ οὐ διήμισυν δεῖν τὸν νομοθέτην
εἶναι, τὸ θῆλυ μὲν ἀφιέντα τρυφᾶν καὶ ἀναλίσκειν διαίταις
ἀτάκτως χρώμενον, τοῦ δὲ ἄρρενος ἐπιμεληθέντα, τελέως
σχεδὸν εὐδαίμονος ἥμισυ βίου καταλείπειν ἀντὶ διπλασίου
τῇ πόλει.
Ath.What seems good to me, Clinias, as I said before, is this,—that if the possibility of such a state of things taking place had not been sufficiently proved by facts, then it might have been possible to gainsay our statement; but as it is, the man who rejects our law must try some other method, nor shall we be hereby precluded from asserting in our doctrine that the female sex must share with the male, to the greatest extent possible, both in education and in all else. For in truth we ought to conceive of the matter in this light. Suppose that women do not share with men in the whole of their mode of life, must they not have a different system of their own?

Or again, shall we prescribe for them, Megillus, that midway system, the Laconian? Must the girls share in gymnastics and music, and the women abstain from wool-work, but weave themselves instead a life that is not trivial at all nor useless, but arduous, advancing as it were halfway in the path of domestic tendance and management and child-nurture, but taking no share in military service; so that, even if it should chance to be necessary for them to fight in defence of their city and their children, they will be unable to handle with skill either a bow (like the Amazons) or any other missile, nor could they take spear and shield, after the fashion of the Goddess, so as to be able nobly to resist the wasting of their native land, and to strike terror—if nothing more—into the enemy at the sight of them marshalled in battle-array? If they lived in this manner, they certainly would not dare to adopt the fashion of the Sauromatides, whose women would seem like men beside them. So in regard to this matter, let who will commend your Laconian lawgivers: as to my view, it must stand as it is. The lawgiver ought to be whole-hearted, not half-hearted,—letting the female sex indulge in luxury and expense and disorderly ways of life, while supervising the male sex; for thus he is actually bequeathing to the State the half only, instead of the whole, of a life of complete prosperity.

Clin.They must.

Ath.Then which of the systems now in vogue shall we prescribe in preference to that fellowship which we are now imposing upon them? Shall it be that of the Thracians, and many other tribes, who employ their women in tilling the ground and minding oxen and sheep and toiling just like slaves? Or that which obtains with us and all the people of our district? The way women are treated with us at present is this—we huddle all our goods together, as the saying goes, within four walls, and then hand over the dispensing of them to the women, together with the control of the shuttles and all kinds of wool-work.

ΜΕ.Τί δράσομεν, Κλεινία; τὸν ξένον ἐάσομεν τὴν
Σπάρτην ἡμῖν οὕτω καταδραμεῖν;
Meg.What are we to do, Clinias? Shall we allow the Stranger to run down our Sparta in this fashion?
806d ΚΛ.Ναί· δεδομένης γὰρ αὐτῷ παρρησίας ἐατέον, ἕως ἂν
διεξέλθωμεν πάντῃ ἱκανῶς τοὺς νόμους.
Clin.Yes: now that we have granted him free speech we must let him be, until we have discussed the laws fully.
ΜΕ.Ὀρθῶς λέγεις.
Meg.You are right.
ΑΘ.Οὐκοῦν τὰ μετὰ ταῦτα ἤδη σχεδὸν ἐμὸν πειρᾶσθαι
φράζειν;
Ath.May I, then, endeavor without more delay to proceed with my exposition?
ΚΛ.Πῶς γὰρ οὔ;
Clin.By all means.
ΑΘ.Τίς δὴ τρόπος ἀνθρώποις γίγνοιτ' ἂν τοῦ βίου,
οἷσιν τὰ μὲν ἀναγκαῖα εἴη κατεσκευασμένα μέτρια, τὰ δὲ
τῶν τεχνῶν ἄλλοις παραδεδομένα, γεωργίαι δὲ ἐκδεδομέναι
806e δούλοις ἀπαρχὴν τῶν ἐκ τῆς γῆς ἀποτελοῦσιν ἱκανὴν ἀνθρώποις
ζῶσι κοσμίως, συσσίτια δὲ κατεσκευασμένα εἴη χωρὶς
μὲν τὰ τῶν ἀνδρῶν, ἐγγὺς δ' ἐχόμενα τὰ τῶν αὐτοῖς οἰκείων,
παίδων τε ἅμα θηλειῶν καὶ τῶν μητέρων αὐταῖς, ἄρχουσιν
δὲ καὶ ἀρχούσαις εἴη προστεταγμένα λύειν ταῦτα ἑκάστοις
τὰ συσσίτια πάντα, καθ' ἑκάστην ἡμέραν θεασαμένους καὶ
ἰδόντας τὴν διαγωγὴν τὴν τῶν συσσίτων, μετὰ δὲ ταῦτα
807a σπείσαντας τόν τε ἄρχοντα καὶ τοὺς ἄλλους οἷς ἂν τυγχάνῃ
θεοῖς τότε νύξ τε καὶ ἡμέρα καθιερωμένη, κατὰ ταῦτα
οὕτως οἴκαδε πορεύεσθαι; τοῖς δὴ ταύτῃ κεκοσμημένοις ἆρα
οὐδὲν λειπόμενόν ἐστιν ἀναγκαῖόν τε ἔργον καὶ παντάπασι
προσῆκον, ἀλλ' ἐν τρόπῳ βοσκήματος ἕκαστον πιαινόμενον
αὐτῶν δεῖ ζῆν; οὔκουν τό γε δίκαιόν φαμεν οὐδὲ καλόν, οὐδ'
οἷόν τε τὸν ζῶντα οὕτως ἀτυχῆσαι τοῦ προσήκοντος, προσήκει
807b δὲ ἀργῷ καὶ ῥᾳθύμως καταπεπιασμένῳ ζῴῳ σχεδὸν ὑπ' ἄλλου
διαρπασθῆναι ζῴου τῶν σφόδρα τετρυχωμένων μετὰ ἀνδρείας
τε ἅμα καὶ τῶν πόνων. ταῦτα οὖν δὴ δι' ἀκριβείας μὲν
ἱκανῆς, ὡς καὶ νῦν, εἰ ζητοῖμεν ἄν, ἴσως οὐκ ἄν ποτε γένοιτο,
μέχριπερ ἂν γυναῖκές τε καὶ παῖδες οἰκήσεις τε ἴδιαι
καὶ ἰδίως ἅπαντ' τὰ τοιαῦτα ἑκάστοις ἡμῶν κατεσκευασμένα·
τὰ δὲ μετ' ἐκεῖν' αὖ δεύτερα τὰ νῦν λεγόμενα εἰ
807c γίγνοιτο ἡμῖν, γίγνοιτο ἂν καὶ μάλα μετρίως. ἔργον δὲ δὴ
τοῖς οὕτω ζῶσίν φαμεν οὐ τὸ σμικρότατον οὐδὲ τὸ φαυλότατον
λείπεσθαι, μέγιστον δὲ πάντων εἶναι προστεταγμένον
ὑπὸ δικαίου νόμου· τοῦ γὰρ πᾶσαν τῶν ἄλλων πάντων
ἔργων βίου ἀσχολίαν παρασκευάζοντος, τοῦ Πυθιάδος τε καὶ
Ὀλυμπιάδος νίκης ὀρεγομένου, διπλασίας τε καὶ ἔτι πολλῷ
πλέονος ἀσχολίας ἐστὶν γέμων περὶ τὴν τοῦ σώματος
πάντως καὶ ψυχῆς εἰς ἀρετῆς ἐπιμέλειαν βίος εἰρημένος
807d ὀρθότατα. πάρεργον γὰρ οὐδὲν δεῖ τῶν ἄλλων ἔργων διακώλυμα
γίγνεσθαι τῶν τῷ σώματι προσηκόντων εἰς ἀπόδοσιν
πόνων καὶ τροφῆς, οὐδ' αὖ ψυχῇ μαθημάτων τε καὶ ἐθῶν,
πᾶσα δὲ νύξ τε καὶ ἡμέρα σχεδὸν οὐκ ἔστιν ἱκανὴ τοῦτ'
αὐτὸ πράττοντι τὸ τέλεόν τε καὶ ἱκανὸν αὐτῶν ἐκλαμβάνειν·
οὕτω δὴ τούτων πεφυκότων, τάξιν δεῖ γίγνεσθαι πᾶσιν τοῖς
ἐλευθέροις τῆς διατριβῆς περὶ τὸν χρόνον ἅπαντα, σχεδὸν
807e ἀρξάμενον ἐξ ἕω μέχρι τῆς ἑτέρας ἀεὶ συνεχῶς ἕω τε καὶ
ἡλίου ἀνατολῆς. πολλὰ μὲν οὖν καὶ πυκνὰ καὶ σμικρὰ λέγων
ἄν τις νομοθέτης ἀσχήμων φαίνοιτο περὶ τῶν κατ' οἰκίαν
διοικήσεων, τά τε ἄλλα καὶ ὅσα νύκτωρ ἀυπνίας πέρι πρέπει
τοῖς μέλλουσιν διὰ τέλους φυλάξειν πᾶσαν πόλιν ἀκριβῶς.
τὸ γὰρ ὅλην διατελεῖν ἡντινοῦν νύκτα εὕδοντα καὶ ὁντινοῦν
τῶν πολιτῶν, καὶ μὴ φανερὸν εἶναι πᾶσι τοῖς οἰκέταις ἐγειρόμενόν
808a τε καὶ ἐξανιστάμενον ἀεὶ πρῶτον, τοῦτο αἰσχρὸν δεῖ
δεδόχθαι πᾶσι καὶ οὐκ ἐλευθέρου, εἴτ' οὖν νόμον εἴτ' ἐπιτήδευμα
τὸ τοιοῦτον καλεῖν ἐστιν χρεών· καὶ δὴ καὶ δέσποιναν
ἐν οἰκίᾳ ὑπὸ θεραπαινίδων ἐγείρεσθαί τινων καὶ μὴ πρώτην
αὐτὴν ἐγείρειν τὰς ἄλλας, αἰσχρὸν λέγειν χρὴ πρὸς αὑτοὺς
δοῦλόν τε καὶ δούλην καὶ παῖδα, καὶ εἴ πως ἦν οἷόν τε, ὅλην
καὶ πᾶσαν τὴν οἰκίαν. ἐγειρομένους δὲ νύκτωρ δεῖ πάντας
808b πράττειν τῶν τε πολιτικῶν μέρη πολλὰ καὶ τῶν οἰκονομικῶν,
ἄρχοντας μὲν κατὰ πόλιν, δεσποίνας δὲ καὶ δεσπότας ἐν
ἰδίαις οἰκίαις. ὕπνος γὰρ δὴ πολὺς οὔτε τοῖς σώμασιν οὔτε
ταῖς ψυχαῖς ἡμῶν οὐδ' αὖ ταῖς πράξεσιν ταῖς περὶ ταῦτα
πάντα ἁρμόττων ἐστὶν κατὰ φύσιν. καθεύδων γὰρ οὐδεὶς
οὐδενὸς ἄξιος, οὐδὲν μᾶλλον τοῦ μὴ ζῶντος· ἀλλ' ὅστις τοῦ
ζῆν ἡμῶν καὶ τοῦ φρονεῖν μάλιστά ἐστι κηδεμών, ἐγρήγορε
808c χρόνον ὡς πλεῖστον, τὸ πρὸς ὑγίειαν αὐτοῦ μόνον φυλάττων
χρήσιμον, ἔστιν δὲ οὐ πολύ, καλῶς εἰς ἔθος ἰόν. ἐγρηγορότες
δὲ ἄρχοντες ἐν πόλεσιν νύκτωρ φοβεροὶ μὲν κακοῖς, πολεμίοις
τε ἅμα καὶ πολίταις, ἀγαστοὶ δὲ καὶ τίμιοι τοῖς δικαίοις
τε καὶ σώφροσιν, ὠφέλιμοι δὲ αὑτοῖς τε καὶ συμπάσῃ τῇ
πόλει.
Νὺξ μὲν δὴ διαγομένη τοιαύτη τις πρὸς πᾶσι τοῖς εἰρημένοις
ἀνδρείαν ἄν τινα προσπαρέχοιτο ταῖς ψυχαῖς ἑκάστων
808d τῶν ἐν ταῖς πόλεσιν· ἡμέρας δὲ ὄρθρου τε ἐπανιόντων παῖδας
μὲν πρὸς διδασκάλους που τρέπεσθαι χρεών, ἄνευ ποιμένος
δὲ οὔτε πρόβατα οὔτ' ἄλλο οὐδέν πω βιωτέον, οὐδὲ δὴ παῖδας
ἄνευ τινῶν παιδαγωγῶν οὐδὲ δούλους ἄνευ δεσποτῶν. δὲ
παῖς πάντων θηρίων ἐστὶ δυσμεταχειριστότατον· ὅσῳ γὰρ
μάλιστα ἔχει πηγὴν τοῦ φρονεῖν μήπω κατηρτυμένην, ἐπίβουλον
καὶ δριμὺ καὶ ὑβριστότατον θηρίων γίγνεται. διὸ δὴ
808e πολλοῖς αὐτὸ οἷον χαλινοῖς τισιν δεῖ δεσμεύειν, πρῶτον μέν,
τροφῶν καὶ μητέρων ὅταν ἀπαλλάττηται, παιδαγωγοῖς παιδίας
καὶ νηπιότητος χάριν, ἔτι δ' αὖ τοῖς διδάσκουσιν καὶ ὁτιοῦν καὶ
μαθήμασιν ὡς ἐλεύθερον· ὡς δ' αὖ δοῦλον, πᾶς προστυγχάνων
τῶν ἐλευθέρων ἀνδρῶν κολαζέτω τόν τε παῖδα αὐτὸν
καὶ τὸν παιδαγωγὸν καὶ διδάσκαλον, ἐὰν ἐξαμαρτάνῃ τίς τι
τούτων. ἂν δ' αὖ προστυγχάνων τις μὴ κολάζῃ τῇ δίκῃ,
ὀνείδει μὲν ἐνεχέσθω πρῶτον τῷ μεγίστῳ, δὲ τῶν νομοφυλάκων
809a ἐπὶ τὴν τῶν παίδων ἀρχὴν ᾑρημένος ἐπισκοπείτω
τοῦτον τὸν ἐντυγχάνοντα οἷς λέγομεν καὶ μὴ κολάζοντα δέον
κολάζειν, κολάζοντα μὴ κατὰ τρόπον, βλέπων δὲ ἡμῖν ὀξὺ
καὶ διαφερόντως ἐπιμελούμενος τῆς τῶν παίδων τροφῆς
κατευθυνέτω τὰς φύσεις αὐτῶν, ἀεὶ τρέπων πρὸς τἀγαθὸν
κατὰ νόμους. τοῦτον δὲ αὐτὸν αὖ πῶς ἂν ἡμῖν νόμος
αὐτὸς παιδεύσειεν ἱκανῶς; νῦν μὲν γὰρ δὴ εἴρηκεν οὐδέν πω
809b σαφὲς οὐδὲ ἱκανόν, ἀλλὰ τὰ μέν, τὰ δ' οὔ· δεῖ δὲ εἰς δύναμιν
μηδὲν παραλείπειν αὐτῷ, πάντα δὲ λόγον ἀφερμηνεύειν, ἵνα
οὗτος τοῖς ἄλλοις μηνυτής τε ἅμα καὶ τροφεὺς γίγνηται. τὰ
μὲν οὖν δὴ χορείας πέρι μελῶν τε καὶ ὀρχήσεως ἐρρήθη,
τίνα τύπον ἔχοντα ἐκλεκτέα τέ ἐστιν καὶ ἐπανορθωτέα καὶ
καθιερωτέα· τὰ δὲ ἐν γράμμασι μὲν ὄντα, ἄνευ δὲ μέτρων,
ποῖα καὶ τίνα μεταχειρίζεσθαι χρή σοι τρόπον, ἄριστε τῶν
809c παίδων ἐπιμελητά, τοὺς ὑπὸ σοῦ τρεφομένους, οὐκ εἰρήκαμεν.
καίτοι τὰ μὲν περὶ τὸν πόλεμον δεῖ μανθάνειν τε αὐτοὺς
καὶ μελετᾶν ἔχεις τῷ λόγῳ, τὰ δὲ περὶ τὰ γράμματα πρῶτον,
καὶ δεύτερον λύρας πέρι καὶ λογισμῶν, ὧν ἔφαμεν δεῖν ὅσα
τε πρὸς πόλεμον καὶ οἰκονομίαν καὶ τὴν κατὰ πόλιν διοίκησιν
χρῆναι ἑκάστους λαβεῖν, καὶ πρὸς τὰ αὐτὰ ταῦτα ἔτι τὰ
χρήσιμα τῶν ἐν ταῖς περιόδοις τῶν θείων, ἄστρων τε πέρι
καὶ ἡλίου καὶ σελήνης, ὅσα διοικεῖν ἀναγκαῖόν ἐστιν περὶ
809d ταῦτα πάσῃ πόλειτίνων δὴ πέρι λέγομεν; ἡμερῶν τάξεως
εἰς μηνῶν περιόδους καὶ μηνῶν εἰς ἕκαστον τὸν ἐνιαυτόν,
ἵνα ὧραι καὶ θυσίαι καὶ ἑορταὶ τὰ προσήκοντ' ἀπολαμβάνουσαι
ἑαυταῖς ἕκασται τῷ κατὰ φύσιν ἄγεσθαι, ζῶσαν τὴν
πόλιν καὶ ἐγρηγορυῖαν παρεχόμεναι, θεοῖς μὲν τὰς τιμὰς
ἀποδιδῶσιν, τοὺς δὲ ἀνθρώπους περὶ αὐτὰ μᾶλλον ἔμφρονας
ἀπεργάζωνταιταῦτα οὔπω σοι πάντα ἱκανῶς, φίλε, παρὰ
809e τοῦ νομοθέτου διείρηται· πρόσεχε δὴ τὸν νοῦν τοῖς μετὰ ταῦτα
μέλλουσιν ῥηθήσεσθαι. γραμμάτων εἴπομεν ὡς οὐχ ἱκανῶς
ἔχεις πέρι τὸ πρῶτον, ἐπικαλοῦντες τί τῇ λέξει; τόδε, ὡς
οὔπω διείρηκέ σοι πότερον εἰς ἀκρίβειαν τοῦ μαθήματος
ἰτέον τὸν μέλλοντα πολίτην ἔσεσθαι μέτριον τὸ παράπαν
οὐδὲ προσοιστέον· ὡς δ' αὕτως καὶ περὶ λύραν. προσοιστέον
μέντοι νῦν φαμεν. εἰς μὲν γράμματα παιδὶ δεκετεῖ σχεδὸν
ἐνιαυτοὶ τρεῖς, λύρας δὲ ἅψασθαι τρία μὲν ἔτη καὶ δέκα
810a γεγονόσιν ἄρχεσθαι μέτριος χρόνος, ἐμμεῖναι δὲ ἕτερα
τρία. καὶ μήτε πλείω τούτων μήτ' ἐλάττω πατρὶ μηδ' αὐτῷ,
φιλομαθοῦντι μηδὲ μισοῦντι, περὶ ταῦτα ἐξέστω μείζω μηδὲ
ἐλάττω διατριβὴν ποιεῖσθαι παράνομον· δὲ μὴ πειθόμενος
ἄτιμος τῶν παιδείων ἔστω τιμῶν, ἃς ὀλίγον ὕστερον ῥητέον.
μανθάνειν δὲ ἐν τούτοις τοῖς χρόνοις δὴ τί ποτε δεῖ τοὺς
νέους καὶ διδάσκειν αὖ τοὺς διδασκάλους, τοῦτο αὐτὸ πρῶτον
810b μάνθανε. γράμματα μὲν τοίνυν χρὴ τὸ μέχρι τοῦ γράψαι
τε καὶ ἀναγνῶναι δυνατὸν εἶναι διαπονεῖν· πρὸς τάχος δὲ
κάλλος ἀπηκριβῶσθαί τισιν, οἷς μὴ φύσις ἐπέσπευσεν ἐν
τοῖς τεταγμένοις ἔτεσιν, χαίρειν ἐᾶν. πρὸς δὲ δὴ μαθήματα
ἄλυρα ποιητῶν κείμενα ἐν γράμμασι, τοῖς μὲν μετὰ μέτρων,
τοῖς δ' ἄνευ ῥυθμῶν τμημάτων, δὴ συγγράμματα κατὰ λόγον
εἰρημένα μόνον, τητώμενα ῥυθμοῦ τε καὶ ἁρμονίας, σφαλερὰ
810c γράμμαθ' ἡμῖν ἐστιν παρά τινων τῶν πολλῶν τοιούτων ἀνθρώπων
καταλελειμμένα· οἷς, πάντων βέλτιστοι νομοφύλακες,
τί χρήσεσθε; τί ποθ' ὑμῖν νομοθέτης χρῆσθαι προστάξας
ὀρθῶς ἂν τάξειε; καὶ μάλα ἀπορήσειν αὐτὸν προσδοκῶ.
Ath.What manner of life would men live, supposing that they possessed a moderate supply of all the necessaries, and that they had entrusted all the crafts to other hands, and that their farms were hired out to slaves, and yielded them produce enough for their modest needs? Let us further suppose that they had public mess-rooms—separate rooms for men, and others close by for their households, including the girls and their mothers—

and that each of these rooms was in charge of a master or mistress, to dismiss the company and to watch over their behavior daily; and, at the close of the meal, that the master and all the company poured a libation in honor of those gods to whom that night and day were dedicated, and so finally retired home. Supposing them to be thus organized, is there no necessary work, of a really appropriate kind, left for them, but must every one of them continue fattening himself like a beast? That, we assert, is neither right nor good; nor is it possible for one who lives thus to miss his due reward; and the due reward of an idle beast, fattened in sloth, is, as a rule, to fall a prey to another beast—one of those which are worn to skin and bone through toil hardily endured. Now it is probable that if we look to find this state of leisure fully realized exactly as described, we shall be disappointed, so long as women and children and houses remain private, and all these things are established as the private property of individuals; but if the second-best State, as now described, could exist, we might be well content with it. And, we assert, there does remain for men living this life a task that is by no means small or trivial, but rather one that a just law imposes upon them as the weightiest task of all. For as compared with the life that aims at a Pythian or Olympian victory and is wholly lacking in leisure for other tasks, that life we speak of—which most truly deserves the name of life—is doubly (nay, far more than doubly) lacking in leisure, seeing that it is occupied with the care of bodily and spiritual excellence in general. For there ought to be no other secondary task to hinder the work of supplying the body with its proper exercise and nourishment, or the soul with learning and moral training: nay, every night and day is not sufficient for the man who is occupied therein to win from them their fruit in full and ample measure. So this being nature’s law, a program must be framed for all the freeborn men, prescribing how they shall pass their time continuously, from dawn to dawn and sunrise on each successive day. It would be undignified for a lawgiver to mention a host of petty matters connected with the domestic arrangements—such as, in particular, the rules about that wakefulness at night which is proper for men who propose to guard a whole State adequately and continuously.

That any citizen, indeed, should spend the whole of any night in sleep, instead of setting an example to his household by being himself always the first to awaken and rise—such a practice must be counted by all a shameful one, unworthy of a free man, whether it be called a custom or a law. Moreover, that the mistress of a house should be awakened by maids, instead of being herself the first to wake up all the others—this is a shameful practice; and that it is so all the servants must declare to one another—bondman and bondmaid and boy, yea, even (were it possible) every stone in the house. And, when awake by night, they must certainly transact a large share of business, both political and economical, the magistrates in the city, and the masters and mistresses in their own houses. For much sleep is not naturally suitable either to our bodies or souls, nor yet to employment on any such matters. For when asleep no man is worth anything, any more than if he were dead: on the contrary, every one of us who cares most greatly for life and thought keeps awake as long as possible, only reserving so much time for sleep as his health requires— and that is but little, once the habit is well formed. And rulers that are watchful by night in cities are a terror to evil-doers, be they citizens or enemies, but objects of respect and admiration to the just and temperate; and they confer benefit alike on themselves and on the whole State. The night, if spent in this way, will—in addition to all the other benefits described—lend greater fortitude to the souls of all who reside in these States. With the return of daylight the children should go to their teachers; for just as no sheep or other witless creature ought to exist without a herdsman, so children cannot live without a tutor, nor slaves without a master. And, of all wild creatures, the child is the most intractable; for in so far as it, above all others, possesses a fount of reason that is as yet uncurbed, it is a treacherous, sly and most insolent creature. Wherefore the child must be strapped up, as it were, with many bridles—first, when he leaves the care of nurse and mother, with tutors, to guide his childish ignorance, and after that with teachers of all sorts of subjects and lessons, treating him as becomes a freeborn child. On the other hand, he must be treated as a slave; and any free man that meets him shall punish both the child himself and his tutor or teacher, if any of them does wrong.

And if anyone thus meets them and fails to punish them duly, he shall, in the first place, be liable to the deepest degradation; and the Law-warden who is chosen as president over the children shall keep his eye on the man who has met with the wrong-doings mentioned and has failed either to inflict the needed punishment at all, or else to inflict it rightly. Moreover, this Law-warden shall exercise special supervision, with a keen eye, over the rearing of the children, to keep their growing natures in the straight way, by turning them always towards goodness, as the laws direct. But how is the law itself to give an adequate education to this Law-warden of ours? For, up to the present, the law has not as yet made any clear or adequate statement: it has mentioned some things, but omitted others. But in dealing with this warden it must omit nothing, but fully expound every ordinance that he may be both expositor and nurturer to the rest. Matters of choristry of tunes and dancing, and what types are to be selected, remodelled, and consecrated—all this has already been dealt with; but with regard to the kind of literature that is written but without meter we have never put the question—O excellent supervisor of children, of what sort ought this prose to be, and in what fashion are your charges to deal with it? You know from our discourse what are the military exercises they ought to learn and to practice, but the matters that have not as yet, my friend, been fully declared to you by the lawgiver are these—first, literature, next, lyre-playing; also arithmetic, of which I said that there ought to be as much as everyone needs to learn for purposes of war, house-management and civic administration; together with what it is useful for these same purposes to learn about the courses of the heavenly bodies—stars and sun and moon—in so far as every State is obliged to take them into account. What I allude to is this—the arranging of days into monthly periods, and of months into a year, in each instance, so that the seasons, with their respective sacrifices and feasts, may each be assigned its due position by being held as nature dictates, and that thus they may create fresh liveliness and alertness in the State, and may pay their due honors to the gods, and may render the citizens more intelligent about these matters. These points, my friend, have not all as yet been explained to you sufficiently by the lawgiver. Now attend carefully to what is next to be said. In the first place, you are, as we said, insufficiently instructed as yet concerning letters. The point we complain of is this—that the law has not yet told you clearly whether the man who is to be a good citizen must pursue this study with precision, or neglect it altogether; and so likewise with regard to the lyre. That he must not neglect them we now affirm.

For the study of letters, about three years is a reasonable period for a child of ten years old; and for lyre-playing, he should begin at thirteen and continue at it for three years. And whether he likes or dislikes the study, neither the child nor his father shall be permitted either to cut short or to prolong the years of study contrary to the law; and anyone who disobeys shall be disqualified for the school honors which we shall mention presently. And, during these periods, what are the subjects which the children must learn and the teachers teach—this you yourself must learn first. They must work at letters sufficiently to be able to read and write. But superior speed or beauty of handwriting need not be required in the case of those whose progress within the appointed period is too slow. With regard to lessons in reading, there are written compositions not set to music, whether in meter or without rhythmical divisions—compositions merely uttered in prose, void of rhythm and harmony; and some of the many composers of this sort have bequeathed to us writings of a dangerous character. How will you deal with these, O my most excellent Law-wardens? Or what method of dealing with them will the lawgiver rightly ordain? He will be vastly perplexed, I verily believe.

ΚΛ.Τί ποτε τοῦτο, ξένε, φαίνῃ πρὸς σαυτὸν ὄντως
ἠπορηκὼς λέγειν;
Clin.What does this mean, Stranger? Evidently you are addressing yourself, and are really perplexed.
ΑΘ.Ὀρθῶς ὑπέλαβες, Κλεινία. πρὸς δὲ δὴ κοινωνοὺς
ὑμᾶς ὄντας περὶ νόμων ἀνάγκη τό τε φαινόμενον εὔπορον καὶ
τὸ μὴ φράζειν.
Ath.You are right in your supposition, Clinias. As you are my partners in this investigation of laws, I am bound to explain to you both what seems easy and what hard.
810d ΚΛ.Τί οὖν; τί περὶ τούτων νῦν καὶ ποῖόν τι πεπονθὼς
λέγεις;
Clin.Well, what is it about them that you are now alluding to, and what has come over you?
ΑΘ.Ἐρῶ δή· στόμασι γὰρ πολλάκις μυρίοις ἐναντία
λέγειν οὐδαμῶς εὔπορον.
Ath.I will tell you: it is no easy matter to gainsay tens of thousands of tongues.
ΚΛ.Τί δέ; σμικρὰ καὶ ὀλίγα δοκεῖ σοι τὰ ἔμπροσθεν
ἡμῖν εἰρημένα περὶ νόμων κεῖσθαι τοῖς πολλοῖς ὑπεναντία;
Clin.Come now,—do you believe that the points in which our previous conclusions about laws contradicted ordinary opinion were few and trifling?
ΑΘ.Καὶ μάλα ἀληθὲς τοῦτό γε λέγεις· κελεύεις γὰρ δή
με, ὡς ἐμοὶ φαίνεται, τῆς αὐτῆς ὁδοῦ ἐχθοδοποῦ γεγονυίας
πολλοῖςἴσως δ' οὐκ ἐλάττοσιν ἑτέροις προσφιλοῦς· εἰ δὲ
810e ἐλάττοσιν, οὔκουν χείροσί γεμεθ' ὧν διακελεύῃ με παρακινδυνεύοντά
τε καὶ θαρροῦντα τὴν νῦν ἐκ τῶν παρόντων
λόγων τετμημένην ὁδὸν τῆς νομοθεσίας πορεύεσθαι μηδὲν
ἀνιέντα.
Ath.Your observation is most just. I take it that you are bidding me, now that the path which is abhorrent to many is attractive to others possibly not less numerous (or if less numerous, certainly not less competent),—you are, I say, bidding me adventure myself with the latter company and proceed boldly along the path of legislation marked out in our present discourse, without flinching.
ΚΛ.Τί μήν;
Clin.Certainly.
ΑΘ.Οὐ τοίνυν ἀνίημι. λέγω μὴν ὅτι ποιηταί τε ἡμῖν
εἰσίν τινες ἐπῶν ἑξαμέτρων πάμπολλοι καὶ τριμέτρων καὶ
πάντων δὴ τῶν λεγομένων μέτρων, οἱ μὲν ἐπὶ σπουδήν, οἱ δ'
ἐπὶ γέλωτα ὡρμηκότες, ἐν οἷς φασι δεῖν οἱ πολλάκις μυρίοι
τοὺς ὀρθῶς παιδευομένους τῶν νέων τρέφειν καὶ διακορεῖς
ποιεῖν, πολυηκόους τ' ἐν ταῖς ἀναγνώσεσιν ποιοῦντας καὶ
811a πολυμαθεῖς, ὅλους ποιητὰς ἐκμανθάνοντας· οἱ δὲ ἐκ πάντων
κεφάλαια ἐκλέξαντες καί τινας ὅλας ῥήσεις εἰς ταὐτὸν συναγαγόντες,
ἐκμανθάνειν φασὶ δεῖν εἰς μνήμην τιθεμένους, εἰ
μέλλει τις ἀγαθὸς ἡμῖν καὶ σοφὸς ἐκ πολυπειρίας καὶ
πολυμαθίας γενέσθαι. τούτοις δὴ σὺ κελεύεις ἐμὲ τὰ νῦν
παρρησιαζόμενον ἀποφαίνεσθαι τί τε καλῶς λέγουσι καὶ
τί μή;
Ath.Then I will not flinch. I verily affirm that we have composers of verses innumerable—hexameters, trimeters, and every meter you could mention,—some of whom aim at the serious, others at the comic; on whose writings, as we are told by our tens of thousands of people, we ought to rear and soak the young, if we are to give them a correct education, making them, by means of recitations, lengthy listeners and large learners, who learn off whole poets by heart. Others there are who compile select summaries of all the poets, and piece together whole passages, telling us that a boy must commit these to memory and learn them off if we are to have him turn out good and wise as a result of a wide and varied range of instruction. Would you have me now state frankly to these poets what is wrong about their declarations and what right?
ΚΛ.Πῶς γὰρ οὔ;
Clin.Of course.
ΑΘ.Τί δή ποτ' ἂν οὖν περὶ ἁπάντων τούτων ἑνὶ λόγῳ
811b φράζων εἴποιμ' ἂν ἱκανόν; οἶμαι μὲν τὸ τοιόνδε σχεδόν,
καὶ πᾶς ἄν μοι συγχωρήσειεν, πολλὰ μὲν ἕκαστον τούτων
εἰρηκέναι καλῶς, πολλὰ δὲ καὶ τοὐναντίον· εἰ δ' οὕτω
τοῦτ' ἔχει, κίνδυνόν φημι εἶναι φέρουσαν τοῖς παισὶν τὴν
πολυμαθίαν.
Ath.What single statement can I make about all these people that will be adequate? This, perhaps,—in which everyone will agree with me,—that every poet has uttered much that is well, and much also that is ill; and this being so, I affirm that a wide range of learning involves danger to children.
ΚΛ.Πῶς οὖν καὶ τί παραινοίης ἂν τῷ νομοφύλακι;
Clin.What advice then would you give the Law-warden?
ΑΘ.Τοῦ πέρι λέγεις;
Ath.About what?
ΚΛ.Τοῦ πρὸς τί παράδειγμά ποτε ἀποβλέψας ἂν τὸ μὲν
811c ἐῴη πάντας μανθάνειν τοὺς νέους, τὸ δ' ἀποκωλύοι. λέγε καὶ
μηδὲν ἀπόκνει λέγων.
Clin.About the pattern by which he should be guided in respect of the particular subjects which he permits or forbids all the children to learn. Tell us, and without scruple.
ΑΘ.Ὠγαθὲ Κλεινία, κινδυνεύω κατά γέ τινα τρόπον
ηὐτυχηκέναι.
Ath.My good Clinias, I have had, it would seem, a stroke of luck.
ΚΛ.Τοῦ δὴ πέρι;
Clin.How so?
ΑΘ.Τοῦ μὴ παντάπασι παραδείγματος ἀπορεῖν. νῦν
γὰρ ἀποβλέψας πρὸς τοὺς λόγους οὓς ἐξ ἕω μέχρι δεῦρο δὴ
διεληλύθαμεν ἡμεῖςὡς μὲν ἐμοὶ φαινόμεθα, οὐκ ἄνευ τινὸς
ἐπιπνοίας θεῶνἔδοξαν δ' οὖν μοι παντάπασι ποιήσει τινὶ
προσομοίως εἰρῆσθαι. καί μοι ἴσως οὐδὲν θαυμαστὸν πάθος
811d ἐπῆλθε, λόγους οἰκείους οἷον ἁθρόους ἐπιβλέψαντι μάλα
ἡσθῆναι· τῶν γὰρ δὴ πλείστων λόγων οὓς ἐν ποιήμασιν
χύδην οὕτως εἰρημένους μεμάθηκα καὶ ἀκήκοα, πάντων μοι
μετριώτατοί γε εἶναι κατεφάνησαν καὶ προσήκοντες τὰ
μάλιστα ἀκούειν νέοις. τῷ δὴ νομοφύλακί τε καὶ παιδευτῇ
παράδειγμα οὐκ ἂν ἔχοιμι, ὡς οἶμαι, τούτου βέλτιον φράζειν,
ταῦτά τε διδάσκειν παρακελεύεσθαι τοῖσι διδασκάλοις
811e τοὺς παῖδας, τά τε τούτων ἐχόμενα καὶ ὅμοια, ἂν ἄρα που
περιτυγχάνῃ ποιητῶν τε ποιήματα διεξιὼν καὶ γεγραμμένα
καταλογάδην καὶ ψιλῶς οὕτως ἄνευ τοῦ γεγράφθαι λεγόμενα,
ἀδελφά που τούτων τῶν λόγων, μὴ μεθιέναι τρόπῳ
μηδενί, γράφεσθαι δέ· καὶ πρῶτον μὲν τοὺς διδασκάλους
αὐτοὺς ἀναγκάζειν μανθάνειν καὶ ἐπαινεῖν, οὓς δ' ἂν μὴ
ἀρέσκῃ τῶν διδασκάλων, μὴ χρῆσθαι τούτοις συνεργοῖς, οὓς
δ' ἂν τῷ ἐπαίνῳ συμψήφους ἔχῃ, τούτοις χρώμενον, τοὺς
812a νέους αὐτοῖς παραδιδόναι διδάσκειν τε καὶ παιδεύειν. οὗτός
μοι μῦθος ἐνταῦθα καὶ οὕτω τελευτάτω, περὶ γραμματιστῶν
τε εἰρημένος ἅμα καὶ γραμμάτων.
Ath.In the fact that I am not wholly at a loss for a pattern. For in looking back now at the discussions which we have been pursuing from dawn up to this present hour—and that, as I fancy, not without some guidance from Heaven—it appeared to me that they were framed exactly like a poem. And it was not surprising, perhaps, that there came over me a feeling of intense delight when I gazed thus on our discourses all marshalled, as it were, in close array; for of all the many discourses which I have listened to or learnt about, whether in poems or in a loose flood of speech like ours, they struck me as being not only the most adequate, but also the most suitable for the ears of the young. Nowhere, I think, could I find a better pattern than this to put before the Law-warden who is educator, that he may charge the teachers to teach the children these discourses of ours, and such as resemble and accord with these; and if it should be that in his search he should light on poems of composers, or prose-writings, or merely verbal and unwritten discourses, akin to these of ours, he must in no wise let them go, but get them written down.

In the first place, he must compel the teachers themselves to learn these discourses, and to praise them, and if any of the teachers fail to approve of them, he must not employ them as colleagues; only those who agree with his praise of the discourses should he employ, and entrust to them the teaching and training of the youth. Here and herewith let me end my homily concerning writing-masters and writings.

ΚΛ.Κατὰ μὲν τὴν ὑπόθεσιν, ξένε, ἔμοιγε οὐ φαινόμεθα
ἐκτὸς πορεύεσθαι τῶν ὑποτεθέντων λόγων· εἰ δὲ τὸ
ὅλον κατορθοῦμεν μή, χαλεπὸν ἴσως διισχυρίζεσθαι.
Clin.Judged by our original intention, Stranger, I certainly do not think that we have diverged from the line of argument we intended; but about the matter as a whole it is hard, no doubt, to be sure whether or not we are right.
ΑΘ.Τότε γάρ, Κλεινία, τοῦτό γ' αὐτὸ ἔσται καταφανέστερον,
ὡς εἰκός, ὅταν, πολλάκις εἰρήκαμεν, ἐπὶ
τέλος ἀφικώμεθα πάσης τῆς διεξόδου περὶ νόμων.
Ath.That, Clinias, (as we have often said) will probably become clearer of itself when we arrive at the end of our whole exposition concerning laws.
812b ΚΛ.Ὀρθῶς.
Clin.Very true.
ΑΘ.Ἆρ' οὖν οὐ μετὰ τὸν γραμματιστὴν κιθαριστὴς
ἡμῖν προσρητέος;
Ath.After the writing-master, must we not address the lyre-master next?
ΚΛ.Τί μήν;
Clin.Certainly.
ΑΘ.Τοῖς κιθαρισταῖς μὲν τοίνυν ἡμᾶς δοκῶ τῶν ἔμπροσθεν
λόγων ἀναμνησθέντας τὸ προσῆκον νεῖμαι τῆς τε
διδασκαλίας ἅμα καὶ πάσης τῆς περὶ τὰ τοιαῦτα παιδεύσεως.
Ath.When assigning to the lyre-masters their proper duties in regard to the teaching and general training in these subjects, we must, as I think, bear in mind our previous declarations.
ΚΛ.Ποίων δὴ πέρι λέγεις;
Clin.Declarations about what?
ΑΘ.Ἔφαμεν, οἶμαι, τοὺς τοῦ Διονύσου τοὺς ἑξηκοντούτας
ᾠδοὺς διαφερόντως εὐαισθήτους δεῖν γεγονέναι περί
812c τε τοὺς ῥυθμοὺς καὶ τὰς τῶν ἁρμονιῶν συστάσεις, ἵνα τὴν
τῶν μελῶν μίμησιν τὴν εὖ καὶ τὴν κακῶς μεμιμημένην, ἐν
τοῖς παθήμασιν ὅταν ψυχὴ γίγνηται, τά τε τῆς ἀγαθῆς
ὁμοιώματα καὶ τὰ τῆς ἐναντίας ἐκλέξασθαι δυνατὸς ὤν τις,
τὰ μὲν ἀποβάλλῃ, τὰ δὲ προφέρων εἰς μέσον ὑμνῇ καὶ
ἐπᾴδῃ ταῖς τῶν νέων ψυχαῖς, προκαλούμενος ἑκάστους εἰς
ἀρετῆς ἕπεσθαι κτῆσιν συνακολουθοῦντας διὰ τῶν μιμήσεων.
Ath.We said, I fancy, that the sixty-year-old singers of hymns to Dionysus ought to be exceptionally keen of perception regarding rhythms and harmonic compositions, in order that when dealing with musical representations of a good kind or a bad, by which the soul is emotionally affected, they may be able to pick out the reproductions of the good kind and of the bad, and having rejected the latter, may produce the other in public, and charm the souls of the children by singing them, and so challenge them all to accompany them in acquiring virtue by means of these representations.
ΚΛ.Ἀληθέστατα λέγεις.
Clin.Very true.
812d ΑΘ.Τούτων τοίνυν δεῖ χάριν τοῖς φθόγγοις τῆς λύρας
προσχρῆσθαι, σαφηνείας ἕνεκα τῶν χορδῶν, τόν τε κιθαριστὴν
καὶ τὸν παιδευόμενον, ἀποδιδόντας πρόσχορδα τὰ
φθέγματα τοῖς φθέγμασι· τὴν δ' ἑτεροφωνίαν καὶ ποικιλίαν
τῆς λύρας, ἄλλα μὲν μέλη τῶν χορδῶν ἱεισῶν, ἄλλα δὲ τοῦ
τὴν μελῳδίαν συνθέντος ποιητοῦ, καὶ δὴ καὶ πυκνότητα
μανότητι καὶ τάχος βραδυτῆτι καὶ ὀξύτητα βαρύτητι σύμφωνον
812e καὶ ἀντίφωνον παρεχομένους, καὶ τῶν ῥυθμῶν ὡσαύτως
παντοδαπὰ ποικίλματα προσαρμόττοντας τοῖσι φθόγγοις
τῆς λύρας, πάντα οὖν τὰ τοιαῦτα μὴ προσφέρειν τοῖς μέλλουσιν
ἐν τρισὶν ἔτεσιν τὸ τῆς μουσικῆς χρήσιμον ἐκλήψεσθαι
διὰ τάχους. τὰ γὰρ ἐναντία ἄλληλα ταράττοντα
δυσμάθειαν παρέχει, δεῖ δὲ ὅτι μάλιστα εὐμαθεῖς εἶναι τοὺς
νέους· τὰ γὰρ ἀναγκαῖα οὐ σμικρὰ οὐδ' ὀλίγα αὐτοῖς ἐστι
προστεταγμένα μαθήματα, δείξει δὲ αὐτὰ προϊὼν λόγος
ἅμα τῷ χρόνῳ. ἀλλὰ ταῦτα μὲν οὕτω περὶ τῆς μουσικῆς
ἡμῖν παιδευτὴς ἐπιμελείσθω· τὰ δὲ μελῶν αὐτῶν αὖ καὶ
ῥημάτων, οἷα τοὺς χοροδιδασκάλους καὶ δεῖ διδάσκειν, καὶ
813a ταῦτα ἡμῖν ἐν τοῖς πρόσθεν διείρηται πάντα, δὴ καθιερωθέντα
ἔφαμεν δεῖν, ταῖς ἑορταῖς ἕκαστα ἁρμόττοντα, ἡδονὴν
εὐτυχῆ ταῖς πόλεσιν παραδιδόντα ὠφελεῖν.
Ath.So, to attain this object, both the lyre-master and his pupil must use the notes of the lyre, because of the distinctness of its strings, assigning to the notes of the song notes in tune with them; but as to divergence of sound and variety in the notes of the harp, when the strings sound the one tune and the composer of the melody another, or when there results a combination of low and high notes, of slow and quick time, of sharp and grave, and all sorts of rhythmical variations are adapted to the notes of the lyre,—no such complications should be employed in dealing with pupils who have to absorb quickly, within three years, the useful elements of music. For the jarring of opposites with one another impedes easy learning; and the young should above all things learn easily, since the necessary lessons imposed upon them are neither few nor small,—which lessons our discourse will indicate in time as it proceeds.

So let our educator regulate these matters in the manner stated. As regards the character of the actual tunes and words which the choir-masters ought to teach, all this we have already explained at length. We stated that in each case they should be adapted to a suitable festival and dedicated, and thus prove a benefit to the States, by furnishing them with felicitous enjoyment.

ΚΛ.Ἀληθῆ καὶ ταῦτα διείρηκας.
Clin.This, too, you have explained truly.
ΑΘ.Ἀληθέστατα τοίνυν. καὶ ταῦθ' ἡμῖν παραλαβὼν
περὶ τὴν μοῦσαν ἄρχων αἱρεθεὶς ἐπιμελείσθω μετὰ τύχης
εὐμενοῦς, ἡμεῖς δὲ ὀρχήσεώς τε πέρι καὶ ὅλης τῆς περὶ τὸ
σῶμα γυμναστικῆς πρὸς τοῖς ἔμπροσθεν εἰρημένοις ἀποδῶμεν·
813b καθάπερ μουσικῆς τὸ διδασκαλικὸν ὑπόλοιπον ὂν
ἀπέδομεν, ὡσαύτως ποιῶμεν καὶ γυμναστικῆς. τοὺς γὰρ
παῖδάς τε καὶ τὰς παῖδας ὀρχεῖσθαι δὴ δεῖ καὶ γυμνάζεσθαι
μανθάνειν· γάρ;
Ath.Yes, most truly. These matters also let the man who is appointed our Director of Music take over and supervise, with the help of kindly fortune; and let us supplement our former statements concerning dancing and bodily gymnastics in general. Just as, in the case of music, we have supplied the regulations about tuition that were missing, so also let us now do in the case of gymnastics. Shall we not say that both girls and boys must learn both dancing and gymnastics?
ΚΛ.Ναί.
Clin.Yes.
ΑΘ.Τοῖς μὲν τοίνυν παισὶν ὀρχησταί, ταῖς δὲ ὀρχηστρίδες
ἂν εἶεν πρὸς τὸ διαπονεῖν οὐκ ἀνεπιτηδειότερον.
Ath.Then for their practices it would be most proper that boys should have dancing-masters, and girls mistresses.
ΚΛ.Ἔστω δὴ ταύτῃ.
Clin.I grant it.
ΑΘ.Πάλιν δὴ τὸν τὰ πλεῖστα ἕξοντα πράγματα καλῶμεν,
813c τὸν τῶν παίδων ἐπιμελητήν, ὃς τῶν τε περὶ μουσικὴν
τῶν τε περὶ γυμναστικὴν ἐπιμελούμενος οὐ πολλὴν ἕξει
σχολήν.
Ath.Let us once more summon the man who will have most of these duties to perform, the Director of the Children,—who, in supervising both music and gymnastic, will have but little time to spare.
ΚΛ.Πῶς οὖν δυνατὸς ἔσται πρεσβύτερος ὢν τοσούτων
ἐπιμελεῖσθαι;
Clin.How will he be able, at his age, to supervise so many affairs?
ΑΘ.Ῥᾳδίως, φίλε. νόμος γὰρ αὐτῷ δέδωκεν καὶ
δώσει προσλαμβάνειν εἰς ταύτην τὴν ἐπιμέλειαν τῶν πολιτῶν
ἀνδρῶν καὶ γυναικῶν οὓς ἂν ἐθέλῃ, γνώσεται δὲ οὓς
δεῖ, καὶ βουλήσεται μὴ πλημμελεῖν εἰς ταῦτα, αἰδούμενος
813d ἐμφρόνως καὶ γιγνώσκων τῆς ἀρχῆς τὸ μέγεθος, λογισμῷ
τε συνὼν ὡς εὖ μὲν τραφέντων καὶ τρεφομένων τῶν νέων
πάντα ἡμῖν κατ' ὀρθὸν πλεῖ, μὴ δέοὔτ' εἰπεῖν ἄξιον οὔθ'
ἡμεῖς λέγομεν ἐπὶ καινῇ πόλει τοὺς σφόδρα φιλομαντευτὰς
σεβόμενοι. πολλὰ μὲν οὖν ἡμῖν καὶ περὶ τούτων εἴρηται,
τῶν περὶ τὰς ὀρχήσεις καὶ περὶ πᾶσαν τὴν τῶν γυμνασίων
κίνησιν· γυμνάσια γὰρ τίθεμεν καὶ τὰ περὶ τὸν πόλεμον
ἅπαντα τοῖς σώμασι διαπονήματα τοξικῆς τε καὶ πάσης
813e ῥίψεως καὶ πελταστικῆς καὶ πάσης ὁπλομαχίας καὶ διεξόδων
τακτικῶν καὶ ἁπάσης πορείας στρατοπέδων καὶ στρατοπεδεύσεων
καὶ ὅσα εἰς ἱππικὴν μαθήματα συντείνει. πάντων
γὰρ τούτων διδασκάλους τε εἶναι δεῖ κοινούς, ἀρνυμένους
μισθὸν παρὰ τῆς πόλεως, καὶ τούτων μαθητὰς τοὺς ἐν τῇ
πόλει παῖδάς τε καὶ ἄνδρας, καὶ κόρας καὶ γυναῖκας πάντων
τούτων ἐπιστήμονας, κόρας μὲν οὔσας ἔτι πᾶσαν τὴν ἐν
ὅπλοις ὄρχησιν καὶ μάχην μεμελετηκυίας, γυναῖκας δέ, διεξόδων
814a καὶ τάξεων καὶ θέσεως καὶ ἀναιρέσεως ὅπλων ἡμμένας,
εἰ μηδενὸς ἕνεκα, ἀλλ' εἴ ποτε δεήσειε πανδημεὶ πάσῃ τῇ
δυνάμει καταλείποντας τὴν πόλιν ἔξω στρατεύεσθαι, τοὺς
φυλάξοντας παῖδάς τε καὶ τὴν ἄλλην πόλιν ἱκανοὺς εἶναι
τό γε τοσοῦτον, καὶ τοὐναντίον, ὧν οὐδὲν ἀπώμοτον,
ἔξωθεν πολεμίους εἰσπεσόντας ῥώμῃ τινὶ μεγάλῃ καὶ βίᾳ,
βαρβάρους εἴτε Ἕλληνας, ἀνάγκην παρασχεῖν περὶ αὐτῆς
τῆς πόλεως τὴν διαμάχην γίγνεσθαι, πολλή που κακία
814b πολιτείας οὕτως αἰσχρῶς τὰς γυναῖκας εἶναι τεθραμμένας,
ὡς μηδ' ὥσπερ ὄρνιθας περὶ τέκνων μαχομένας πρὸς ὁτιοῦν
τῶν ἰσχυροτάτων θηρίων ἐθέλειν ἀποθνῄσκειν τε καὶ πάντας
κινδύνους κινδυνεύειν, ἀλλ' εὐθὺς πρὸς ἱερὰ φερομένας,
πάντας βωμούς τε καὶ ναοὺς ἐμπιμπλάναι, καὶ δόξαν τοῦ τῶν
ἀνθρώπων γένους καταχεῖν ὡς πάντων δειλότατον φύσει
θηρίων ἐστίν.
Ath.Quite easily. For the law has granted him, and will continue to grant him, such men or women as he wishes to take to assist him in this task of supervision: he will know himself the right persons to choose, and he will be anxious to make no blunder in these matters, recognizing the greatness of his office and wisely holding it in high respect, and holding also the rational conviction that, when the young have been, and are being, well brought up, all goes swimmingly, but otherwise—the consequences are such as it is wrong to speak of, nor will we mention them, in dealing with a new State, out of consideration for the over-superstitious. Concerning these matters also, which relate to dancing and gymnastic movements, we have already spoken at length. We are establishing gymnasia and all physical exercises connected with military training,—the use of the bow and all kinds of missiles, light skirmishing and heavy-armed fighting of every description, tactical evolutions, company-marching, camp-formations, and all the details of cavalry training.

In all these subjects there should be public instructors, paid by the State; and their pupils should be not only the boys and men in the State, but also the girls and women who understand all these matters—being practiced in all military drill and fighting while still girls and, when grown to womanhood, taking part in evolutions and rank-forming and the piling and shouldering of arms,— and that, if for no other reason, at least for this reason, that, if ever the guards of the children and of the rest of the city should be obliged to leave the city and march out in full force, these women should be able at least to take their place; while if, on the other hand—and this is quite a possible contingency—an invading army of foreigners, fierce and strong, should force a battle round the city itself, then it would be a sore disgrace to the State if its women were so ill brought up as not even to be willing to do as do the mother-birds, which fight the strongest beasts in defence of their broods, but, instead of facing all risks, even death itself, to run straight to the temples and crowd all the shrines and holy places, and drown mankind in the disgrace of being the most craven of living creatures.

ΚΛ.Οὐ μὰ τὸν Δία, ξένε, οὐδαμῶς εὔσχημον γίγνοιτ'
814c ἄν, τοῦ κακοῦ χωρίς, τοῦτο ἐν πόλει ὅπου γίγνοιτο.
Clin.By Heaven, Stranger, if ever this took place in a city, it would be a most unseemly thing, apart from the mischief of it.
ΑΘ.Οὐκοῦν τιθῶμεν τὸν νόμον τοῦτον, μέχρι γε τοσούτου
μὴ ἀμελεῖσθαι τὰ περὶ τὸν πόλεμον γυναιξὶν δεῖν,
ἐπιμελεῖσθαι δὲ πάντας τοὺς πολίτας καὶ τὰς πολίτιδας;
Ath.Shall we, then, lay down this law,—that up to the point stated women must not neglect military training, but all citizens, men and women alike, must pay attention to it?
ΚΛ.Ἐγὼ γοῦν συγχωρῶ.
Clin.I, for one, agree.
ΑΘ.Πάλης τοίνυν τὰ μὲν εἴπομεν, δ' ἐστὶ μέγιστον,
ὡς ἐγὼ φαίην ἄν, οὐκ εἰρήκαμεν, οὐδ' ἔστι ῥᾴδιον ἄνευ τοῦ
τῷ σώματι δεικνύντα ἅμα καὶ τῷ λόγῳ φράζειν. τοῦτ' οὖν
814d τότε κρινοῦμεν, ὅταν ἔργῳ λόγος ἀκολουθήσας μηνύσῃ τι
σαφὲς τῶν τε ἄλλων ὧν εἴρηκεν πέρι, καὶ ὅτι τῇ πολεμικῇ
μάχῃ πασῶν κινήσεων ὄντως ἐστὶ συγγενὴς πολὺ μάλισθ'
ἡμῖν τοιαύτη πάλη, καὶ δὴ καὶ ὅτι δεῖ ταύτην ἐκείνης
χάριν ἐπιτηδεύειν, ἀλλ' οὐκ ἐκείνην ταύτης ἕνεκα μανθάνειν.
Ath.As regards wrestling, some points have been explained; but we have not explained what is, in my opinion, the most important point, nor is it easy to express it in words without the help of a practical illustration. This point, then, we shall decide about when word accompanied by deed can clearly demonstrate this fact, among the others mentioned,—that wrestling of this kind is of all motions by far the most nearly allied to military fighting; and also that it is not the latter that should be learned for the sake of the former, but, on the contrary, it is the former that should be practiced for the sake of the latter.
ΚΛ.Καλῶς τοῦτό γε λέγεις.
Clin.There, at any rate, you are right.
ΑΘ.Νῦν δὴ τῆς μὲν περὶ παλαίστραν δυνάμεως τὸ μέχρι
δεῦρ' ἡμῖν εἰρήσθω· περὶ δὲ τῆς ἄλλης κινήσεως παντὸς
814e τοῦ σώματος, ἧς τὸ πλεῖστον μέρος ὄρχησίν τινά τις προςαγορεύων
ὀρθῶς ἂν φθέγγοιτο, δύο μὲν αὐτῆς εἴδη χρὴ
νομίζειν εἶναι, τὴν μὲν τῶν καλλιόνων σωμάτων ἐπὶ τὸ
σεμνὸν μιμουμένην, τὴν δὲ τῶν αἰσχιόνων ἐπὶ τὸ φαῦλον,
καὶ πάλιν τοῦ φαύλου τε δύο καὶ τοῦ σπουδαίου δύο ἕτερα.
τοῦ δὴ σπουδαίου τὴν μὲν κατὰ πόλεμον καὶ ἐν βιαίοις ἐμπλακέντων
πόνοις σωμάτων μὲν καλῶν, ψυχῆς δ' ἀνδρικῆς,
τὴν δ' ἐν εὐπραγίαις τε οὔσης ψυχῆς σώφρονος ἐν ἡδοναῖς
τε ἐμμέτροις· εἰρηνικὴν ἄν τις λέγων κατὰ φύσιν τὴν τοιαύτην
815a ὄρχησιν λέγοι. τὴν πολεμικὴν δὴ τούτων, ἄλλην οὖσαν
τῆς εἰρηνικῆς, πυρρίχην ἄν τις ὀρθῶς προσαγορεύοι, τάς τε
εὐλαβείας πασῶν πληγῶν καὶ βολῶν ἐκνεύσεσι καὶ ὑπείξει
πάσῃ καὶ ἐκπηδήσεσιν ἐν ὕψει καὶ σὺν ταπεινώσει μιμουμένην,
καὶ τὰς ταύταις ἐναντίας, τὰς ἐπὶ τὰ δραστικὰ φερομένας
αὖ σχήματα, ἔν τε ταῖς τῶν τόξων βολαῖς καὶ ἀκοντίων
καὶ πασῶν πληγῶν μιμήματα ἐπιχειρούσας μιμεῖσθαι· τό
τε ὀρθὸν ἐν τούτοις καὶ τὸ εὔτονον, τῶν ἀγαθῶν σωμάτων
815b καὶ ψυχῶν ὁπόταν γίγνηται μίμημα, εὐθυφερὲς ὡς τὸ πολὺ
τῶν τοῦ σώματος μελῶν γιγνόμενον, ὀρθὸν μὲν τὸ τοιοῦτον,
τὸ δὲ τούτοις τοὐναντίον οὐκ ὀρθὸν ἀποδεχόμενον. τὴν δὲ
εἰρηνικὴν ὄρχησιν τῇδ' αὖ θεωρητέον ἑκάστων, εἴτε ὀρθῶς
εἴτε μὴ κατὰ φύσιν τις τῆς καλῆς ὀρχήσεως ἀντιλαμβανόμενος
ἐν χορείαις πρεπόντως εὐνόμων ἀνδρῶν διατελεῖ.
τὴν τοίνυν ἀμφισβητουμένην ὄρχησιν δεῖ πρῶτον χωρὶς τῆς
815c ἀναμφισβητήτου διατεμεῖν. τίς οὖν αὕτη, καὶ πῇ δεῖ χωρὶς
τέμνειν ἑκατέραν; ὅση μὲν βακχεία τ' ἐστὶν καὶ τῶν ταύταις
ἑπομένων, ἃς Νύμφας τε καὶ Πᾶνας καὶ Σειληνοὺς καὶ Σατύρους
ἐπονομάζοντες, ὥς φασιν, μιμοῦνται κατῳνωμένους,
περὶ καθαρμούς τε καὶ τελετάς τινας ἀποτελούντων, σύμπαν
τοῦτο τῆς ὀρχήσεως τὸ γένος οὔθ' ὡς εἰρηνικὸν οὔθ' ὡς
πολεμικὸν οὔθ' ὅτι ποτὲ βούλεται ῥᾴδιον ἀφορίσασθαι· διορίσασθαι
μήν μοι ταύτῃ δοκεῖ σχεδὸν ὀρθότατον αὐτὸ εἶναι,
815d χωρὶς μὲν πολεμικοῦ, χωρὶς δὲ εἰρηνικοῦ θέντας, εἰπεῖν ὡς
οὐκ ἔστι πολιτικὸν τοῦτο τῆς ὀρχήσεως τὸ γένος, ἐνταῦθα
δὲ κείμενον ἐάσαντας κεῖσθαι, νῦν ἐπὶ τὸ πολεμικὸν ἅμα καὶ
εἰρηνικὸν ὡς ἀναμφισβητήτως ἡμέτερον ὂν ἐπανιέναι. τὸ
δὲ τῆς ἀπολέμου μούσης, ἐν ὀρχήσεσιν δὲ τούς τε θεοὺς
καὶ τοὺς τῶν θεῶν παῖδας τιμώντων, ἓν μὲν σύμπαν γίγνοιτ'
ἂν γένος ἐν δόξῃ τοῦ πράττειν εὖ γιγνόμενον, τοῦτο δὲ διχῇ
815e διαιροῖμεν ἄν, τὸ μὲν ἐκ πόνων τινῶν αὐτοῦ καὶ κινδύνων
διαπεφευγότων εἰς ἀγαθά, μείζους ἡδονὰς ἔχον, τὸ δὲ τῶν
ἔμπροσθεν ἀγαθῶν σωτηρίας οὔσης καὶ ἐπαύξης, πρᾳοτέρας
τὰς ἡδονὰς κεκτημένον ἐκείνων. ἐν δὲ δὴ τοῖς τοιούτοις
που πᾶς ἄνθρωπος τὰς κινήσεις τοῦ σώματος μειζόνων μὲν
τῶν ἡδονῶν οὐσῶν μείζους, ἐλαττόνων δὲ ἐλάττους κινεῖται,
καὶ κοσμιώτερος μὲν ὢν πρός τε ἀνδρείαν μᾶλλον γεγυμνασμένος
816a ἐλάττους αὖ, δειλὸς δὲ καὶ ἀγύμναστος γεγονὼς
πρὸς τὸ σωφρονεῖν μείζους καὶ σφοδροτέρας παρέχεται
μεταβολὰς τῆς κινήσεως· ὅλως δὲ φθεγγόμενος, εἴτ' ἐν
ᾠδαῖς εἴτ' ἐν λόγοις, ἡσυχίαν οὐ πάνυ δυνατὸς τῷ σώματι
παρέχεσθαι πᾶς. διὸ μίμησις τῶν λεγομένων σχήμασι γενομένη
τὴν ὀρχηστικὴν ἐξηργάσατο τέχνην σύμπασαν. μὲν
οὖν ἐμμελῶς ἡμῶν, δὲ πλημμελῶς ἐν τούτοις πᾶσι κινεῖται.
816b πολλὰ μὲν δὴ τοίνυν ἄλλα ἡμῖν τῶν παλαιῶν ὀνομάτων
ὡς εὖ καὶ κατὰ φύσιν κείμενα δεῖ διανοούμενον ἐπαινεῖν,
τούτων δὲ ἓν καὶ τὸ περὶ τὰς ὀρχήσεις τὰς τῶν εὖ πραττόντων,
ὄντων δὲ μετρίων αὐτῶν πρὸς τὰς ἡδονάς, ὡς ὀρθῶς
ἅμα καὶ μουσικῶς ὠνόμασεν ὅστις ποτ' ἦν, καὶ κατὰ λόγον
αὐταῖς θέμενος ὄνομα συμπάσαις ἐμμελείας ἐπωνόμασε, καὶ
δύο δὴ τῶν ὀρχήσεων τῶν καλῶν εἴδη κατεστήσατο, τὸ μὲν
πολεμικὸν πυρρίχην, τὸ δὲ εἰρηνικὸν ἐμμέλειαν, ἑκατέρῳ τὸ
816c πρέπον τε καὶ ἁρμόττον ἐπιθεὶς ὄνομα. δὴ δεῖ τὸν μὲν
νομοθέτην ἐξηγεῖσθαι τύποις, τὸν δὲ νομοφύλακα ζητεῖν τε,
καὶ ἀνερευνησάμενον, μετὰ τῆς ἄλλης μουσικῆς τὴν ὄρχησιν
συνθέντα καὶ νείμαντα ἐπὶ πάσας ἑορτὰς τῶν θυσιῶν ἑκάστῃ
τὸ πρόσφορον, οὕτω καθιερώσαντα αὐτὰ πάντα ἐν τάξει,
τοῦ λοιποῦ μὴ κινεῖν μηδὲν μήτε ὀρχήσεως ἐχόμενον μήτε
ᾠδῆς, ἐν ταῖς δ' αὐταῖς ἡδοναῖς ὡσαύτως τὴν αὐτὴν πόλιν
816d καὶ πολίτας διάγοντας, ὁμοίους εἰς δύναμιν ὄντας, ζῆν εὖ
τε καὶ εὐδαιμόνως.
Τὰ μὲν οὖν τῶν καλῶν σωμάτων καὶ γενναίων ψυχῶν
εἰς τὰς χορείας, οἵας εἴρηται δεῖν αὐτὰς εἶναι, διαπεπέρανται,
τὰ δὲ τῶν αἰσχρῶν σωμάτων καὶ διανοημάτων καὶ τῶν ἐπὶ
τὰ τοῦ γέλωτος κωμῳδήματα τετραμμένων, κατὰ λέξιν τε
καὶ ᾠδὴν καὶ κατὰ ὄρχησιν καὶ κατὰ τὰ τούτων πάντων
μιμήματα κεκωμῳδημένα, ἀνάγκη μὲν θεάσασθαι καὶ γνωρίζειν·
ἄνευ γὰρ γελοίων τὰ σπουδαῖα καὶ πάντων τῶν
816e ἐναντίων τὰ ἐναντία μαθεῖν μὲν οὐ δυνατόν, εἰ μέλλει τις
φρόνιμος ἔσεσθαι, ποιεῖν δὲ οὐκ αὖ δυνατὸν ἀμφότερα, εἴ
τις αὖ μέλλει καὶ σμικρὸν ἀρετῆς μεθέξειν, ἀλλὰ αὐτῶν
ἕνεκα τούτων καὶ μανθάνειν αὐτὰ δεῖ, τοῦ μή ποτε δι'
ἄγνοιαν δρᾶν λέγειν ὅσα γελοῖα, μηδὲν δέον, δούλοις δὲ τὰ
τοιαῦτα καὶ ξένοις ἐμμίσθοις προστάττειν μιμεῖσθαι, σπουδὴν
δὲ περὶ αὐτὰ εἶναι μηδέποτε μηδ' ἡντινοῦν, μηδέ τινα μανθάνοντα
αὐτὰ γίγνεσθαι φανερὸν τῶν ἐλευθέρων, μήτε γυναῖκα
μήτε ἄνδρα, καινὸν δὲ ἀεί τι περὶ αὐτὰ φαίνεσθαι τῶν μιμημάτων.
ὅσα μὲν οὖν περὶ γέλωτά ἐστιν παίγνια, δὴ
817a κωμῳδίαν πάντες λέγομεν, οὕτως τῷ νόμῳ καὶ λόγῳ κείσθω·
τῶν δὲ σπουδαίων, ὥς φασι, τῶν περὶ τραγῳδίαν ἡμῖν
ποιητῶν, ἐάν ποτέ τινες αὐτῶν ἡμᾶς ἐλθόντες ἐπανερωτήσωσιν
οὑτωσί πως· " ξένοι, πότερον φοιτῶμεν ὑμῖν εἰς
τὴν πόλιν τε καὶ χώραν μή, καὶ τὴν ποίησιν φέρωμέν τε
καὶ ἄγωμεν, πῶς ὑμῖν δέδοκται περὶ τὰ τοιαῦτα δρᾶν;" —
τί οὖν ἂν πρὸς ταῦτα ὀρθῶς ἀποκριναίμεθα τοῖς θείοις ἀνδράσιν;
817b ἐμοὶ μὲν γὰρ δοκεῖ τάδε· " ἄριστοι," φάναι, "τῶν
ξένων, ἡμεῖς ἐσμὲν τραγῳδίας αὐτοὶ ποιηταὶ κατὰ δύναμιν
ὅτι καλλίστης ἅμα καὶ ἀρίστης· πᾶσα οὖν ἡμῖν πολιτεία
συνέστηκε μίμησις τοῦ καλλίστου καὶ ἀρίστου βίου, δή
φαμεν ἡμεῖς γε ὄντως εἶναι τραγῳδίαν τὴν ἀληθεστάτην.
ποιηταὶ μὲν οὖν ὑμεῖς, ποιηταὶ δὲ καὶ ἡμεῖς ἐσμὲν τῶν
αὐτῶν, ὑμῖν ἀντίτεχνοί τε καὶ ἀνταγωνισταὶ τοῦ καλλίστου
δράματος, δὴ νόμος ἀληθὴς μόνος ἀποτελεῖν πέφυκεν, ὡς
817c παρ' ἡμῶν ἐστιν ἐλπίς· μὴ δὴ δόξητε ἡμᾶς ῥᾳδίως γε
οὕτως ὑμᾶς ποτε παρ' ἡμῖν ἐάσειν σκηνάς τε πήξαντας κατ'
ἀγορὰν καὶ καλλιφώνους ὑποκριτὰς εἰσαγαγομένους, μεῖζον
φθεγγομένους ἡμῶν, ἐπιτρέψειν ὑμῖν δημηγορεῖν πρὸς παῖδάς
τε καὶ γυναῖκας καὶ τὸν πάντα ὄχλον, τῶν αὐτῶν λέγοντας
ἐπιτηδευμάτων πέρι μὴ τὰ αὐτὰ ἅπερ ἡμεῖς, ἀλλ' ὡς τὸ
πολὺ καὶ ἐναντία τὰ πλεῖστα. σχεδὸν γάρ τοι κἂν μαινοίμεθα
817d τελέως ἡμεῖς τε καὶ ἅπασα πόλις, ἡτισοῦν ὑμῖν
ἐπιτρέποι δρᾶν τὰ νῦν λεγόμενα, πρὶν κρῖναι τὰς ἀρχὰς εἴτε
ῥητὰ καὶ ἐπιτήδεια πεποιήκατε λέγειν εἰς τὸ μέσον εἴτε μή.
νῦν οὖν, παῖδες μαλακῶν Μουσῶν ἔκγονοι, ἐπιδείξαντες
τοῖς ἄρχουσι πρῶτον τὰς ὑμετέρας παρὰ τὰς ἡμετέρας ᾠδάς,
ἂν μὲν τὰ αὐτά γε καὶ βελτίω τὰ παρ' ὑμῶν φαίνηται
λεγόμενα, δώσομεν ὑμῖν χορόν, εἰ δὲ μή, φίλοι, οὐκ ἄν
ποτε δυναίμεθα."
817e Ταῦτ' οὖν ἔστω περὶ πᾶσαν χορείαν καὶ μάθησιν τούτων
πέρι συντεταγμένα νόμοις ἔθη, χωρὶς μὲν τὰ τῶν δούλων,
χωρὶς δὲ τὰ τῶν δεσποτῶν, εἰ συνδοκεῖ.
Ath.For the present let this suffice as an account of the functions of the wrestling-school. Motion of the whole body, other than wrestling, has for its main division what may be rightly termed dancing; and we ought to consider it as consisting of two kinds,—the one representing the solemn movement of beautiful bodies, the other the ignoble movement of ugly bodies; and of these again there are two subdivisions.

Of the noble kind there is, on the one hand, the motion of fighting, and that of fair bodies and brave souls engaged in violent effort; and, on the other hand, there is the motion of a temperate soul living in a state of prosperity and moderate pleasures; and this latter kind of dancing one will call, in accordance with its nature, pacific. The warlike division, being distinct from the pacific, one may rightly term pyrrhiche; it represents modes of eluding all kinds of blows and shots by swervings and duckings and side-leaps upward or crouching; and also the opposite kinds of motion, which lead to active postures of offence, when it strives to represent the movements involved in shooting with bows or darts, and blows of every description. In all these cases the action and the tension of the sinews are correct when there is a representation of fair bodies and souls in which most of the limbs of the body are extended straight: this kind of representation is right, but the opposite kind we pronounce to be wrong. In pacific dancing, the point we must consider in every case is whether the performer in his dances keeps always rightly, or improperly, to the noble kind of dancing, in the way that befits law-abiding men. So, in the first place, we must draw a line between questionable dancing and dancing that is above question. All the dancing that is of a Bacchic kind and cultivated by those who indulge in drunken imitations of Pans, Sileni and Satyrs (as they call them), when performing certain rites of expiation and initiation,—all this class of dancing cannot easily be defined either as pacific or as warlike, or as of any one distinct kind. The most correct way of defining it seems to me to be this— to separate it off both from pacific and from warlike dancing, and to pronounce that this kind of dancing is unfitted for our citizens: and having thus disposed of it and dismissed it, we will now return to the warlike and pacific kinds which do beyond question belong to us. That of the unwarlike Muse, in which men pay honor to the gods and the children of the gods by dances, will consist, broadly speaking, of all dancing performed under a sense of prosperity: of this we may make two subdivisions— the one being of a more joyful description, and proper to men who have escaped out of toils and perils into a state of bliss,—and the other connected rather with the preservation and increase of pre-existent blessings, and exhibiting, accordingly, joyousness of a less ardent kind.

Under these conditions every man moves his body more violently when his joys are greater, less violently when they are smaller; also, he moves it less violently when he is more sedate and better trained in courage, but when he is cowardly and untrained in temperance, he indulges in greater and more violent changes of motion; and in general, no one who is using his voice, whether in song or in speech, is able to keep his body wholly at rest. Hence, when the representation of things spoken by means of gestures arose, it produced the whole art of dancing. In all these instances, one man of us moves in tune with his theme, another out of tune. Many of the names bestowed in ancient times are deserving of notice and of praise for their excellence and descriptiveness: one such is the name given to the dances of men who are in a prosperous state and indulge in pleasures of a moderate kind: how true and how musical was the name so rationally bestowed on those dances by the man (whoever he was) who first called them all Emmeleiai, and established two species of fair dances—the warlike, termed pyrrhiche, and the pacific, termed emmeleia—bestowing on each its appropriate and harmonious name. These dances the lawgiver should describe in outline, and the Law-warden should search them out and, having investigated them, he should combine the dancing with the rest of the music, and assign what is proper of it to each of the sacrificial feasts, distributing it over all the feasts; and when he has thus consecrated all these things in due order, he should thenceforth make no change in all that appertains to either dancing or singing, but this one and the same city and body of citizens should continue in one and the same way, enjoying the same pleasures and living alike in all ways possible, and so pass their lives happily and well. What concerns the actions of fair and noble souls in the matter of that kind of choristry which we have approved as right has now been fully discussed. The actions of ugly bodies and ugly ideas and of the men engaged in ludicrous comic-acting, in regard to both speech and dance, and the representations given by all these comedians—all this subject we must necessarily consider and estimate. For it is impossible to learn the serious without the comic, or any one of a pair of contraries without the other, if one is to he a wise man; but to put both into practice is equally impossible, if one is to share in even a small measure of virtue; in fact, it is precisely for this reason that one should learn them,—in order to avoid ever doing or saying anything ludicrous, through ignorance, when one ought not; we will impose such mimicry on slaves and foreign hirelings, and no serious attention shall ever be paid to it, nor shall any free man or free woman be seen learning it, and there must always be some novel feature in their mimic shows.

Let such, then, be the regulations for all those laughable amusements which we all call comedy, as laid down both by law and by argument. Now as to what are called our serious poets, the tragedians,—suppose that some of them were to approach us and put some such question as this,—O Strangers, are we, or are we not, to pay visits to your city and country, and traffic in poetry? Or what have you decided to do about this? What would be the right answer to make to these inspired persons regarding the matter? In my judgment, this should be the answer,—Most excellent of Strangers, we ourselves, to the best of our ability, are the authors of a tragedy at once superlatively fair and good; at least, all our polity is framed as a representation of the fairest and best life, which is in reality, as we assert, the truest tragedy. Thus we are composers of the same things as yourselves, rivals of yours as artists and actors of the fairest drama, which, as our hope is, true law, and it alone, is by nature competent to complete. Do not imagine, then, that we will ever thus lightly allow you to set up your stage beside us in the marketplace, and give permission to those imported actors of yours, with their dulcet tones and their voices louder than ours, to harangue women and children and the whole populace, and to say not the same things as we say about the same institutions, but, on the contrary, things that are, for the most part, just the opposite. In truth, both we ourselves and the whole State would be absolutely mad, were it to allow you to do as I have said, before the magistrates had decided whether or not your compositions are deserving of utterance and suited for publication. So now, ye children and offspring of Muses mild, do ye first display your chants side by side with ours before the rulers; and if your utterances seem to be the same as ours or better, then we will grant you a chorus, but if not, my friends, we can never do so. Let such, then, be the customs ordained to go with the laws regarding all choristry and the learning thereof—keeping distinct those for slaves and those for masters,—if you agree.

ΚΛ.Πῶς δ' οὐ συνδοκεῖ νῦν γε οὕτως;
Clin.Of course we now agree to it.
ΑΘ.Ἔτι δὴ τοίνυν τοῖς ἐλευθέροις ἔστιν τρία μαθήματα,
λογισμοὶ μὲν καὶ τὰ περὶ ἀριθμοὺς ἓν μάθημα, μετρητικὴ
δὲ μήκους καὶ ἐπιπέδου καὶ βάθους ὡς ἓν αὖ δεύτερον,
τρίτον δὲ τῆς τῶν ἄστρων περιόδου πρὸς ἄλληλα ὡς πέφυκεν
818a πορεύεσθαι. ταῦτα δὲ σύμπαντα οὐχ ὡς ἀκριβείας
ἐχόμενα δεῖ διαπονεῖν τοὺς πολλοὺς ἀλλά τινας ὀλίγους
οὓς δέ, προϊόντες ἐπὶ τῷ τέλει φράσομεν· οὕτω γὰρ πρέπον
ἂν εἴητῷ πλήθει δέ, ὅσα αὐτῶν ἀναγκαῖα καί πως ὀρθότατα
λέγεται μὴ ἐπίστασθαι μὲν τοῖς πολλοῖς αἰσχρόν, δι'
ἀκριβείας δὲ ζητεῖν πάντα οὔτε ῥᾴδιον οὔτε τὸ παράπαν
δυνατόν. τὸ δὲ ἀναγκαῖον αὐτῶν οὐχ οἷόν τε ἀποβάλλειν,
818b ἀλλ' ἔοικεν τὸν θεὸν πρῶτον παροιμιασάμενος εἰς ταῦτα
ἀποβλέψας εἰπεῖν ὡς οὐδὲ θεὸς ἀνάγκῃ μή ποτε φανῇ μαχόμενος,
ὅσαι θεῖαί γε, οἶμαι, τῶν γε ἀναγκῶν εἰσίν· ἐπεὶ
τῶν γε ἀνθρωπίνων, εἰς ἃς οἱ πολλοὶ βλέποντες λέγουσι
τὸ τοιοῦτον, οὗτος πάντων τῶν λόγων εὐηθέστατός ἐστιν
μακρῷ.
Ath.There still remain, for the freeborn, three branches of learning: of these the first is reckoning and arithmetic; the second is the art of measuring length and surface and solid; the third deals with the course of the stars, and how they naturally travel in relation to one another. All these sciences should not be studied with minute accuracy by the majority of pupils, but only by a select few—and who these are we shall say when we have come near the end,—since that will be the proper place: but for the bulk of the pupils, while it would be shameful for most of them not to understand all those parts of them that are most truly termed necessary, yet it is not easy nor even at all possible for every student to go into them minutely. The necessary part of them it is impossible to reject, and probably this is what was in the mind of the original author of the proverb, Not even God will ever be seen fighting against Necessity,—meaning by this, I suppose, all kinds of necessity that are divine, since in relation to human necessities (to which most people apply the saying when they quote it) it is of all sayings far and away the most fatuous.
ΚΛ.Τίνες οὖν, ξένε, αἱ μὴ τοιαῦται ἀνάγκαι τῶν
μαθημάτων, θεῖαι δέ;
Clin.What necessities then, Stranger, belong to these sciences, that are not of this sort, but divine?
ΑΘ.Δοκῶ μέν, ἃς μή τις πράξας μηδὲ αὖ μαθὼν τὸ
818c παράπαν οὐκ ἄν ποτε γένοιτο ἀνθρώποις θεὸς οὐδὲ δαίμων
οὐδὲ ἥρως οἷος δυνατὸς ἀνθρώπων ἐπιμέλειαν σὺν σπουδῇ
ποιεῖσθαι· πολλοῦ δ' ἂν δεήσειεν ἄνθρωπός γε θεῖος
γενέσθαι μήτε ἓν μήτε δύο μήτε τρία μήθ' ὅλως ἄρτια καὶ
περιττὰ δυνάμενος γιγνώσκειν, μηδὲ ἀριθμεῖν τὸ παράπαν
εἰδώς, μηδὲ νύκτα καὶ ἡμέραν διαριθμεῖσθαι δυνατὸς ὤν,
σελήνης δὲ καὶ ἡλίου καὶ τῶν ἄλλων ἄστρων περιφορᾶς
818d ἀπείρως ἔχων. ταῦτ' οὖν δὴ πάντα ὡς μὲν οὐκ ἀναγκαῖά
ἐστι μαθήματα τῷ μέλλοντι σχεδὸν ὁτιοῦν τῶν καλλίστων
μαθημάτων εἴσεσθαι, πολλὴ καὶ μωρία τοῦ διανοήματος·
ποῖα δὲ ἕκαστα τούτων καὶ πόσα καὶ πότε μαθητέον,
καὶ τί μετὰ τίνος καὶ τί χωρὶς τῶν ἄλλων, καὶ πᾶσαν
τὴν τούτων κρᾶσιν, ταῦτά ἐστιν δεῖ λαβόντα ὀρθῶς
πρῶτα, ἐπὶ τἆλλα ἰόντα τούτων ἡγουμένων τῶν μαθημάτων
μανθάνειν. οὕτω γὰρ ἀνάγκη φύσει κατείληφεν,
818e φαμεν οὐδένα θεῶν οὔτε μάχεσθαι τὰ νῦν οὔτε μαχεῖσθαί
ποτε.
Ath.Those, as I believe, which must be practiced and learned by every god, daemon, and hero, if he is to be competent seriously to supervise mankind: a man certainly would be far from becoming godlike if he were incapable of learning the nature of one and of two, and of even and odd numbers in general, and if he knew nothing at all about counting, and could not count even day and night as distinct objects, and if he were ignorant of the circuit of the sun and moon and all the other stars. To suppose, then, that all these studies are not necessary for a man who means to understand almost any single one of the fairest sciences, is a most foolish supposition. The first thing we must grasp correctly is this—which of these branches of study must be learnt, and how many, and at what periods, and which of them in conjunction with which, and which by themselves apart from all others, and the method of combining them; this done, and with these studies as introductory, we may proceed to the learning of the rest. For such is the natural order of procedure as determined by Necessity, against whom, as we declare, no god fights now, nor ever will fight.
ΚΛ.Ἔοικέν γε, ξένε, νῦν οὕτω πως ῥηθέντα ὀρθῶς
εἰρῆσθαι καὶ κατὰ φύσιν λέγεις.
Clin.Yes, Stranger, this account of yours does seem to be in accord with nature, and true.
ΑΘ.Ἔχει μὲν γὰρ οὕτως, Κλεινία, χαλεπὸν δὲ αὐτὰ
προταξάμενον τούτῳ τῷ τρόπῳ νομοθετεῖν· ἀλλ' εἰς ἄλλον,
εἰ δοκεῖ, χρόνον ἀκριβέστερον ἂν νομοθετησαίμεθα.
Ath.That is indeed the truth of the matter, Clinias; but to give legal enactment to this program of ours is difficult. We will, if you agree, enact this more precisely on a later occasion.
ΚΛ.Δοκεῖς ἡμῖν, ξένε, φοβεῖσθαι τὸ τῆς ἡμετέρας
περὶ τῶν τοιούτων ἀπειρίας ἔθος. οὔκουν ὀρθῶς
φοβῇ· πειρῶ δὴ λέγειν μηδὲν ἀποκρυπτόμενος ἕνεκα
τούτων.
Clin.You appear to us, Stranger, to be scared by the neglect of such studies which is the habit in our countries; but you are wrong to be scared. Do not be deterred on that account, but try to proceed with your statement.
819a ΑΘ.Φοβοῦμαι μὲν καὶ ταῦτα σὺ νῦν λέγεις, μᾶλλον
δ' ἔτι δέδοικα τοὺς ἡμμένους μὲν αὐτῶν τούτων τῶν μαθημάτων,
κακῶς δ' ἡμμένους. οὐδαμοῦ γὰρ δεινὸν οὐδὲ
σφοδρὸν ἀπειρία τῶν πάντων οὐδὲ μέγιστον κακόν, ἀλλ'
πολυπειρία καὶ πολυμαθία μετὰ κακῆς ἀγωγῆς γίγνεται
πολὺ τούτων μείζων ζημία.
Ath.I am indeed scared about the habit you mention, but I am still more alarmed about the people who take up these very sciences for study, and do so badly. Complete and absolute ignorance of them is never alarming, nor is it a very great evil; much more mischievous is a wide variety of knowledge and learning combined with bad training.
ΚΛ.Ἀληθῆ λέγεις.
Clin.That is true.
ΑΘ.Τοσάδε τοίνυν ἑκάστων χρὴ φάναι μανθάνειν δεῖν
819b τοὺς ἐλευθέρους, ὅσα καὶ πάμπολυς ἐν Αἰγύπτῳ παίδων
ὄχλος ἅμα γράμμασι μανθάνει. πρῶτον μὲν γὰρ περὶ λογισμοὺς
ἀτεχνῶς παισὶν ἐξηυρημένα μαθήματα μετὰ παιδιᾶς τε
καὶ ἡδονῆς μανθάνειν, μήλων τέ τινων διανομαὶ καὶ στεφάνων
πλείοσιν ἅμα καὶ ἐλάττοσιν ἁρμοττόντων ἀριθμῶν τῶν αὐτῶν,
καὶ πυκτῶν καὶ παλαιστῶν ἐφεδρείας τε καὶ συλλήξεως ἐν
μέρει καὶ ἐφεξῆς καὶ ὡς πεφύκασι γίγνεσθαι. καὶ δὴ καὶ
παίζοντες, φιάλας ἅμα χρυσοῦ καὶ χαλκοῦ καὶ ἀργύρου
819c καὶ τοιούτων τινῶν ἄλλων κεραννύντες, οἱ δὲ καὶ ὅλας πως
διαδιδόντες, ὅπερ εἶπον, εἰς παιδιὰν ἐναρμόττοντες τὰς τῶν
ἀναγκαίων ἀριθμῶν χρήσεις, ὠφελοῦσι τοὺς μανθάνοντας
εἴς τε τὰς τῶν στρατοπέδων τάξεις καὶ ἀγωγὰς καὶ στρατείας
καὶ εἰς οἰκονομίας αὖ, καὶ πάντως χρησιμωτέρους
αὐτοὺς αὑτοῖς καὶ ἐγρηγορότας μᾶλλον τοὺς ἀνθρώπους
ἀπεργάζονται· μετὰ δὲ ταῦτα ἐν ταῖς μετρήσεσιν, ὅσα ἔχει
819d μήκη καὶ πλάτη καὶ βάθη, περὶ ἅπαντα ταῦτα ἐνοῦσάν τινα
φύσει γελοίαν τε καὶ αἰσχρὰν ἄγνοιαν ἐν τοῖς ἀνθρώποις
πᾶσιν, ταύτης ἀπαλλάττουσιν.
Ath.One ought to declare, then, that the freeborn children should learn as much of these subjects as the innumerable crowd of children in Egypt learn along with their letters. First, as regards counting, lessons have been invented for the merest infants to learn, by way of play and fun,—modes of dividing up apples and chaplets, so that the same totals are adjusted to larger and smaller groups, and modes of sorting out boxers and wrestlers, in byes and pairs, taking them alternately or consecutively, in their natural order. Moreover, by way of play, the teachers mix together bowls made of gold, bronze, silver and the like, and others distribute them, as I said, by groups of a single kind, adapting the rules of elementary arithmetic to play; and thus they are of service to the pupils for their future tasks of drilling, leading and marching armies, or of household management, and they render them both more helpful in every way to themselves and more alert. The next step of the teachers is to clear away, by lessons in weights and measures, a certain kind of ignorance, both absurd and disgraceful, which is naturally inherent in all men touching lines, surfaces and solids.
ΚΛ.Ποίαν δὴ καὶ τίνα λέγεις ταύτην;
Clin.What ignorance do you mean, and of what kind is it?
ΑΘ. φίλε Κλεινία, παντάπασί γε μὴν καὶ αὐτὸς
ἀκούσας ὀψέ ποτε τὸ περὶ ταῦτα ἡμῶν πάθος ἐθαύμασα,
καὶ ἔδοξέ μοι τοῦτο οὐκ ἀνθρώπινον ἀλλὰ ὑηνῶν τινων εἶναι
μᾶλλον θρεμμάτων, ᾐσχύνθην τε οὐχ ὑπὲρ ἐμαυτοῦ μόνον,
819e ἀλλὰ καὶ ὑπὲρ ἁπάντων τῶν Ἑλλήνων.
Ath.My dear Clinias, when I was told quite lately of our condition in regard to this matter, I was utterly astounded myself: it seemed to me to be the condition of guzzling swine rather than of human beings, and I was ashamed, not only of myself, but of all the Greek world.
ΚΛ.Τοῦ πέρι; λέγ' ὅτι καὶ φῄς, ξένε.
Clin.Why? Tell us what you mean, Stranger.
ΑΘ.Λέγω δή· μᾶλλον δὲ ἐρωτῶν σοι δείξω. καί μοι
σμικρὸν ἀπόκριναι· γιγνώσκεις που μῆκος;
Ath.I am doing so. But I can explain it better by putting a question. Answer me briefly: you know what a line is?
ΚΛ.Τί μήν;
Clin.Yes.
ΑΘ.Τί δέ; πλάτος;
Ath.And surface?
ΚΛ.Πάντως.
Clin.Certainly.
ΑΘ. καὶ ταῦτα ὅτι δύ' ἐστόν, καὶ τρίτον τούτων βάθος;
Ath.And do you know that these are two things, and that the third thing, next to these, is the solid?
ΚΛ.Πῶς γὰρ οὔ;
Clin.I do.
ΑΘ.Ἆρ' οὖν οὐ δοκεῖ σοι ταῦτα εἶναι πάντα μετρητὰ
πρὸς ἄλληλα;
Ath.Do you not, then, believe that all these are commensurable one with another?
ΚΛ.Ναί.
Clin.Yes.
ΑΘ.Μῆκός τε οἶμαι πρὸς μῆκος, καὶ πλάτος πρὸς
820a πλάτος, καὶ βάθος ὡσαύτως δυνατὸν εἶναι μετρεῖν φύσει.
Ath.And you believe, I suppose, that line is really commensurable with line, surface with surface, and solid with solid?
ΚΛ.Σφόδρα γε.
Clin.Absolutely.
ΑΘ.Εἰ δ' ἔστι μήτε σφόδρα μήτε ἠρέμα δυνατὰ ἔνια, ἀλλὰ
τὰ μέν, τὰ δὲ μή, σὺ δὲ πάντα ἡγῇ, πῶς οἴει πρὸς ταῦτα
διακεῖσθαι;
Ath.But supposing that some of them are neither absolutely nor moderately commensurable, some being commensurable and some not, whereas you regard them all as commensurable,—what do you think of your mental state with respect to them?
ΚΛ.Δῆλον ὅτι φαύλως.
Clin.Evidently it is a sorry state.
ΑΘ.Τί δ' αὖ μῆκός τε καὶ πλάτος πρὸς βάθος, πλάτος
τε καὶ μῆκος πρὸς ἄλληλα; [ὥστε πῶς] ἆρ' οὐ διανοούμεθα
περὶ ταῦτα οὕτως Ἕλληνες πάντες, ὡς δυνατά ἐστι μετρεῖσθαι
πρὸς ἄλληλα ἁμῶς γέ πως;
Ath.Again, as regards the relation of line and surface to solid, or of surface and line to each other—do not all we Greeks imagine that these are somehow commensurable with one another?
820b ΚΛ.Παντάπασι μὲν οὖν.
Clin.Most certainly.
ΑΘ.Εἰ δ' ἔστιν αὖ μηδαμῶς μηδαμῇ δυνατά, πάντες δ',
ὅπερ εἶπον, Ἕλληνες διανοούμεθα ὡς δυνατά, μῶν οὐκ ἄξιον
ὑπὲρ πάντων αἰσχυνθέντα εἰπεῖν πρὸς αὐτούς· βέλτιστοι
τῶν Ἑλλήνων, ἓν ἐκείνων τοῦτ' ἐστὶν ὧν ἔφαμεν αἰσχρὸν
μὲν γεγονέναι τὸ μὴ ἐπίστασθαι, τὸ δ' ἐπίστασθαι τἀναγκαῖα
οὐδὲν πάνυ καλόν;
Ath.But if they cannot be thus measured by any way or means, while, as I said, all we Greeks imagine that they can, are we not right in being ashamed for them all, and saying to them, O most noble Greeks, this is one of those necessary things which we said it is disgraceful not to know, although there is nothing very grand in knowing such things.
ΚΛ.Πῶς δ' οὔ;
Clin.Of course.
ΑΘ.Καὶ πρὸς τούτοις γε ἄλλα ἔστιν τούτων συγγενῆ,
820c ἐν οἷς αὖ πολλὰ ἁμαρτήματα ἐκείνων ἀδελφὰ ἡμῖν ἐγγίγνεται
τῶν ἁμαρτημάτων.
Ath.In addition to these there are other matters, closely related to them, in which we find many errors arising that are nearly akin to the errors mentioned.
ΚΛ.Ποῖα δή;
Clin.What are they?
ΑΘ.Τὰ τῶν μετρητῶν τε καὶ ἀμέτρων πρὸς ἄλληλα ᾗτινι
φύσει γέγονεν. ταῦτα γὰρ δὴ σκοποῦντα διαγιγνώσκειν
ἀναγκαῖον παντάπασιν εἶναι φαῦλον, προβάλλοντά τε
ἀλλήλοις ἀεί, διατριβὴν τῆς πεττείας πολὺ χαριεστέραν
πρεσβυτῶν διατρίβοντα, φιλονικεῖν ἐν ταῖς τούτων ἀξίαισι
σχολαῖς.
Ath.Problems concerning the essential nature of the commensurable and the incommensurable. For students who are not to be absolutely worthless it is necessary to examine these and to distinguish the two kinds, and, by proposing such problems one to another, to compete in a game that is worthy of them,—for this is a much more refined pastime than draughts for old men.
820d ΚΛ.Ἴσως· ἔοικεν γοῦν τε πεττεία καὶ ταῦτα ἀλλήλων
τὰ μαθήματα οὐ πάμπολυ κεχωρίσθαι.
Clin.No doubt. And, after all, draughts and these studies do not seem to be so very far apart.
ΑΘ.Ταῦτα τοίνυν ἐγὼ μέν, Κλεινία, φημὶ τοὺς νέους
δεῖν μανθάνειν· καὶ γὰρ οὔτε βλαβερὰ οὔτε χαλεπά ἐστιν,
μετὰ δὲ παιδιᾶς ἅμα μανθανόμενα ὠφελήσει μέν, βλάψει δὲ
ἡμῖν τὴν πόλιν οὐδέν. εἰ δέ τις ἄλλως λέγει, ἀκουστέον.
Ath.I assert, then, Clinias, that these subjects must be learnt by the young; for they are, in truth, neither harmful nor hard, and when learnt by way of play they will do no damage at all to our State, but will do it good. Should anyone disagree, however, we must listen to him.
ΚΛ.Πῶς δ' οὔ;
Clin.Of course.
ΑΘ.Ἀλλὰ μὴν ἂν οὕτω ταῦτα ἔχοντα φαίνηται, δῆλον
ὡς ἐγκρινοῦμεν αὐτά, μὴ ταύτῃ δὲ φαινόμενα ἔχειν ἀποκριθήσεται.
Ath.Well then, if this is clearly the case, obviously we shall adopt these subjects; but if it seems clearly to be otherwise, we shall rule them out.
820e ΚΛ.Δῆλον· τί μήν;
Clin.Yes, obviously.
ΑΘ.Οὐκοῦν νῦν, ξένε, κείσθω ταῦτα ὡς ὄντα τῶν
δεόντων μαθημάτων, ἵνα μὴ διάκενα ἡμῖν τὰ τῶν νόμων;
κείσθω μέντοι καθάπερ ἐνέχυρα λύσιμα ἐκ τῆς ἄλλης πολιτείας,
ἐὰν τοὺς θέντας ἡμᾶς καὶ τοὺς θεμένους ὑμᾶς
μηδαμῶς φιλοφρονῆται.
Ath.Shall we not, then, lay these down as necessary subjects of instruction, so that there may be no gap in our code of laws? Yet we ought to lay them down provisionally—like pledges capable of redemption—apart from the rest of our constitution, in case they fail to satisfy either us who enact them or you for whom they are enacted.
ΚΛ.Δικαίαν λέγεις τὴν θέσιν.
Clin.Yes, that is the right way to lay them down.
ΑΘ.Ἄστρων δὴ τὸ μετὰ ταῦτα ὅρα τὴν μάθησιν τοῖς
νέοις, ἂν ἡμᾶς ἀρέσκῃ λεχθεῖσα καὶ τοὐναντίον.
Ath.Consider next whether or not we approve of the children learning astronomy.
ΚΛ.Λέγε μόνον.
Clin.Just tell us your opinion.
ΑΘ.Καὶ μὴν θαῦμά γε περὶ αὐτά ἐστιν μέγα καὶ οὐδαμῶς
οὐδαμῇ ἀνεκτόν.
Ath.About this there is a very strange fact—indeed, quite intolerable.
821a ΚΛ.Τὸ ποῖον δή;
Clin.What is that?
ΑΘ.Τὸν μέγιστον θεὸν καὶ ὅλον τὸν κόσμον φαμὲν οὔτε
ζητεῖν δεῖν οὔτε πολυπραγμονεῖν τὰς αἰτίας ἐρευνῶνταςοὐ
γὰρ οὐδ' ὅσιον εἶναιτὸ δὲ ἔοικεν πᾶν τούτου τοὐναντίον
γιγνόμενον ὀρθῶς ἂν γίγνεσθαι.
Ath.We commonly assert that men ought not to enquire concerning the greatest god and about the universe, nor busy themselves in searching out their causes, since it is actually impious to do so; whereas the right course, in all probability, is exactly the opposite.
ΚΛ.Πῶς εἶπες;
Clin.Explain yourself.
ΑΘ.Παράδοξον μὲν τὸ λεγόμενον, καὶ οὐκ ἂν πρεσβύταις
τις οἰηθείη πρέπειν· τὸ δὲ ἐπειδάν τίς τι καλόν τε οἰηθῇ
καὶ ἀληθὲς μάθημα εἶναι καὶ πόλει συμφέρον καὶ τῷ θεῷ
821b παντάπασι φίλον, οὐδενὶ δὴ τρόπῳ δυνατόν ἐστιν ἔτι μὴ
φράζειν.
Ath.My statement sounds paradoxical, and it might be thought to be unbecoming in an old man; but the fact is that, when a man believes that a science is fair and true and beneficial to the State and altogether well-pleasing to God, he cannot possibly refrain any longer from declaring it.
ΚΛ.Εἰκότα λέγεις· ἀλλ' ἄστρων πέρι μάθημα τί τοιοῦτον
ἀνευρήσομεν;
Clin.That is reasonable; but what science of this kind shall we find on the subject of stars?
ΑΘ. ἀγαθοί, καταψευδόμεθα νῦν ὡς ἔπος εἰπεῖν
Ἕλληνες πάντες μεγάλων θεῶν, Ἡλίου τε ἅμα καὶ Σελήνης.
Ath.At present, my good sirs, nearly all we Greeks say what is false about those mighty deities, the Sun and Moon.
ΚΛ.Τὸ ποῖον δὴ ψεῦδος;
Clin.What is the falsehood?
ΑΘ.Φαμὲν αὐτὰ οὐδέποτε τὴν αὐτὴν ὁδὸν ἰέναι, καὶ ἄλλ'
ἄττα ἄστρα μετὰ τούτων, ἐπονομάζοντες πλανητὰ αὐτά.
Ath.We assert that they, and some other stars along with them, never travel along the same path; and we call them planets.
821c ΚΛ.Νὴ τὸν Δία, ξένε, ἀληθὲς τοῦτο λέγεις· ἐν γὰρ
δὴ τῷ βίῳ πολλάκις ἑώρακα καὶ αὐτὸς τόν τε Ἑωσφόρον καὶ
τὸν Ἕσπερον καὶ ἄλλους τινὰς οὐδέποτε ἰόντας εἰς τὸν αὐτὸν
δρόμον ἀλλὰ πάντῃ πλανωμένους, τὸν δὲ ἥλιόν που καὶ
σελήνην δρῶντας ταῦθ' ἀεὶ πάντες συνεπιστάμεθα.
Clin.Yes, by Zeus, Stranger, that is true; for I, during my life, have often noticed how Phosphorus and Hesperus and other stars never travel on the same course, but wander all ways; but as to the Sun and Moon, we all know that they are constantly doing this.
ΑΘ.Ταῦτ' ἔστι τοίνυν, Μέγιλλέ τε καὶ Κλεινία, νῦν
δή φημι δεῖν περὶ θεῶν τῶν κατ' οὐρανὸν τούς γε ἡμετέρους
821d πολίτας τε καὶ τοὺς νέους τὸ μέχρι τοσούτου μαθεῖν περὶ
ἁπάντων τούτων, μέχρι τοῦ μὴ βλασφημεῖν περὶ αὐτά,
εὐφημεῖν δὲ ἀεὶ θύοντάς τε καὶ ἐν εὐχαῖς εὐχομένους
εὐσεβῶς.
Ath.It is precisely for this reason, Megillus and Clinias, that I now assert that our citizens and our children ought to learn so much concerning all these facts about the gods of Heaven as to enable them not to blaspheme about them, but always to speak piously both at sacrifices and when they pray reverently at prayers.
ΚΛ.Τοῦτο μὲν ὀρθόν, εἴ γε πρῶτον μὲν δυνατόν ἐστιν
λέγεις μαθεῖν· εἶτα, εἰ μὴ λέγομέν τι περὶ αὐτῶν ὀρθῶς
νῦν, μαθόντες δὲ λέξομεν, συγχωρῶ κἀγὼ τό γε τοσοῦτον
καὶ τοιοῦτον ὂν μαθητέον εἶναι. ταῦτ' οὖν ὡς ἔχοντά ἐσθ'
οὕτω, πειρῶ σὺ μὲν ἐξηγεῖσθαι πάντως, ἡμεῖς δὲ συνέπεσθαί
σοι μανθάνοντες.
Clin.You are right, provided that, in the first place, it is possible to learn the subject you mention; and provided also that learning will make us correct any mistakes we may be making about them now,—then I, too, agree that a subject of such importance should be learned. This being so, do you make every effort to expound the matter, and we will endeavor to follow you and learn.
821e ΑΘ.Ἀλλ' ἔστι μὲν οὐ ῥᾴδιον λέγω μαθεῖν, οὐδ' αὖ
παντάπασι χαλεπόν, οὐδέ γέ τινος χρόνου παμπόλλου.
τεκμήριον δέ· ἐγὼ τούτων οὔτε νέος οὔτε πάλαι ἀκηκοὼς
σφῷν ἂν νῦν οὐκ ἐν πολλῷ χρόνῳ δηλῶσαι δυναίμην. καίτοι
χαλεπά γε ὄντα οὐκ ἄν ποτε οἷός τ' ἦν δηλοῦν τηλικούτοις
οὖσι τηλικοῦτος.
Ath.Well, the matter I speak of is not an easy one to learn; nor yet is it altogether difficult and demanding very prolonged study. In proof of this—although I was told of it neither in the days of my youth nor long ago, I may be able to explain it to you in a comparatively short time. Whereas, if it had been a difficult subject, I should never have been able to explain it to you at all—I at my age to you at yours.
ΚΛ.Ἀληθῆ λέγεις. ἀλλὰ τί καὶ φῂς τοῦτο τὸ μάθημα
822a θαυμαστὸν μὲν λέγεις, προσῆκον δ' αὖ μαθεῖν τοῖς νέοις,
οὐ γιγνώσκειν δὲ ἡμᾶς; πειρῶ περὶ αὐτοῦ τό γε τοσοῦτον
φράζειν ὡς σαφέστατα.
Clin.Very true. But what is this science which you describe as marvellous and fitting for the young to learn, and which we are ignorant about? Do try to tell us thus much, at least, about it, with all possible clearness,
ΑΘ.Πειρατέον. οὐ γάρ ἐστι τοῦτο, ἄριστοι, τὸ δόγμα
ὀρθὸν περὶ σελήνης τε καὶ ἡλίου καὶ τῶν ἄλλων ἄστρων, ὡς
ἄρα πλανᾶταί ποτε, πᾶν δὲ τοὐναντίον ἔχει τούτουτὴν αὐτὴν
γὰρ αὐτῶν ὁδὸν ἕκαστον καὶ οὐ πολλὰς ἀλλὰ μίαν ἀεὶ κύκλῳ
διεξέρχεται, φαίνεται δὲ πολλὰς φερόμενοντὸ δὲ τάχιστον
αὐτῶν ὂν βραδύτατον οὐκ ὀρθῶς αὖ δοξάζεται, τὸ δ' ἐναντίον
822b ἐναντίως. ταῦτ' οὖν εἰ πέφυκεν μὲν οὕτως, ἡμεῖς δὲ μὴ
ταύτῃ δόξομεν, εἰ μὲν ἐν Ὀλυμπίᾳ θεόντων ἵππων οὕτως
δολιχοδρόμων ἀνδρῶν διενοούμεθα πέρι, καὶ προσηγορεύομεν
τὸν τάχιστον μὲν ὡς βραδύτατον, τὸν δὲ βραδύτατον ὡς
τάχιστον, ἐγκώμιά τε ποιοῦντες ᾔδομεν τὸν ἡττώμενον νενικηκότα,
οὔτε ὀρθῶς ἂν οὔτ' οἶμαι προσφιλῶς τοῖς δρομεῦσιν
ἡμᾶς ἂν τὰ ἐγκώμια προσάπτειν ἀνθρώποις οὖσιν· νῦν δὲ δὴ
822c περὶ θεοὺς τὰ αὐτὰ ταῦτα ἐξαμαρτανόντων ἡμῶν, ἆρ' οὐκ
οἰόμεθα <> γελοῖόν τε καὶ οὐκ ὀρθὸν ἐκεῖ γιγνόμενον ἦν ἂν
τότε, νῦν ἐνταυθοῖ καὶ ἐν τούτοισι γίγνεσθαι γελοῖον μὲν
οὐδαμῶς, οὐ μὴν οὐδὲ θεοφιλές γε, ψευδῆ φήμην ἡμῶν κατὰ
θεῶν ὑμνούντων.
Ath.I must try. The opinion, my friends, that the Sun and Moon and the rest of the stars wander is not correct; the truth is precisely the opposite: each of them always travels in a circle one and the same path,—not many paths, although it appears to move along many paths; and the quickest of the stars is wrongly opined to be the slowest, and vice versa. If these are the real facts and we imagine otherwise,—well, suppose we held a similar notion about horses racing at Olympia, or about long-distance runners, and proclaimed the quickest to be slowest and the slowest quickest, and sang chants lauding the loser as the winner, why, then, the laudations we bestowed on the runners would be neither right nor acceptable, though they were but mortal men. But in the present case, when we commit the same error about gods, do we not think that what would have been ludicrous and wrong there and then is, here and now and in dealing with this subject, by no means ludicrous and assuredly not pleasing to the gods, when concerning gods we repeat a tale that is false?
ΚΛ.Ἀληθέστατα, εἴπερ γε οὕτω ταῦτ' ἐστίν.
Clin.Very true, if the facts are as you say.
ΑΘ.Οὐκοῦν ἂν μὲν δείξωμεν οὕτω ταῦτ' ἔχοντα, μαθητέα
μέχρι γε τούτου τὰ τοιαῦτα πάντα, μὴ δειχθέντων δὲ ἐατέον;
καὶ ταῦτα ἡμῖν οὕτω συγκείσθω;
Ath.Then, if we demonstrate that they really are so, shall all these subjects be learnt up to the point mentioned, and, failing that demonstration, be left alone? Is that to be our agreement?
822d ΚΛ.Πάνυ μὲν οὖν.
Clin.Certainly.
ΑΘ.Ἤδη τοίνυν χρὴ φάναι τέλος ἔχειν τά γε παιδείας
μαθημάτων πέρι νόμιμα· περὶ δὲ θήρας ὡσαύτως διανοηθῆναι
χρὴ καὶ περὶ ἁπάντων ὁπόσα τοιαῦτα. κινδυνεύει γὰρ δὴ
νομοθέτῃ τὸ προσταττόμενον ἐπὶ μεῖζον εἶναι τοῦ νόμους
θέντα ἀπηλλάχθαι, ἕτερον δέ τι πρὸς τοῖς νόμοις εἶναι
μεταξύ τι νουθετήσεώς τε πεφυκὸς ἅμα καὶ νόμων, δὴ
822e πολλάκις ἡμῶν ἐμπέπτωκεν τοῖς λόγοις, οἷον περὶ τὴν τῶν
σφόδρα νέων παίδων τροφήν· οὐ γὰρ ἄρρητά φαμεν εἶναι,
λέγοντές τε αὐτά, ὡς νόμους οἴεσθαι τιθεμένους εἶναι πολλῆς
ἀνοίας γέμειν. γεγραμμένων δὴ ταύτῃ τῶν νόμων τε καὶ
ὅλης τῆς πολιτείας, οὐ τέλεος τοῦ διαφέροντος πολίτου πρὸς
ἀρετὴν γίγνεται ἔπαινος, ὅταν αὐτόν τις φῇ τὸν ὑπηρετήσαντα
τοῖς νόμοις ἄριστα καὶ πειθόμενον μάλιστα, τοῦτον εἶναι τὸν
ἀγαθόν· τελεώτερον δὲ ὧδε εἰρημένον, ὡς ἄρα ὃς ἂν τοῖς τοῦ
νομοθέτου νομοθετοῦντός τε καὶ ἐπαινοῦντος καὶ ψέγοντος
823a πειθόμενος γράμμασιν διεξέλθῃ τὸν βίον ἄκρατον. οὗτος
τε λόγος ὀρθότατος εἰς ἔπαινον πολίτου, τόν τε νομοθέτην
ὄντως δεῖ μὴ μόνον γράφειν τοὺς νόμους, πρὸς δὲ τοῖς νόμοις,
ὅσα καλὰ αὐτῷ δοκεῖ καὶ μὴ καλὰ εἶναι, νόμοις ἐμπεπλεγμένα
γράφειν, τὸν δὲ ἄκρον πολίτην μηδὲν ἧττον ταῦτα ἐμπεδοῦν
τὰ ταῖς ζημίαις ὑπὸ νόμων κατειλημμένα. τὸ δὲ δὴ
παρὸν ἡμῖν τὰ νῦν <εἰ> οἷον μάρτυρα ἐπαγόμεθα, δηλοῖμεν ἂν
823b βουλόμεθα μᾶλλον. θήρα γὰρ πάμπολύ τι πρᾶγμά ἐστι,
περιειλημμένον ὀνόματι νῦν σχεδὸν ἑνί. πολλὴ μὲν γὰρ
τῶν ἐνύδρων, πολλὴ δὲ τῶν πτηνῶν, πάμπολυ δὲ καὶ τὸ
περὶ τὰ πεζὰ θηρεύματα, οὐ μόνον θηρίων, ἀλλὰ καὶ τὴν τῶν
ἀνθρώπων ἀξίαν ἐννοεῖν θήραν, τήν τε κατὰ πόλεμον, πολλὴ
δὲ καὶ κατὰ φιλίαν θηρεύουσα, μὲν ἔπαινον, δὲ ψόγον
ἔχει· καὶ κλωπεῖαι καὶ λῃστῶν καὶ στρατοπέδων στρατοπέδοις
823c θῆραι. θήρας δὲ πέρι τιθέντι τῷ νομοθέτῃ τοὺς
νόμους οὔτε μὴ δηλοῦν ταῦθ' οἷόν τε, οὔτε ἐπὶ πᾶσιν τάξεις
καὶ ζημίας ἐπιτιθέντα ἀπειλητικὰ νόμιμα τιθέναι. τί δὴ
δραστέον περὶ τὰ τοιαῦτα; τὸν μέν, τὸν νομοθέτην, ἐπαινέσαι
καὶ ψέξαι χρεὼν τὰ περὶ θήρας πρὸς τοὺς τῶν νέων πόνους
τε καὶ ἐπιτηδεύματα, τὸν δ' αὖ νέον ἀκούσαντα πείθεσθαι,
καὶ μήθ' ἡδονὴν μήτε πόνον ἐξείργειν αὐτόν, τῶν δὲ περὶ
ἕκαστα ἀπειληθέντων μετὰ ζημίας καὶ νομοθετηθέντων, τὰ
823d μετ' ἐπαίνου ῥηθέντα μᾶλλον τιμᾶν καὶ προσταχθέντα
ἀποτελεῖν.
Τούτων δὴ προρρηθέντων, ἑξῆς ἂν γίγνοιτο ἔμμετρος
ἔπαινος θήρας καὶ ψόγος, ἥτις μὲν βελτίους ἀποτελεῖ τὰς
ψυχὰς τῶν νέων ἐπαινοῦντος, ψέγοντος δὲ τἀναντία.
λέγωμεν τοίνυν τὸ μετὰ τοῦτο ἑξῆς προσαγορεύοντες δι'
εὐχῆς τοὺς νέους· φίλοι, εἴθ' ὑμᾶς μήτε τις ἐπιθυμία μήτ'
ἔρως τῆς περὶ θάλατταν θήρας ποτὲ λάβοι μηδὲ ἀγκιστρείας
823e μηδ' ὅλως τῆς τῶν ἐνύδρων ζῴων, μήτε ἐγρηγορόσιν μήτε
εὕδουσιν κύρτοις ἀργὸν θήραν διαπονουμένοις. μηδ' αὖ ἄγρας
ἀνθρώπων κατὰ θάλατταν λῃστείας τε ἵμερος ἐπελθὼν ὑμῖν
θηρευτὰς ὠμοὺς καὶ ἀνόμους ἀποτελοῖ· κλωπείας δ' ἐν χώρᾳ
καὶ πόλει μηδὲ εἰς τὸν ἔσχατον ἐπέλθοι νοῦν ἅψασθαι. μηδ'
αὖ πτηνῶν θήρας αἱμύλος ἔρως οὐ σφόδρα ἐλευθέριος ἐπέλθοι
824a τινὶ νέων. πεζῶν δὴ μόνον θήρευσίς τε καὶ ἄγρα λοιπὴ τοῖς
παρ' ἡμῖν ἀθληταῖς, ὧν μὲν τῶν εὑδόντων αὖ κατὰ μέρη,
νυκτερεία κληθεῖσα, ἀργῶν ἀνδρῶν, οὐκ ἀξία ἐπαίνου, οὐδ'
ἧττον διαπαύματα πόνων ἔχουσα, ἄρκυσίν τε καὶ πάγαις ἀλλ'
οὐ φιλοπόνου ψυχῆς νίκῃ χειρουμένων τὴν ἄγριον τῶν
θηρίων ῥώμην· μόνη δὴ πᾶσιν λοιπὴ καὶ ἀρίστη τῶν
τετραπόδων ἵπποις καὶ κυσὶν καὶ τοῖς ἑαυτῶν θήρα σώμασιν,
ὧν ἁπάντων κρατοῦσιν δρόμοις καὶ πληγαῖς καὶ βολαῖς
αὐτόχειρες θηρεύοντες, ὅσοις ἀνδρείας τῆς θείας ἐπιμελές.
Τούτων δὴ πάντων ἔπαινος μὲν πέρι καὶ ψόγος διειρημένος
ἂν εἴη λόγος, νόμος δὲ ὅδε· Τούτους μηδεὶς τοὺς ἱεροὺς
ὄντως θηρευτὰς κωλυέτω ὅπου καὶ ὅπῃπερ ἂν ἐθέλωσιν κυνηγετεῖν,
νυκτερευτὴν δὲ ἄρκυσιν καὶ πλεκταῖς πιστὸν μηδεὶς
μηδέποτε ἐάσῃ μηδαμοῦ θηρεῦσαι· τὸν ὀρνιθευτὴν δὲ ἐν ἀργοῖς
μὲν καὶ ὄρεσιν μὴ κωλυέτω, ἐν ἐργασίμοις δὲ καὶ ἱεροῖς
ἀγρίοις ἐξειργέτω προστυγχάνων, ἐνυγροθηρευτὴν δέ, πλὴν
ἐν λιμέσιν καὶ ἱεροῖς ποταμοῖς τε καὶ ἕλεσι καὶ λίμναις,
ἐν τοῖς ἄλλοις δὲ ἐξέστω θηρεύειν, μὴ χρώμενον ὀπῶν
ἀναθολώσει μόνον.
Νῦν οὖν ἤδη πάντα χρὴ φάναι τέλος ἔχειν τά γε παιδείας
πέρι νόμιμα.
Ath.We may now say that our regulations concerning subjects of education have been completed. The subject of hunting, and similar pursuits, must now be dealt with in a similar manner. The duty laid upon the lawgiver probably goes further than the bare task of enacting laws: in addition to laws, there is something else which falls naturally between advice and law— a thing which has often cropped up in the course of our discussion, as, for example, in connection with the nurture of young children: such matters, we say, should not be left unregulated, but it would be most foolish to regard those regulations as enacted laws. When, then, the laws and the whole constitution have been thus written down, our praise of the citizen who is preeminent for virtue will not be complete when we say that the virtuous man is he who is the best servant of the laws and the most obedient;

a more complete statement will be this,—that the virtuous man is he who passes through life consistently obeying the written rules of the lawgiver, as given in his legislation, approbation and disapprobation. This statement is the most correct way of praising the citizen; and in this way, moreover, the lawgiver must not only write down the laws, but in addition to the laws, and combined with them, he must write down his decisions as to what things are good and what bad; and the perfect citizen must abide by these decisions no less than by the rules enforced by legal penalties. The subject now before us we may adduce as a witness to show more clearly what we mean. Hunting is a large and complex matter, all of which is now generally embraced under this single name. Of the hunting of water-animals there are many varieties, and many of the hunting of fowls; and very many varieties also of hunts of land-animals—not of beasts only, but also, mark you, of men, both in war and often, too, in friendship, a kind of hunt that is partly approved and partly disapproved; and then there are robberies and hunts carried on by pirates and by bands. When the lawgiver is making laws about hunting, he is necessarily bound to make this point clear, and to lay down minatory directions by imposing regulations and penalties for all these kinds. What then ought to be done about these matters? The lawgiver, for his part, will be right in praising or blaming hunting with an eye to the toils and pursuits of the young; and the young man will be right in listening and obeying, and in allowing neither pleasure nor toil to hinder him, and in holding in greater respect the orders that are sanctioned by praise, and carrying them out, rather than those which are enacted by law under threat of penalties. After these prefatory observations there will follow adequate praise and blame of hunting—praise of the kind which renders the souls of the young better, and blame of the kind which does the opposite. Our next step will be to address the young people with prayer—O friends, would that you might never be seized with any desire or craving for hunting by sea, or for angling, or for ever pursuing water-animals with creels that do your lazy hunting for you, whether you sleep or wake.

And may no longing for man-hunting by sea and piracy overtake you, and render you cruel and lawless hunters; and may the thought of committing robbery in country or city not so much as cross your minds. Neither may there seize upon any of the young the crafty craving for snaring birds— no very gentlemanly pursuit! Thus there is left for our athletes only the hunting and capture of land-animals. Of this branch of hunting, the kind called night-stalking, which is the job of lazy men who sleep in turn, is one that deserves no praise; nor does that kind deserve praise in which there are intervals of rest from toil, when men master the wild force of beasts by nets and traps instead of doing so by the victorious might of a toil-loving soul. Accordingly, the only kind left for all, and the best kind, is the hunting of quadrupeds with horses and dogs and the hunter’s own limbs, when men hunt in person, and subdue all the creatures by means of their own running, striking and shooting—all the men, that is to say, who cultivate the courage that is divine. Concerning the whole of this subject, the exposition we have now given will serve as the praise and blame; and the law will run thus,—None shall hinder these truly sacred hunters from hunting wheresoever and howsoever they wish; but the night-trapper who trusts to nets and snares no one shall ever allow to hunt anywhere. The fowler no man shall hinder on fallow land or mountain; but he that finds him on tilled fields or on sacred glebes shall drive him off. The fisherman shall be allowed to hunt in all waters except havens and sacred rivers and pools and lakes, but only on condition that he makes no use of muddying juices. So now, at last, we may say that all our laws about education are complete.

ΚΛ.Καλῶς ἂν λέγοις.
Clin.You may rightly say so.